# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 180
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3581 "2015-01-06T17:40:03Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I am consistent, always using sources and science Deliberately leaving out inconvenient, off-message bits of those sources and science is hardly honest. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3582 "2015-01-07T01:09:09Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Deliberately leaving out inconvenient, off-message bits of those sources and science is hardly honest. Would you mind providing two examples of important information **Fx** has omitted? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3583 "2015-01-07T02:19:16Z")
The parts of the map that he, himself, provided, that don’t support his contentions. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3584 "2015-01-07T03:08:40Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The parts of the map that he, himself, provided, that don’t support his contentions. Which parts would those be? > [@Trinopus](#): > > Colder localwinters and hotter summers have both been predicted…and observed. Who made these predictions? Who made the observations? When were they made? Where were they published? > [@Trinopus](#): > > “Gee, it’s a really cold winter” is not a working rebuttal of global warming. Again you use the phrase “global warming” What exactly does it mean to you? How can anyone even rebut “global warming” when you won’t even explain what you mean by the phrase? Seriously, do you have any idea in your head at all what you mean when you use the phrase “global warming”? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3585 "2015-01-07T04:57:33Z")
Global warming means that the earth – the biosphere, deep oceans, atmosphere – there’s probably a technical term for this – is getting hotter. The temperatures are rising. The sea and air temperature are greater than they were a century ago. I have not been able to find sources on predictions of colder localized winters. (Wow, the world ended.) **FXMastermind** linked to a map that showed temperatures worldwide. He called attention to two small zones that were cool, and ignored a dozen other zones that were warm. This is his constant pattern in these debates. He accentuates the downward-pointing segments of temperature graphs, and ignored the upward-pointing segments. This is a childish form of denialism. It’s infantile. It doesn’t require a scientist to observe and chastise. It’s at a “Why are there still apes?” level of stupidity. When (occasionally) he ascends to a more sophisticated level of wrongness, I drop out of the discussion, because I’m not able to argue at that level. But when he’s so incredibly stupid as to say that localized colder winters disprove global warming, I’m on him. It’s easy enough even I can do it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3586 "2015-01-07T11:40:53Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I have not been able to find sources on predictions of colder localized winters. (Wow, the world ended.) > > **FXMastermind** linked to a map that showed temperatures worldwide. He called attention to two small zones that were cool, and ignored a dozen other zones that were warm. This is his constant pattern in these debates. He accentuates the downward-pointing segments of temperature graphs, and ignored the upward-pointing segments. > > This is a childish form of denialism. It’s infantile. It doesn’t require a scientist to observe and chastise. It’s my take – and, by all means, **FX** , correct me if I’m misrepresenting you – that he’s doing that as a response-in-kind to folks who childishly point at local weather to accentuate upward-pointing stuff and ignore downward-pointing stuff. That he wants AGW proponents to say – over and over – that local weather is irrelevant, because the relevant questions can be found at a more sophisticated level. That he’s trying to observe and chastise that incredibly stupid behavior by simply holding a mirror up to it… > [@](#): > > When (occasionally) he ascends to a more sophisticated level of wrongness, I drop out of the discussion, because I’m not able to argue at that level. But when he’s so incredibly stupid as to say that localized colder winters disprove global warming, I’m on him. It’s easy enough even I can do it. …and, were it not for AGW proponents who point at local weather, maybe **FX** would only ever post at that more sophisticated level – the level where you (a) drop out of the discussion because you can’t actually argue with what he’s saying, but you want to (b) add, in the same breath, that you think he’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3587 "2015-01-07T17:21:16Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > It’s my take – and, by all means, **FX** , correct me if I’m misrepresenting you – that he’s doing that as a response-in-kind to folks who childishly point at local weather to accentuate upward-pointing stuff and ignore downward-pointing stuff. Yes of course, but the ironic/satirical part of it is more complicated than just that, which may be the reason for the confusion at times. Explaining it will be complicated. As I noted in post 22, starting in 2010, a few media sources started reporting what some climate researchers were proposing, that the extremely cold (record cold and snow) winter weather might be due to climate change, but they used the term “global warming” when reporting this. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > Well, there is little doubt the predictions of the IPCC and the consensus and the models were right. > > [Global warming set to bring colder, snowier winters](http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/news/48293) > > [Cold Winters Driven By Global Warming](http://news.discovery.com/earth/cold-winter-snow-weather-global-warming-101222.htm) > > Damn you global warming. Damn you all to hell. The problem with that short post, is that it contains maybe six different ironic/satirical points. All of which require some understanding already of science, history and my ironic humorous take on things. First point: The first sentence is irony/satire, since the IPCC of course had not been predicting colder winters. Second and third, same thing for the “consensus and the models”. which did not predict (much less warn) about a changing of the climate, with more extreme winters, with much more snow and cold. Fourth and fifth points, the two stories, (the discovery link no longer works btw), the 2010 one stated “Cold Winters Driven By Global Warming”, and the 2012 one says " global warming produces colder winters and heavier dumps of snow for large swathes of the northern hemisphere.". Which means **complaining about the goddamn fucking cold and snow** is complaining about global warming. Which sounds fucked up, and it is fucked up. no matter how you look at it. Let me explain that, because it’s probably not obvious. On the face of it, **if you don’t believe that global warming is causing the weather** , it’s fucked up to blame weather on global warming. **If you do believe global warming is causing the weather** , it sounds like I am being sarcastic complaining about it, mocking global warming. If you don’t believe the science (that NH winters have been much colder) then it sounds even more fucked up. > [@](#): > > Now research suggests that colder winters have become more frequent over the past two decades, and were likely a product of global warming. [http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/news/48293](http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/news/48293) If you don’t read the linked stories it is even worse, since you don’t have any idea of what is being discussed. So it’s not simple at all, there are layers of irony and disbelief, as well as the more obvious satire of every warm day or heat wave being blamed on global warming. Rather than the simplistic “it’s record cold so how can there be global warming?”, it’s one level further, complaining that it’s record cold, but that the cold is because of global warming. Which leads to the next level, so it’s understandable that the reader who skims, and knows little about the issues, wouldn’t grasp most of the concepts involved. That explanation of course is simplistic, and doesn’t even touch on several other very complicated things that have been argued over in this thread. (global warming theory, past predictions, the greenhouse effect, the human fingerprint, trends, etc etc) ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3588 "2015-01-09T02:21:48Z")
Fighting ignorance still > [@Trinopus](#): > > Global warming means that the earth – the biosphere, deep oceans, atmosphere – there’s probably a technical term for this – is getting hotter. The temperatures are rising. The sea and air temperature are greater than they were a century ago. That is not what global warming means. The warming until 1950 (from the little ice age period) is not called global warming. Global warming, or AGW, or the enhanced greenhouse theory of global warming, means warming due to an increase in the greenhouse effect from human activities, mostly burning fossil fuels, cement making and deforestation, all of which increase the level of CO2 in the atmosphere. Such warming is expected to have certain signals, which should become recognizable at some point, so that we can say the warming is due to an enhanced greenhouse effect, rather than any other cause. > [@Trinopus](#): > > I have not been able to find sources on predictions of colder localized winters. (Wow, the world ended.) That’s because they don’t exist. > [@Trinopus](#): > > **FXMastermind** linked to a map that showed temperatures worldwide. Wrong, the GISS maps show trends, changes in temperature anomalies over time. Or the occasional anomaly map which shows a certain time, none of them actually show temperatures. For example, [this map shows the winter of 2014](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=anoms&mean_gen=1203&year1=2014&year2=2014&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=250&pol=rob), it’s anomalies from the mean of 1951-1980. [This one shows the same thing](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=anoms&mean_gen=1203&year1=2014&year2=2014&base1=1981&base2=2010&radius=250&pol=rob), but using 1981-2010 for the base period. [This one shows the twenty year trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1995&year2=2014&base1=1981&base2=2010&radius=250&pol=rob), which does not use a base period, but changes over time. For comparison, [here is the twenty year summer trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?sat=4&sst=3&type=trends&mean_gen=0603&year1=1995&year2=2014&base1=1981&base2=2010&radius=250&pol=rob). None of those GISS maps show actual temperatures. > [@Trinopus](#): > > He accentuates the downward-pointing segments of temperature graphs, and ignored the upward-pointing segments. Nonsense, none of the GISS maps are altered in any way. Since many of the maps are to show warming, there is no ignoring of anything. In fact, I showed you many maps that illustrate winter warming. > [@Trinopus](#): > > But when he’s so incredibly stupid as to say that localized colder winters disprove global warming, I’m on him. It’s easy enough even I can do it. Wrong again, none of my comments ever say “localized colder winters”, nor do any of the scientific papers I quote use that phrase. It’s that the trends are for very large areas, and so strong they show up globally, that they matter. Localized cold spells mean nothing, nor would an occasional cold NH winter. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3589 "2015-01-09T04:35:31Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > . . . none of my comments ever say “localized colder winters”, nor do any of the scientific papers I quote use that phrase. . . . You don’t use the phrase, but you point to the phenomenon. A snowstorm envelops New York, and you use it to claim that there’s no such thing as global warming. You’ve been doing this for years now. It’s as if you don’t have any comprehension of temperatures anywhere else in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3590 "2015-01-09T04:38:47Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Fighting ignorance still That is not what global warming means. The warming until 1950 (from the little ice age period) is not called global warming. Global warming, or AGW, or the enhanced greenhouse theory of global warming, means warming due to an increase in the greenhouse effect from human activities, mostly burning fossil fuels, cement making and deforestation, all of which increase the level of CO2 in the atmosphere. Such warming is expected to have certain signals, which should become recognizable at some point, so that we can say the warming is due to an enhanced greenhouse effect, rather than any other cause. . . . Wrong. Global warming is just…the warming of the biosphere. It is what it says. AGW is a leading explanation for the factually observed phenomenon. It is the explanation that is favored by nearly all climate scientists. But it is a specific scientific explanation for something that really is happening. You’re failing to distinguish between the forest fire and how it was caused. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3591 "2015-01-09T05:26:55Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > You don’t use the phrase, but you point to the phenomenon. No, I’m specific and clear about what I say, and the sources I base my comments. When I say “widespread cooling of large areas of the NH, during boreal winters”, I mean exactly that. Not what you are saying. > [@Trinopus](#): > > A snowstorm envelops New York, and you use it to claim that there’s no such thing as global warming. Wrong again. A snowstorm means little to nothing about global climate. > [@](#): > > Global warming is the unusually rapid increase in Earth’s average surface temperature over the past century primarily due to the greenhouse gases released as people burn fossil fuels. [http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/GlobalWarming/page2.php](http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/GlobalWarming/page2.php) > [@Trinopus](#): > > Wrong. Global warming is just…the warming of the biosphere. It is what it says. We will disagree then. I consider NASA, NOAA and other scientific bodies to be the authorities on the terminology, rather than your opinion about it. > [@](#): > > The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is very likely human-induced and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented in the past 1,300 years. [Evidence - NASA Science](http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/) The warming that led to the MWP would not be called global warming, nor would any of the past warming periods. Global warming refers to the current period, and is considered to be the result of human changes to the system. This makes global warming have a specific meaning, rather than describing any of the natural warming periods that have happened many times in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3592 "2015-01-09T10:07:47Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > No, I’m specific and clear about what I say, and the sources I base my comments. When I say “widespread cooling of large areas of the NH, during boreal winters”, I mean exactly that. As near as I can tell, you randomly link to maps, then conclude they mean what you want them to mean. And this blinkered obsession with “the NH, during boreal winters”, to the exclusion of overwelming counter-balancing global data, borders on the pathological. You aren’t presenting arguments, you are preaching. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3593 "2015-01-09T10:55:23Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Global warming means that the earth – the biosphere, deep oceans, atmosphere – there’s probably a technical term for this – is getting hotter. The temperatures are rising. The sea and air temperature are greater than they were a century ago. I for one do not dispute that surface temperatures and ocean temperatures have risen over the last 100 years. I don’t know about upper atmospheric temperatures, possibly nobody knows, but I certainly would not be surprised if those too had risen. Do you think anyone in this thread disputes “global warming” as you have defined it? > [@](#): > > I have not been able to find sources on predictions of colder localized winters. (Wow, the world ended.) So I take it you will retract your claim that “Colder localwinters and hotter summers have both been predicted…and observed.”? > [@](#): > > FXMastermind linked to a map that showed temperatures worldwide. He called attention to two small zones that were cool, and ignored a dozen other zones that were warm Do you happen to know which post you are referring to? FX, do you know what he’s talking about? > [@](#): > > But when he’s so incredibly stupid as to say that localized colder winters disprove global warming Can you point to where he has said this? Because that’s not what I understand his argument to be. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3594 "2015-01-09T11:04:01Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You aren’t presenting arguments, you are preaching. That’s pretty funny coming from the guy who insists that “There are lots of empirical data that would disprove global warming” but refuses to provide any examples or even explain what he means by “global warming.” ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3595 "2015-01-09T13:34:37Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Barrow Alaska is celebrating the global warming, [with record snowfall](http://pafg.arh.noaa.gov/wmofcst.php?wmo=SXAK79PABR&type=public). Local weather! ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3596 "2015-01-09T13:39:43Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > My people in Maine are bitching about the record early snow. I told them to suck it up, it’s Maine after all. And just because you get record early snow, that actually just means things are warming up. > > Cooling is the new warming. Local weather! ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3597 "2015-01-09T13:44:14Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Both Kansas as well as Texas set new records for coldest temperature for the day. Ever since records started. > > The record in Austin was 8 degrees colder than ever recorded before. That is a huge record change. If it was a record high temperature, it would be all over the news of course. And for good reason, that would be very unusual. [The Austin-Bergstrom International Airport previous record of 50](http://austin.twcnews.com/content/news/299219/record-low-temps-ahead-of-pleasant-weekend) was from 2011, which was also a very cold time for the US > > Kansas City was just a few degrees, but still an all time record low temperature. > > [But the real story is here](http://www.crh.noaa.gov/news/display_cmsstory.php?wfo=lot&storyid=102303&source=0) in northern Illinois. Rockford broke another snow record. Rockford had never had accumulating snow after May 2nd … until this year… two weeks past the latest date. Records start in 1905. > > Snow started October 22 and hopefully ended May 16th this year. > > Fuck you global warming. I’m sick of this shit. Local weather! ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3598 "2015-01-09T13:46:47Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > New Orleans is the latest victim of Global Warming. [Records were shattered](http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/new-orleans-may-sneak-away-wit/23867494), and party people were not happy. > > Won’t somebody think of the drunken revelers? Local weather! ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3599 "2015-01-09T13:48:38Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I heard in Iowa they are sick of the global warming. > > At least three Iowa cities broke or matched 115 year old weather records this morning. National Weather Service Meteorologist Jim Lee says it was especially cold over the eastern half of the state. The Quad Cities, Waterloo, and Cedar Rapids set or tied record lows for this date. Waterloo hit 24 below zero, Moline 22 below and Cedar Rapids 21 below. > Those temperatures haven’t been recorded at this time of year since one of the most spectacular cold waves to strike Iowa and much of the rest of the country back in 1899 > [Cold temperatures sink to record lows - Radio Iowa](http://www.radioiowa.com/2014/02/11/cold-temperatures-sink-to-record-lows/) Local weather! ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3600 "2015-01-09T13:50:20Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Yes, and [you can see how warm it was here](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2014&month_last=1&sat=4&sst=3&type=anoms&mean_gen=01&year1=2014&year2=2014&base1=1980&base2=2002&radius=250&pol=rob). > > frightening actually. > > Especially if you live near the great lakes Please focus on the cold areas and ignore the warm ones. We are focusing on local weather! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=179) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=181)