# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 192
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3821 "2015-02-21T09:54:52Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > More evaporation, and more water in the air, during the winter? > > Let’s go monosyllabic to make things easier for some to follow along with: > > It… mean… more… snow… fall. [Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past](http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html) > [@](#): > > According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event”. > > “Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,” he said. > [@](#): > > :smack: \<------------I believe this is the smiley face you need to use after every single one of your posts. Indeed. Let me ask you this: If it’s so simple and obvious that increased global surface temperatures will result in more snow, surely this point would have been made repeatedly in the IPCC reports. Agreed? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3822 "2015-02-21T09:59:38Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Then why do you keep making the most elementary possible blunders? That’s an odd claim from someone who doesn’t even understand **FXMastermind** ’s position and doesn’t know what issues are actually in dispute. Do you still think that criticizing the Hockey Stick Graph is equivalent to disputing that temperatures have risen over the last 100 years? Do you still think that anyone in this thread disputes that temperatures have risen over the last 100 years? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3823 "2015-02-21T23:49:11Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > [Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past](http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html) Funny how you left off this part: > [@](#): > > Heavy snow will return occasionally, says Dr Viner, but when it does we will be unprepared. “We’re really going to get caught out. Snow will probably cause chaos in 20 years time,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3824 "2015-02-22T00:12:48Z")
**brazil** , do you have a link handy to the UK snowfall history since 2000? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3825 "2015-02-22T02:19:03Z")
As an interesting aside, one of the most strident climate change deniers has just been revealed to have been taking huge amounts of funding from oil companies and Koch brothers and neglecting to disclose that fact on papers he published. > **[Deeper Ties to Corporate Cash for Doubtful Climate Researcher (Published 2015)](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/us/ties-to-corporate-cash-for-climate-change-researcher-Wei-Hock-Soon.html?_r=0)** > > Newly released documents show the extent of the links between corporate interests and the published work of Wei-Hock Soon, a Smithsonian-affiliated scientist who has tried to debunk the consensus about global warming. > [@](#): > > He has accepted more than $1.2 million in money from the fossil-fuel industry over the last decade while failing to disclose that conflict of interest in most of his scientific papers. At least 11 papers he has published since 2008 omitted such a disclosure, and in at least eight of those cases, he appears to have violated ethical guidelines of the journals that published his work. His data kind of sucks, too. > [@](#): > > Though he has little formal training in climatology, Dr. Soon has for years published papers trying to show that variations in the sun’s energy can explain most recent global warming. His thesis is that human activity has played a relatively small role in causing climate change. > > Many experts in the field say that Dr. Soon uses out-of-date data, publishes spurious correlations between solar output and climate indicators, and does not take account of the evidence implicating emissions from human behavior in climate change. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3826 "2015-02-22T02:24:45Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Funny how you left off this part: So you agree with Dr. Viner’s predictions then? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3827 "2015-02-22T02:26:16Z")
> [@andros](#): > > **brazil** , do you have a link handy to the UK snowfall history since 2000? No I do not. Do you agree with **Askthepizzaguy** ’s apparent claim that increased global surface temperatures clearly and obviously means more snow? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3828 "2015-02-22T06:22:53Z")
Allow me to translate the good doctor: “Increased global surface temperatures will result in more snow per storm but fewer storms overall.” You were saying? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3829 "2015-02-22T09:17:56Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Allow me to translate the good doctor: “Increased global surface temperatures will result in more snow per storm but fewer storms overall.” And do you agree with that? Also does that mean more snow overall or less snow overall? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3830 "2015-02-22T14:27:08Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > So you agree with Dr. Viner’s predictions then? Since you seem intent on remaining ignorant about Dr Viner, allow me to provide some very small degree of education. From the meteorological office of the UK govt, typical snowfall in the part of England containing East Anglia: > [@](#): > > The average number of days with snow falling each year ranges from under 20 in the south-east of the area to over 30 on higher ground. The average number of days with snow lying is less, varying from about 7 to 20. [link](http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/regional-climates/ee) In short, there’s fuck all for snowfall that accumulates in East Anglia. The guy is not talking about Boston, fercryinoutloud. From your own link, which apparently you did not read (note that this article is from 2000 - I have no clue what’s happened in the 15 years since regarding snowfall, and I’ve expended all the energy I intend to on this topic): > [@](#): > > The first two months of 2000 were virtually free of significant snowfall in much of lowland Britain, and December brought only moderate snowfall in the South-east. It is the continuation of a trend that has been increasingly visible in the past 15 years: in the south of England, for instance, from 1970 to 1995 snow and sleet fell for an average of 3.7 days, while from 1988 to 1995 the average was 0.7 days. London’s last substantial snowfall was in February 1991. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3831 "2015-02-22T16:16:51Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Since you seem intent on remaining ignorant about Dr Viner, allow me to provide some very small degree of education. Yes, please educate me. > [@](#): > > In short, there’s fuck all for snowfall that accumulates in East Anglia. The guy is not talking about Boston, fercryinoutloud. So are you saying that (1) East Anglia and nearby areas are an exception to the general principle announced by **Askthepizzaguy** that increased global surface temperatures means more snow; and (2) Dr. Viner’s predictions are extremely limited geographically? > [@](#): > > From your own link, which apparently you did not read At a minimum, I read enough to observe an apparent contradiction between the predictions of **Askthepizzaguy** and the predictions of the researcher mentioned in the article. Do you agree that there is a contradiction? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3832 "2015-02-22T16:20:15Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > No I do not. That’s a shame; it would be really interesting to see if snowfall has in fact decreased in East Anglia, or in the UK as a whole, over the past 15 years. > [@](#): > > Do you agree with **Askthepizzaguy** ’s apparent claim that increased global surface temperatures clearly and obviously means more snow? I don’t know. Why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3833 "2015-02-22T16:29:21Z")
In other [climate change news](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/us/ties-to-corporate-cash-for-climate-change-researcher-Wei-Hock-Soon.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0)…we are shocked, shocked that a denier scientist was on the take. On the other hand, it means more money in the Koch propaganda budget for non-scientist Internet shills, so things are looking up for **FX**! ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3834 "2015-02-22T16:41:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > In other [climate change news](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/us/ties-to-corporate-cash-for-climate-change-researcher-Wei-Hock-Soon.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0)…we are shocked, shocked that a denier scientist was on the take. > > On the other hand, it means more money in the Koch propaganda budget for non-scientist Internet shills, so things are looking up for **FX**! Posted that up thread. As the climate change-deniers say “follow the money”. Ok! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3835 "2015-02-22T16:49:30Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Posted that up thread. As the climate change-deniers say “follow the money”. Ok! Damn, you’re right, sorry, I missed that. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3836 "2015-02-22T17:14:39Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > And do you agree with that? > > Also does that mean more snow overall or less snow overall? With such a poorly written article, that’s difficult to say. > [@brazil84](#): > > At a minimum, I read enough to observe an apparent contradiction between the predictions of **Askthepizzaguy** and the predictions of the researcher mentioned in the article. No, I think you read what you wanted to read into a poorly written article and stopped reading when you realized that it might not back you up after all. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3837 "2015-02-22T17:18:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Damn, you’re right, sorry, I missed that. I’m glad you posted it- definitely worth people noticing. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3838 "2015-02-22T17:30:53Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > So are you saying that (1) East Anglia and nearby areas are an exception to the general principle announced by **Askthepizzaguy** that increased global surface temperatures means more snow; and (2) Dr. Viner’s predictions are extremely limited geographically? > > At a minimum, I read enough to observe an apparent contradiction between the predictions of **Askthepizzaguy** and the predictions of the researcher mentioned in the article. > > Do you agree that there is a contradiction? No I do not agree. **Askthepizzaguy** ’s point is that increased global surface temperatures mean more _precipitation_. Whether it’s snow or not depends on the temperature. In a place like Boston where it is often below freezing in February this will mean more snow, and so when Boston is the topic of conversation one might phrase this simply as increased temperatures lead to more snow. In a place like southeast England where, when it snows at all, it’s usually only just barely cold enough to be snow rather than rain, then one might point out that increased precipitation and a marginal increase in temperature might mean _less_ snow (and more rain). That you need this explained, and by instinct merely conflate statements in one 15-year-old news article about weather in England with different, off-hand statements made on a message board about weather in Massachusetts merely indicates that you aren’t interested in understanding the subject and instead merely want to cherrypick statements from here and there which on their surface seem contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3839 "2015-02-22T19:49:00Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Funny how you left off this part: Obviously he was speaking to his assumption, so that decades later, when there was the rare heavy snow, nobody would be ready for it. Of course by 2006 [heavy snow was already an issue once again in England](http://www.torro.org.uk/site/snow_info.php). It’s a shame [Dr Richard J. Wild stopped publishing data in 2007](http://www.drrichardwild.co.uk/index.php?page=UK_Heavy_Snowfall_News), or we could simply use his page to check. > [@](#): > > As mentioned above, the number of days of snow falling and lying on the ground varies enormously from year to year. In many districts of the UK, in the last 50 years it has ranged from none at all in a number of winters to in excess of 30 days during the winters of 1946/1947 and 1962/1963 [Dr Richard Wild - Heavy Snow, Blizzards, Snowstorms and Snowfall Site](http://www.drrichardwild.co.uk/index.php?page=UK_Snow_Climate#) Of course by 2009, [the matter was ridiculous in the extreme](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_2009_Great_Britain_and_Ireland_snowfall). > [@andros](#): > > **brazil** , do you have a link handy to the UK snowfall history since 2000? If only such vital data was easy to access. Can you imagine? A world where weather data isn’t a state secret? That would be awesome. > [@brazil84](#): > > So you agree with Dr. Viner’s predictions then? I’m sure you know the problem with asking direct questions everyone can understand. It requires somebody to stand behind something, and that is certainly not how climate predictions work. Because if you actually state something is true, you can later be found to be wrong. Best to keep it obtuse or vague, and include lots of weasel words. > [@brazil84](#): > > Do you agree with **Askthepizzaguy** ’s apparent claim that increased global surface temperatures clearly and obviously means more snow? I have no problem answering questions, especially ones like that. It’s an idiot claim, not backed by any science at all. So no, it’s such a terrible claim it’s not even possible to be right. > [@Skywatcher](#): > > Allow me to translate the good doctor: “Increased global surface temperatures will result in more snow per storm but fewer storms overall.” Which does not match what we have observed at all. In fact, just as the entire history of meteorology shows, snow is directly connected to cold, not warmer temperatures. Viner did not, and would not predict less snow because it was getting colder in England. > [@Gorsnak](#): > > Since you seem intent on remaining ignorant about Dr Viner, allow me to provide some very small degree of education. > > … - I have no clue what’s happened in the 15 years since regarding snowfall, and I’ve expended all the energy I intend to on this topic): Thank God for that. > [@brazil84](#): > > So are you saying that (1) East Anglia and nearby areas are an exception to the general principle announced by **Askthepizzaguy** that increased global surface temperatures means more snow; and (2) Dr. Viner’s predictions are extremely limited geographically? > > At a minimum, I read enough to observe an apparent contradiction between the predictions of **Askthepizzaguy** and the predictions of the researcher mentioned in the article. > > Do you agree that there is a contradiction? Of course there is. I don’t know what idiot school of thought is spreading this insane concept that warmer means less snow, and obviously they don’t think. According to their idiot world view, colder would mean less snow, warmer more snow. In what fuckhead Universe do they live? Seriously? > [@andros](#): > > That’s a shame; it would be really interesting to see if snowfall has in fact decreased in East Anglia, or in the UK as a whole, over the past 15 years. Good lard yes, wouldn’t that be fucking amazing? If only we had satellites that record snow and temperature and all that complicated weather stuff? Or at least some weather stations in England. I’m sure they will eventually put some in, and put the data online. Someday. > [@MrDibble](#): > > In other [climate change news](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/us/ties-to-corporate-cash-for-climate-change-researcher-Wei-Hock-Soon.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0)…we are shocked, shocked that a denier scientist was on the take. I thought that was old news. From 2013, [Not just the Koch brothers: New study reveals funders behind the climate change denial effort](http://phys.org/news/2013-12-koch-brothers-reveals-funders-climate.html) Does anyone disagree that vested interest will do almost anything to protect their power? Profits? I mean, if you were trying to sell the idea that nobody is doing anything at all to influence policy and legislation, that would be hard to believe. I’m just astounded that with all that money and power, the evil fuel companies do such a bad job of it. The few papers about the cooling NH winter trends all seem to be some mystery to most people. And of course they all are about laying blame for the winter weather directly on global warming. With all those billions just being handed out, why no concerted effort to point out that the global warming theory is just wrong at this point? Based on the official data alone, it’s obvious. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/3840 "2015-02-22T21:24:11Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > If only such vital data was easy to access. Can you imagine? A world where weather data isn’t a state secret? That would be awesome… > > Good lard yes, wouldn’t that be fucking amazing? If only we had satellites that record snow and temperature and all that complicated weather stuff? Or at least some weather stations in England. I’m sure they will eventually put some in, and put the data online. Someday. Dude, your scorn and sarcasm are so deeply layered, I honestly can’t tell when–if ever–you’re being serious. Do you have a link to UK snowfall over the past 15 years handy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=191) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=193)