# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 201
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4001 "2015-03-09T19:39:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Google is going to start ranking articles for accuracy. [Climate-change deniers](http://www.salon.com/2015/03/06/anti_science_advocates_are_freaking_out_about_new_google_truth_rankings/) [are pissed.](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/fox-news-regular-upset-google-will-rank-by-accuracy-let-the-public-decide-whats-the-truth/) One says, one **actually** says, “Let the public decide what’s the truth.” What kind of person wants people to be able to decide on truth? A computer algorithm that pulls facts from the web is much better at deciding what is true. WolframAlpha has been doing this for almost 6 years, and already delivers truth, rather than a bunch of search results. Like, just ask it “[Are boreal winters getting colder?](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Are+boreal+winters+getting+colder%3F)”, and the issue is settled. Google will probably do a much better job as well. Instead of a bunch of links to science papers and shit like that, it will just say “Yes!”. Issue settled. Of course somebody might argue over what “boreal winter” even means, but computers are fucking great at collecting knowledge. Just ask WolframApha about [boreal winter](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=boreal+winter), problem solved. As for the idiocy of salon? What does Google’s Ngram viewer [tell us about climate change deniers](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=climate+change+denier%2Cclimate+change+denial%2C+Anti(-)science+advocate%2CAntiscience+advocate&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=0&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cclimate%20change%20denial%3B%2Cc0#)? Oops. Maybe they should use actual real terms when trying to tar with a wide and sticky brush. > [@](#): > > "It is a very slippery and dangerous slope because there’s no arguing with a machine.” Yeah, but if a machine will shut you up, I’m sure most people would turn over search results to a machine, it has the added benefit of keeping people from having to think at all. Just reply with “Google says you are wrong”, end of the Great debates forum right there. ---
**Author:** ![statij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@statij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statij)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4002 "2015-03-09T23:03:44Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Like, just ask it “[Are boreal winters getting colder?](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Are+boreal+winters+getting+colder%3F)”, and the issue is settled. “Wolfram|Alpha doesn’t understand your query” Dipshit. ---
**Author:** ![statij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@statij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statij)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4003 "2015-03-09T23:15:41Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Just ask WolframApha about [boreal winter](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=boreal+winter), problem solved. “Using closest Wolfram|Alpha interpretation: winter” Fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4004 "2015-03-10T00:01:06Z")
Yeah, I’m the idiot because wolframalpha [doesn’t know jackshit about something](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=straightdope+message+board). Can’t wait to see how Google does, letting a computer decide what is truth, and what is not. Like asking Wikipedia [for a definition of boreal winter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boreal_winter), or what the [austral summer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austral_summer) is. Hopefully [dictionaries won’t go out of fashion](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/austral). ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4005 "2015-03-10T14:56:30Z")
Meanwhile, back in the real world, will Boston (and New England) breaking the all time record for snow mean anything for climate idiots? Of course not. If it had been record warm this winter, they would be saying it was global warming. If it’s record cold and snow, that’s also global warming. “Everything is global warming.” It’s not a joke, some people actually believe this. 220477 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4006 "2015-03-10T15:08:18Z")
Will unseasonably warm weather forcing the Iditarod north to Fairbanks–for only the second time in 43 years–mean anything to climate idiots? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4007 "2015-03-10T16:50:25Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Will unseasonably warm weather forcing the Iditarod north to Fairbanks–for only the second time in 43 years–mean anything to climate idiots? No because it’s cold in Boston so checkmate, warmists! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4008 "2015-03-10T20:20:30Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Will unseasonably warm weather forcing the Iditarod north to Fairbanks–for only the second time in 43 years–mean anything to climate idiots? > [@](#): > > the first race (then known as the Iditarod Trail Seppala Memorial Race in honor of Leonhard Seppala) was held in 1967 and covered 25 miles (40 km) near Anchorage. The purse of USD $25,000 attracted a field of 58 racers, and the winner was Isaac Okleasik. **The next race, in 1968, was canceled for lack of snow** , and the small $1,000 purse in 1969 only drew 12 mushers. > **[Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iditarod_Trail_Sled_Dog_Race)** > > The Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race, more commonly known as The Iditarod (/aɪˈdɪtərɒd/), is an annual long-distance sled dog race held in Alaska in early March. It travels from Anchorage to Nome. Mushers and a team of between 12 and 16 dogs, of which at least 5 must be on the towline at the finish line, cover the distance in 8–15 days or more. The Iditarod began in 1973 as an event to test the best sled dog mushers and teams but evolved into today's highly competitive race. > Teams often race throu... Lack of snow in 1968, normal. Lack of snow in 2015, GLOBAL FUCKING WARMING! Of course there actually has been some serious warming in the arctic, and it’s a concern. From 2004 (and still today) > [@](#): > > A warmer Arctic will also affect weather patterns and thus food production around the world. Wheat farming in Kansas, for example, would be profoundly affected by the loss of ice cover in the Arctic. According to a NASA Goddard Institute of Space Studies computer model, Kansas would be 4 degrees warmer in the winter without Arctic ice, **which normally creates cold air masses that frequently slide southward into the United States**. Warmer winters are bad news for wheat farmers, who need freezing temperatures to grow winter wheat. And in summer, warmer days would rob Kansas soil of 10 percent of its moisture, drying out valuable cropland. [http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/qthinice.asp](http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/qthinice.asp) ([archived version](https://web.archive.org/web/20040225050024/http://www.nrdc.org/globalWarming/qthinice.asp)) It’s exactly that kind of thing that creates some serious fucking skepticism, when now we are being told a warming arctic **creates cold air masses that frequently slide southward into the United States**. The basic fuck up is obvious. You can’t claim global warming will melt the arctic, and cause winters to be warmer and drier, and then claim extremely cold, unusually cold winters are also due to global warming. And yet that is exactly what has happened. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4009 "2015-03-10T20:52:54Z")
Yes he mentioned it was the second time. Can’t you read? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4010 "2015-03-10T22:01:02Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > . . . It’s exactly that kind of thing that creates some serious fucking skepticism, when now we are being told a warming arctic **creates cold air masses that frequently slide southward into the United States**. > > The basic fuck up is obvious. You can’t claim global warming will melt the arctic, and cause winters to be warmer and drier, and then claim extremely cold, unusually cold winters are also due to global warming. > > And yet that is exactly what has happened. Do you even comprehend the temperatures involved? Do you get that -90F is not the same as -30F? The Arctic is melting – and the cold air moving from that process brings colder than usual air to parts of the world. If you set an ice cube on top of a soda can, the ice cube melts, and the upper parts of the soda get cold. But the overall situation is warming. You’re a nut. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4011 "2015-03-10T22:10:43Z")
> [@](#): > > A warmer Arctic will also affect weather patterns and thus food production around the world. Wheat farming in Kansas, for example, would be profoundly affected by the loss of ice cover in the Arctic. According to a NASA Goddard Institute of Space Studies computer model, Kansas would be 4 degrees warmer in the winter without Arctic ice, which normally creates cold air masses that frequently slide southward into the United States. Warmer winters are bad news for wheat farmers, who need freezing temperatures to grow winter wheat. And in summer, warmer days would rob Kansas soil of 10 percent of its moisture, drying out valuable cropland. [http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/qthinice.asp](http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/qthinice.asp) [Warmer winters are bad news for wheat farmers](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/356/00/tavg/3/02/2004-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1901&lastbaseyear=2000), who need freezing temperatures to grow winter wheat. And in summer, [warmer days](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/14/00/tavg/3/08/1930-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1901&lastbaseyear=2000) would rob Kansas soil of 10 percent of its moisture, [drying out valuable cropland](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/14/00/pcp/3/08/1930-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1901&lastbaseyear=2000) So which is it? Is global warming making winters colder, or making winters warmer? That is the vexation for an alarmists at the moment. Unless they want it both ways. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4012 "2015-03-10T23:32:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Wheat farming in Kansas, for example, would be profoundly affected by the loss of ice cover in the Arctic. So…when the ice cover is gone in the Arctic, those things will–maybe–occur. I’m not seeing the vexation. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4013 "2015-03-10T23:50:35Z")
Well, the Feb 2015 data just came in, so I will answer ya later. Much to do. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4014 "2015-03-12T02:07:34Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Yes he mentioned it was the second time. Can’t you read? Heck, he thinks the global warming wasn’t happening in the '60s! Maybe it showed up with PacMan… ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4015 "2015-03-14T14:55:10Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Will unseasonably warm weather forcing the Iditarod north to Fairbanks–for only the second time in 43 years–mean anything to climate idiots? Yes, climate idiots will focus on an unusual weather event, one that has happened many times before, and think it means something about climate, and they will point at weather and go “Oh my God! The climate is changing!”. And then after they switch the dogsled race they will get buried with snow and it will be unusually cold, but they will ignore that, because they actually fucking want bad weather or bad climate, to wake people up, because people are stupid and need to be scared and anxious so they will do what they are told by other people. That idiots will focus on weather, rather than climate, is guaranteed. Looking at long term data is what climate researchers actually do, rather than one month, or season. Alaska has been added to the NCDC CAG page, so you can actually look at a lot of the data now. [Has there been drastic winter warming there?](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/50/00/tmax/4/03/2000-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1926&lastbaseyear=2000) Or was the article I posted last year correct? > [@FXMastermind](#): > > 220477 222909 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4016 "2015-03-14T15:09:30Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Yes, climate idiots will focus on an unusual weather event… Seriously, print this thread up using standard paper and stick it up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4017 "2015-03-14T15:33:24Z")
With the addition of Washington DC, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and Alaska to the NCDC display tool, it’s now possible to display all of the US data. The issue of Alaska, which was reported to have had drastic cooling since 2000, except for Barrow, is now easy to confirm, though the story isn’t anywhere near as simple as what was reported. While the one station from Barrow, located in the middle of the largest oil field in the US, does show unusual warming, the data for the entire north slope shows the same off winter cooling pattern, with [winter cooling](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/50/01/tavg/3/02/2000-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1966&lastbaseyear=2014&filter=true&filterType=binomial), even as summer shows [a small cooling trend](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/50/01/tavg/3/08/2000-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1966&lastbaseyear=2014&filter=true&filterType=binomial). this asymmetric change is evident even in Alaska. Which is fucked up. I would say using “since 2000” is cherry picking, but [the twenty year trend for spring there also shows cooling](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/50/01/tavg/3/05/1990-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1966&lastbaseyear=2014&filter=true&filterType=binomial). [Fall shows warming](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/50/01/tavg/3/11/1990-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1966&lastbaseyear=2014&filter=true&filterType=binomial), which is very different from the rest of the US data. But this [twenty year flat summer trend](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/50/01/tavg/3/08/1990-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1966&lastbaseyear=2014&filter=true&filterType=binomial) is a surprise. It’s fascinating. I certainly didn’t expect the [twenty year annual statewide trend](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/50/00/tavg/ytd/12/1990-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1966&lastbaseyear=2014&trend=true&trend_base=10&firsttrendyear=1995&lasttrendyear=2014&filter=true&filterType=binomial) to be flat. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4018 "2015-03-14T15:46:34Z")
Closer to home, the 30 year trend for Illinois winters is now -5.8 F a century. The Chicago area is -6.6 F for the [30 year winter trend](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/11/02/tavg/3/02/1985-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1966&lastbaseyear=2014&filter=true&filterType=binomial). Looking at the Tmax and Tmin, it’s clear [the nighttime lows](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/11/02/tmin/3/02/1985-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1966&lastbaseyear=2014&filter=true&filterType=binomial) are falling faster than [the daytime highs](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/11/02/tmax/3/02/1985-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1966&lastbaseyear=2014&filter=true&filterType=binomial). (global warming theory predicts nighttime lows, especially in winter, will trend higher, as the greenhouse effect gets stronger) Tmin winter trend for Chicago 30 year trend -7.7 F a century Tmax winter trend for Chicago 30 year trend - 5.7 F a century [Summer 30 year trend for Chicago region](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/11/02/tavg/3/08/1985-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1966&lastbaseyear=2014&trend=true&trend_base=100&firsttrendyear=1986&lasttrendyear=2014&filter=true&filterType=binomial) is still warming, with + 0.4 F a century. And at least the summer trends show Tmin rising, even as Tmax is falling. So at least there is that. But if you are trying to convince a skeptical person in Chicago warming is happening, you are going to have a bad day. Especially since along with the colder winters, snowfall is increasing as well. What’s really strange, is that [the annual 30 year trend is cooling](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/us/11/02/tavg/ytd/12/1985-2014?base_prd=true&firstbaseyear=1966&lastbaseyear=2014&trend=true&trend_base=100&firsttrendyear=1986&lasttrendyear=2014&filter=true&filterType=binomial), but it’s because of the Tmin trend dropping. That is the exact opposite of what we expect to see. Science! ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4019 "2015-03-14T16:02:10Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > … Much to do. All of it completely fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4020 "2015-03-14T16:59:42Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Overall, you don’t have a alternative hypothesis that can stand on its own for a millisecond. One does not need an alternative theory when debunking, like for example with the smoking issue. If the data shows smoking increases the risk of heart problems, lung problems, cancer (and probably a whole bunch of other nasty shit), declaring I have no alternative hypothesis is just a tactic. It doesn’t mean shit. But in the case of the most obvious winter trends, and perhaps even the global trends, Cohen and others have put forth several hypothesis (some call it a theory), to explain why climate change is happening as we observe. There is no doubt snow is increasing, like a lot, in areas that quite possibly could alter the winter patterns, though certainly the great shifts of the ocean circulation patterns also could be the reason. Then there is the historic and unexpected solar minimum, which until “global warming science” tried to take over everything, we would expect to see altering our climate, most obviously in the far northern regions. But to ignore it and call it stupid, well deniers are gonna deny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=200) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=202)