# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 161
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3201 "2014-09-25T20:29:04Z")
I like how angry you are that I brought to your attention that you said the exact same thing let creationists say. Your misplaced anger amuses me. You might want to take some medication for that. It can’t be good on your blood pressure. Of course, the smartest thing to do if you don’t wish to be confused with creationists is to not steal their material. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3202 "2014-09-25T23:58:09Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I like how angry you are that I brought to your attention that you said the exact same thing let creationists say. Your misplaced anger amuses me. You might want to take some medication for that. It can’t be good on your blood pressure. > > Of course, the smartest thing to do if you don’t wish to be confused with creationists is to not steal their material. Dealing with stupid people—and you are a very stupid person—is frustrating. I’ll just suggest that you reread my last post over again. And again. And again. And again. Don’t stop until you comprehend why what you said earlier is dumb as fuck. Digest the simple example I gave. I made it simple so even a simpleton like you could likely get it. Though I do fully accept the possibility that I’m giving you to credit. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3203 "2014-09-26T04:29:28Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Where in the article does it state that human activity is responsible for recent warming? In the section quoted right below the portion you quoted: > [@](#): > > **Nor is the crucial question whether humans are influencing the climate. That is no hoax** : There is little doubt in the scientific community that continually growing amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, due largely to carbon-dioxide emissions from the conventional use of fossil fuels, are influencing the climate. There is also little doubt that the carbon dioxide will persist in the atmosphere for several centuries. **The impact today of human activity appears to be comparable to the intrinsic, natural variability of the climate system itself**. In case you are having trouble parsing, he is saying that the fact that humans are changing the climate are settled. That greenhouse gasses from fossil fuels are largely the mechanism, and the that the effect of humans is comparable in size to the natural variation. That last bit is some what vague. Natural variation has a huge range, depending on the causes and conditions. As I said before, he has moved on past full denial, past denial of human contribution, all the way to denial that we should ever try to do anything about it. I suspect the next step would be to claim that it is too late to do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3204 "2014-09-26T08:47:54Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > The impact today of human activity appears to be comparable to the intrinsic, natural variability of the climate system itself. So in your view, this is equivalent to saying that human activity is responsible for recent warming? > [@](#): > > As I said before, he has moved on past full denial, Are you saying that in the past, he denied that global surface temperatures had increased? If so, please quote cite and link him. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3205 "2014-09-26T12:26:55Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > So in your view, this is equivalent to saying that human activity is responsible for recent warming? In my view, he is saying it as gently as possible. Think about tides. They occur naturally and we can deal with them. If somehow human activity has an effect comparable to the natural rhythmic change in sea level, that would double the effect. That would be catastrophic. Taken at its most optimistic, his statement implies that we will see double the change in global average temperature. > [@](#): > > Are you saying that in the past, he denied that global surface temperatures had increased? If so, please quote cite and link him. I honestly don’t know or care. The WSJ has been solidly denialist in the past. The fact that they are now publishing opinion pieces that admit that average temperature is increasing and that it is due to human action is the take away from this. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3206 "2014-09-26T14:17:14Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > In my view, he is saying it as gently as possible. Think about tides. They occur naturally and we can deal with them. If somehow human activity has an effect comparable to the natural rhythmic change in sea level, that would double the effect. That would be catastrophic. Umm, we are talking about temperature increases which have already taken place. It’s a bit of a stretch, but if you read the piece to mean that human influences are the same as natural influences, then perhaps one can infer him to be saying that recent warming has been roughly halfway caused by mankind’s activities. But there’s no reasonable way to read it the way you do – as an admission that recent warming is the result of human activity, period. > [@](#): > > I honestly don’t know or care. The WSJ has been solidly denialist in the past. Can you quote the WSJ where it has flat out denied an increase in global surface temperatures over the 20th century? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3207 "2014-09-26T22:48:54Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > . . . Can you quote the WSJ where it has flat out denied an increase in global surface temperatures over the 20th century? This is amusingly “meta.” Now we’re encountering denialism regarding the denialism. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3208 "2014-09-26T23:07:18Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > This is amusingly “meta.” Now we’re encountering denialism regarding the denialism. Better to call it skepticism regarding a claim of denialism. Do you happen to have a quote, cite, and link to back up **Strassia** ’s apparent claim? And do you seriously call it “denialism” to politely request that people provide actual evidence to back up their claims? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3209 "2014-09-27T11:39:23Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > And do you seriously call it “denialism” to politely request that people provide actual evidence to back up their claims? Of course it is. It’s denialism to question anything regarding global warming. It’s denialism to ask what somebody means by it. Or what predictions global warming theory makes. Or to look at the actual data, the temperature records. Why would anyone want to actually see the data? They must be deniers. Denialism, it’s the new buzzword. Just tar everyone with the same brush, that’s how science works. Now hand over some money. Because you are killing the world. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3210 "2014-09-27T12:48:05Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Of course it is. > > It’s denialism to question anything regarding global warming. > > It’s denialism to ask what somebody means by it. Or what predictions global warming theory makes. Apparently so, but I decided to take a look myself at what’s been said in the Wall Street Journal. And found the following: From an opinion piece in 2006: > [@](#): > > Most of the climate community has agreed since 1988 that global mean temperatures have increased on the order of one degree Fahrenheit over the past century, having risen significantly from about 1919 to 1940, decreased between 1940 and the early '70s, increased again until the '90s, and remaining essentially flat since 1998. From an opinion piece in 1997: > [@](#): > > there are three basic questions that should be raised about global warming: > \*How much warming is likely to occur and when? > \*What are the likely effects of this warming and the associated build up of greenhouse > gases? > \*What policies should be used to deal with negative effects? > Answers are not easy to come by. Much public discussions assumes that there will be a > great deal of warming, that it will be very harmful and that almost any level of cost should be > incurred to avert it. None of this has been proved to be true. So it looks to me like **Strassia** has simply set up a nice juicy strawman to attack. But I will wait a bit to see if he has any evidence to back up what he is saying. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3211 "2014-09-27T17:42:04Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > But I will wait a bit to see if he has any evidence to back up what he is saying. In my vast experience, it will be a very very loooong wait ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3212 "2014-09-27T22:28:39Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > In my vast experience, it will be a very very loooong wait Yes, I have a feeling he will either disappear or pretend he said something different from what he actually said. But we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3213 "2014-09-28T05:49:51Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > It’s denialism to question anything regarding global warming. Martyr card. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > It’s denialism to ask what somebody means by it. Or what predictions global warming theory makes. Global warming theory says its going to get warmer and humans contribute to that. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > Or to look at the actual data, the temperature records. Why would anyone want to actually see the data? They must be deniers. Because it’s not possible to come to different conclusions from the same data, let alone cherry picked versions. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > Denialism, it’s the new buzzword. Just tar everyone with the same brush, that’s how science works. Wah. Coming from the guy that claims everyone on the other side is an alarmist/warmer. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > Now hand over some money. Because you are killing the world. There are economic costs to change. But excellent full body foam at the mouth. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3214 "2014-09-28T10:44:14Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Global warming theory says its going to get warmer and humans contribute to that. So if there’s a modest increase in temperature with minimal adverse consequences; and the human contribution to that increase is minimal, like 5%, then it’s consistent with “global warming theory”? If mankind’s CO2 emissions have no effect on global surface temperatures, but human changes in land use cause modest warming, that would be consistent with “global warming theory”? > [@](#): > > Martyr card. What exactly is your point here? Just a few posts ago, I politely asked another poster to back up his claims and was accused of “denialism.” Is it somehow illegitimate to point out how ridiculous such an accusation is? ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3215 "2014-09-28T11:56:06Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > So if there’s a modest increase in temperature with minimal adverse consequences; and the human contribution to that increase is minimal, like 5%, then it’s consistent with “global warming theory”? > > If mankind’s CO2 emissions have no effect on global surface temperatures, but human changes in land use cause modest warming, that would be consistent with “global warming theory”? It’s going to get warmer and humans contribute. It doesn’t have to get more specific than that. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3216 "2014-09-28T12:26:54Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > It’s going to get warmer and humans contribute. Ok, so your answer to both questions is “yes.” > [@](#): > > It doesn’t have to get more specific than that. That depends on the point of the discussion. There are people out there who seem to be arguing that because of global warming, there need to be large reductions in CO2 emissions as a matter of public policy. As you have defined “global warming,” such reductions are not necessary or called for. And by the way, would it surprise you to learn that Richard Lindzen has agreed that mankind’s activities are likely to contribute to warming? > [@](#): > > Martyr card. What exactly is your point here? Just a few posts ago, I politely asked another poster to back up his claims and was accused of “denialism.” Is it somehow illegitimate to point out how ridiculous such an accusation is? ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3217 "2014-09-28T13:03:45Z")
> [@Mithras](#): > > We got our act together and stopped sending shit into the atmosphere that destroyed the ozone layer. it still hasn’t recovered ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3218 "2014-09-28T13:18:01Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Just a few posts ago, I politely asked another poster to back up his claims and was accused of “denialism.” Not only that, with your focus on evidence and facts, you are actually a “denier”, not just steeped in denialism. > [@brazil84](#): > > Is it somehow illegitimate to point out how ridiculous such an accusation is? Of course it is. Defending yourself only makes it worse. If you use evidence and facts you are a denier. If you don’t believe the experts you are a denier. If you express skepticsism and don’t blindly trust in authority, you are a denier. Looking at data and talking about scientific findings, it’s only because you hate science. This is the consensus view, and anyone who doesn’t agree is a denier. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3219 "2014-09-28T14:11:43Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > In the section quoted right below the portion you quoted: > > > [@](#): > > > > There is little doubt in the scientific community that continually growing amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, due largely to carbon-dioxide emissions from the conventional use of fossil fuels, are influencing the climate. > > In case you are having trouble parsing, he is saying that the fact that humans are changing the climate are settled. That greenhouse gasses from fossil fuels are largely the mechanism, and the that the effect of humans is comparable in size to the natural variation. If we add to that I am in agreement. “There is little doubt that changes in land use, damning all the major rivers, irrigation and agriculture, air traffic in the stratosphere and deforestation, along with the continually growing amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, due largely to carbon-dioxide emissions from the conventional use of fossil fuels, stratospheric pollution, GhGs and methane producton, are influencing the climate.” ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3220 "2014-09-28T14:18:35Z")
Oh damn it. I left out black carbon (soot) pollution, draining of wetlands, forest fire suppression, (which falls under land use changes, as does turning 10 million acres of soil into asphalt and concrete), and particulates. Like high sulfur coal burning produces. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=160) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=162)