# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 205
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4081 "2015-04-01T18:14:56Z")
Then why don’t you ban his ass already and get it over with? I mean we have a rule about one-note posters with clear single-minded agendas, don’t we? 95% of his posts on this board are on this one topic, aren’t they? [Risking a note for saying this in a non-ATMB thread…] ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4082 "2015-04-01T18:21:33Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > If someone comes here not having been here from the get go, do you really think it’s reasonable to ask them to read 4000 posts to find the one where you clearly state your position? Of course not, just as it is unreasonable to expect a Great Debate thread about global warming to actually be happening here. > [@White SIFL](#): > > Or would it be better, for clarity’s sake, just to restate your position when nicely asked? . Asking for a short paragraph on global warming/climate change is a foolish request. But of course if anyone is sincere about it, I’m always ready to repeat the exact same thing that already appears a hundred times here, in a dozen topics. Any honest request is always answered clearly and with no rancor. It’s not hard for an informed person to state something, and as you will discover, I always use sources, rather than my opinion, when stating facts. Those who can’t be bothered to quote what they are talking about appear lazy, dishonest and most often dead wrong. It’s why they don’t quote what they are responding to. > [@tomndebb](#): > > Then, the second link, while appearing, on a first glance, to be “reasonable” turns out, if one follows the next several posts, to have been nothing more than a game of bait-and-switch, There’s an example of a false claim, which of course has no evidence. It’s easy enough to simply link to the next several post, and respond to what you disagree with. The next four posts, [one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18065163&postcount=20), [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18065671&postcount=25), [three](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18065707&postcount=26), [four](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18065851&postcount=28) Which one of those meets your accusation of a “a game of bait-and-switch”? Do you have any actual evidence? Same for your next false accusation. > [@tomndebb](#): > > This was a perfecly apt post, but it was undermined by the way he attempted to use it as an attack on those who are actually paying attention to the discussion on climate change. Where is the attack? What do you actually mean? Because it’s simple and easy and false to make shit up, it’s actually effort to argue your point. Try it sometime. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4083 "2015-04-01T18:28:33Z")
When called on it in GD, he abandoned that thread without continuing the action. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4084 "2015-04-01T18:35:19Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > I think what septimus (and others of us) wish is that rather than being purposely obtuse, you could just clearly state your position. My position on what? When this first came up, like 3,855 posts ago, I was indeed sarcastic (and very very funny) when I simply repeated stupid shit that global warmers have actually said. Then when there was blanket refusal to state the theory of global warming, as well as a bunch of time wasting weaseling and avoidance, I simply stated the theory, so everyone could understand it. Of course even that didn’t make any difference. Here’s where the question is asked. > [@brazil84](#): > > What EXACTLY is the theory that according to you, 95% of the scientific community supports? And of course nobody answered, least of all GIGOgalloper, who avoided it like anything. Which is exactly why I was being sarcastic. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > It’s just a fact so you can’t deny it. That is how science works. Facts. Only a science denier would want to talk about some theory. Of course I gave up that idiot shtick knowing full well nobody was going to state the theory. So I stated it, along with some other crap. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > AGW theory (theory of anthropogenic global warming) predicts certain changes that show the change is due to increased greenhouse gas emissions from human beings. As well as deforestation and land use changes. It’s a vital theory in that natural climate change does not show the same signs, and it is a key point in presenting evidence for AGW. Since obviously the climate of the planet has changed a lot, including drastic changes that dwarf anything we have ever experienced, the human signal is essential to knowing if, and to what degree, human activities are changing things. > > This can easily be illustrated by an example most people can grasp. (that the resident “internet agw experts” never talk about the essential facts is quite telling btw) > > When monitoring a stream for flow rate, quantity, quality of the water and wildlife, certain markers reveal human activity as a cause of pollution and damage to the stream system. When these are observed we know somewhere upstream or in the atmosphere there is an [Anthropogenic](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anthropogenic) source. Mercury, arsenic, lead or toxic chemical compounds that don’t exist in nature are a sure sign. Acidity from the sulfur in fuels can be detected, even mud and soil can be from clear cutting forest upstream. Fertilizer runoff, oils or gasoline, even human waste (shit and piss and such) can be measured. exotic wildlife that should not be in the stream is a human cause. Radionuclides, trash, drugs, ash and charcoal from human fires, all of it is an Anthropogenic issue. > > The other sources are considered natural, wild fires, volcanic dust or ash, landslides, the normal level of feces and organic waste. These can also damage a stream (or river). The important thing is, for this example, is that **We can detect the difference** , and know how much damage is from human activity. Be it directly upstream or a coal plant spewing mercury a hundred miles upwind. Or a leaking reactor in Fukushima. Or a medical waste processing plant. A tractor trailer full of Crisco or some kids pouring laundry detergent into the water, we can measure and know what the cause is. > > For AGW theory it’s not that cut and dried, but certainly there are specific predictions and markers that tell us that a change is due to a human cause. > > That the self proclaimed supporters of AGW theory don’t simply do this, but rather type out endless insults and dreary asides, that makes me sick. So there is clear concise answer. Not that it will make the slightest difference of course. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4085 "2015-04-01T18:42:19Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > When called on it in GD, he abandoned that thread without continuing the action. Called on what? You woo woos and your claims, I swear it’s like dealing with a religion. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4086 "2015-04-01T18:52:39Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > There’s an example of a false claim, which of course has no evidence. It’s easy enough to simply link to the next several post, and respond to what you disagree with. > > The next four posts, [one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18065163&postcount=20), [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18065671&postcount=25), [three](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18065707&postcount=26), [four](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18065851&postcount=28) > > Which one of those meets your accusation of a “a game of bait-and-switch”? Do you have any actual evidence? Typical. Your claim of a defense is pointing at posts 20, 25, 26, and 28 in a totally different thread than the one to which you linked that I pointed out began a bait-and-switch dance in post #716. So typical. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4087 "2015-04-01T19:16:41Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Typical. Your claim of a defense is pointing at posts 20, 25, 26, and 28 in a totally different thread than the one to which you linked So I made a mistake about which thread. You still haven’t provided anything. It’s a pattern. Instead of responding to what is on the page, you make things up, and provide no evidence. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4088 "2015-04-01T21:42:06Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > So I made a mistake about which thread. You still haven’t provided anything. It’s a pattern. Instead of responding to what is on the page, you make things up, and provide no evidence. Had you actually followed the path that I noted (which is still there in my post), instead of “conveniently” making a “mistake,” you could review exactly what I described and then invent a new explanation for what “really” was posted and see whether anyone agrees with your tale. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4089 "2015-04-01T21:57:15Z")
If you care so very much, just show us what you are talking about. Vague generalities is the realm of the climate alarmist, not science. From the great debate thread, where you tried to sidetrack the debate into a personal matter. > [@Facts won't change your mind about anything](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-wont-change-your-mind-about-anything/710293/262): > > Unless it’s in a general way, and based on behavior exhibited, I never attack or discredit anyone, because there is no way to actually know if somebody is anything other than wrong about something. In other words, I attack an argument, or a claim, not the person repeating it. > > Explaining why somebody is wrong on the internet is not attacking the person, nor is pointing out their errors an attempt to discredit the person. You seem to think attacking something false or misleading is an attack on a person. Yet you engage in personal slander, it’s ironic. If you actually read the thread, you would know my stand on arguing over this . > [@Facts won't change your mind about anything](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-wont-change-your-mind-about-anything/710293/225): > > The “global warming controversy” might seem like one of those things that just can’t actually be a bone of contention, in regards to the most basic metric, what thermometers record each and every day, including the high and low temps for each day. This is one of those things that would be considered “a fact”, **by most anyone**. Nobody actually argues over the fact that all over the world, and certainly in a huge number of places in the modern world, there are very accurate and advanced systems, designed to record data. > > But if something as basic as what was the temperature for a place and time is argued over, or worse, we find the data is “adjusted”, and changed, and then presented as “a fact”, and now the argument is over “what actually was the factual temperature”, it’s just crazy at that point. One might ask, why would anyone change the temperature record? > > If the argument is actually at that point, where one is forced to investigate, and one finds that yes, people are actually changing the past, and then presenting the changed data as “a fact”, it’s something to contemplate. If the persons presenting changed data as “a fact” then refuse to divulge both the raw data, and how and why they insist their version is “more true”, it gets super crazy. It really does. > > Because one the one hand you have somebody telling you something, that you have to take their word for it, and on the other, actual factual records that don’t show what they are claiming. And yes, this is a perfect example of when facts just won’t matter. If you can change “the facts” at will, make them different, then facts certainly don’t matter. > > I mean, if the past is fluid, something that can just be changed, and then we are expected to just believe the new version, then what is a fact starts to become unclear. That the same persons insisting we believe them also become insulting and angry when faced with skepticism, then it really gets interesting. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4090 "2015-04-01T23:00:06Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > If you care so very much, just show us what you are talking about. Vague generalities is the realm of the climate alarmist, not science. From the great debate thread, where you tried to sidetrack the debate into a personal matter. > You seem to think attacking something false or misleading is an attack on a person. Yet you engage in personal slander, it’s ironic. > > If you actually read the thread, you would know my stand on arguing over this . I do not recall accusing you of attacking posters, only of making snide comments. However, if I have accused you of personal attacks, it would have been in response to personal attacks, not to challenges to arguments. As to your silly claims of “slander” [sic], the other posters can actually read what each of us has posted. I’ll just let you keep flapping away, here. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4091 "2015-04-02T05:51:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This was a perfecly apt post, but it was undermined by the way he attempted to use it as an attack on… > [@tomndebb](#): > > I do not recall accusing you of attacking posters, only of making snide comments. :rolleyes: > [@tomndebb](#): > > Had you actually followed the path that I noted . :rolleyes: > [@tomndebb](#): > > Understanding is not what he seeks. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4092 "2015-04-02T21:54:05Z")
Those are attacks? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4093 "2015-04-02T22:16:31Z")
Rolleyes icons are responses? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4094 "2015-04-03T09:45:00Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Those are attacks? I wouldn’t wait on a response. When somebody is trying to be understood, and make a point, they are quite happy to quote and cite what they are talking about. Vague unsubstantiated claims are the hallmark of woo woos, who hate specific and clear debates. Even when directly asked, they twist and turn, and at all cost avoid making a claim that can be investigated. If there was an actual example, why not just use it? > [@tomndebb](#): > > As I noted, above, understanding is not his goal. The irony of it all. > [@tomndebb](#): > > When called on it in GD, he abandoned that thread without continuing the action. Called on what? Of course we can’t tell, because there is no quote, and certainly no specific claim. That is idiocy, and one reason I am so sarcastic. It’s not hard to quote somebody, and then comment. For example, in the thread in which some idiot claims I attacked people, post 7 says > [@Facts won't change your mind about anything](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-wont-change-your-mind-about-anything/710293/7): > > Frankly, the situation with the OP is a good example of this. It doesn’t matter how many facts or how much evidence people put up to show that anthropogenic climate change is happening. The OP won’t believe it, and he’ll downplay or ignore any facts that show it. See? It’s easy to show people what you mean, what you are speaking of. What post of mine attacks anyone in the thread? Just quote it. Because making shit up and not providing sources is ignorant. How that for a clear and understandable post? Anyone having trouble following? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4095 "2015-04-03T09:49:39Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Rolleyes icons are responses? They are the best response to trolls, if you are going to feed them, give them an eye roll, laugh and move on. Life is short, enjoy it. [NYT article on warmer winters](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/02/09/sunday-review/postcards-from-milder-winters-recent-and-future.html?_r=1) FEB. 8, 2014 Now isn’t that ironic? Considering the current winter? Sea ice on Long Island, records broken for cold and snow, it’s like Mother Nature has a sense of humor. (unless you are in California, where it’s not funny at all) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4096 "2015-04-03T10:08:12Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > > > Those are attacks? > > I wouldn’t wait on a response. When somebody is trying to be understood, and make a point, they are quite happy to quote and cite what they are talking about. And, as we see, here, FXMastermind has chosen not to quote or cite what he is talking about, quoting only out of context phrases, instead. Again he provides his own best example of what he claims to criticize. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4097 "2015-04-03T10:31:54Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > (And, ironically, as the thread progressed, he demonstrated his own inability to reconcile his (expressed) beliefs with the facts: Again, what are you talking about? In that thread, somebody asked me to present two facts supporting “the AGW argument”, which was actually a sidetrack and off topic, but even so, I asked them to define what they meant by “the AGW argument”. They simply refused to answer. In fact, they insisted I define it. My response is easy to comprehend. > [@Facts won't change your mind about anything](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/facts-wont-change-your-mind-about-anything/710293/75): > > Patent nonsense. Another example of what one finds all the time, in which even the most basic things are somehow a matter of great contention. Or for some reason, obscured behind unclear language and frivolity. Or a subject of word games. > > If the most dire predictions are correct, we are discussing the biggest real threat ever known for mankind. Or at the very least the biggest threat we can do something about (as opposed to comet impacts, super volcanoes, an ice age, or a bio-engineered smallpox/super infuenza hybrid) > > OK that last one we can also do something about. > > But the ever present baffling behavior? What do you mean by AGW? Anything other than a concise and understandable answer, (or at least a link to a source you got your idea from), is ridiculous behavior, considering you believe it’s a huge threat, and an important issue. Very important. > > Who would pass up a chance to state the problem clearly? > > It makes no sense. See how easy it is to use a cite to explain your point? Why would anyone evade and avoid just saying what they are talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4098 "2015-04-03T20:53:09Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > . . . (unless you are in California, where it’s not funny at all) [Well, I’m finding this kinda funny…](http://www.ryot.org/california-drought-leads-many-paint-grass-green/779521) (People painting their lawns green.) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4099 "2015-04-04T00:01:06Z")
I let a realtor talk me into painting my grass green when I was listing a home in Portland in July (when, without sprinklers, lawns inevitably turn brown). It wasn’t…_entirely_ awful. Just mostly. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4100 "2015-04-04T01:22:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Typical. Your claim of a defense is pointing at posts 20, 25, 26, and 28 in a totally different thread than the one to which you linked that I pointed out began a bait-and-switch dance in post #716. > > So typical. Let us not forget this remarkable line of reasoning: > [@FXMastermind](#): > > If you can explain to me two things, I will never be mean to you again. > > What does he actually mean by “the extra snow can easily be order 10% or more from the climate change component”? Did he mean to say “over”? Because that doesn’t make much more sense. Also, over can’t be turned into order, the number of letters is different. And the r is too far away from the v on a keyboard. > > And why would people link to that page, but not bother to tell Kevin he has a typo in his article? > [@Skywatcher](#): > > Speaking of “typos”: > > > [@FXMastermind](#): > > > > That is an obvious typo. Should have read “nobody is saying the interior of Antarctica **isn’t** dry”, as the source I used explained. > > > [@Skywatcher](#): > > > > Yet somehow not obvious enough for you to go back and fix it while the edit window was open? :dubious: > [@Skywatcher](#): > > You left off three characters, one clear on the opposite side of the keyboard, and inverted the meaning which you supposedly intended! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=204) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=206)