# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 226
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4501 "2015-08-05T16:19:16Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > …you have to define “this global warming” before you can understand why I am sick of it. And that’s very very complex… There’s the problem, right there! Your viewpoints on global warming is a complex tapestry of subtle interconnections. Not so much lacking in nuance but burdened with a surfeit of nuance, too intricate for our stunted minds to grasp. What you need is a better board, where your stunning insights will be recognized and applauded! Your brilliance is wasted here, you need to hang with the smartest, hippest people on the planet…oh, wait. Forgot. Nope, you’re screwed. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4502 "2015-08-05T16:20:47Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > He’s the kid in the back of the classroom who goes _\BULLSHIT!\_ into his sleeve. Only now, his sleeve is coated with mucus and nobody ever laughs anymore. That’s an excellent description of the one liners here. They can’t even follow the conversation, but they just have to say something, because they need attention. When faced with 20 lines of text (not paragraphs) which include scientific sources, they get this dumb look on their face. Then they just have to say something. Not about the greatest threat to mankind ever, oh no, they can’t be bothered lifting a finger to learn about that. But they always have time to pass wind. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4503 "2015-08-05T16:49:48Z")
**FX** , you’re a fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4504 "2015-08-05T16:56:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > **andros** : Absolutely. A good many of us remember when Los Angeles was a big bowl of brown air, and when Lake Erie was a nasty bowl of grey slime. > > The mainstream ecology movement has done wonders. > > (Acid rain still seems to be a problem, though. We’re still burning coal and ducting the smoke away via very tall smokestacks. This just spreads the combustion chemicals farther, where they accumulate in rainwater.) > > We’re much better off than we were, but there are still some nasty issues to address. Very well stated, the question is whether carbon dioxide pollution in the atmosphere is as nasty as Oakridge or Hanford, and where our tax money should be spent today. I think the recent Obama administration policies concerning cutting back on coal production is GREAT, but maybe 30 years too late. * * * I’m sick of this global warming because it’s a good thing for humanity, we’re at the dawn of a new Golden Age of the human condition … belch that CO[sub]2[/sub], suckers, I dare you. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4505 "2015-08-05T17:07:22Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > As I’m sure anyone by now can tell, has no thesis, let alone an alternate theory. He’s the kid in the back of the classroom who goes _\BULLSHIT!\_ into his sleeve. Only now, his sleeve is coated with mucus and nobody ever laughs anymore. Forget it, **VT** , it’s The Bozo Show. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4506 "2015-08-05T17:57:36Z")
I grew up with Bozo. I knew Bozo. _Bozo’s Circus_ was a favorite of mine. **FXMastermind** , you are no Bozo. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4507 "2015-08-05T18:11:12Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > We’re treating the Earth as a perfect black-body radiator, which is a closed system. Reminds me of a joke: A physicist, a chemist and an economist are stranded on a desert island with no food but a can of beans. The physicist thinks for a while then says “I’ve calculated the precise height we need to throw the can in the air so that when it comes down and hits a rock it’ll burst open”. The chemist also thinks for a while and says “I’ve calculated the precise amount of time we need to leave the can in the fire so that the contents expand and the can bursts open.” The economist also thinks for a while and then says “assume the existence of a can opener…” Anyway, good rebuttal, **watchwolf49**. You’ve spotted the flaw in his argument—_he’s making the wrong assumptions_! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4508 "2015-08-05T18:34:20Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I grew up with Bozo. I knew Bozo. _Bozo’s Circus_ was a favorite of mine. > > **FXMastermind** , you are no Bozo. 😃 No, not Bob Bell’s Bozo. He’s the grand marshal of this parade of clowns, that makes him a syndicated Bozo. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4509 "2015-08-05T18:35:51Z")
I can totally relate when people say it’s hard to understand the point. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Energy is not conserved in the earth’s atmosphere. > [@watchwolf49](#): > > The pseudo forces you rely on for your pseudo theory is technically called pseudo science, please tell Big Foot we miss him. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Trouble is…you’re treating open systems as if they’re closed. > > Viewing the earth alone, energy is not conserved, as heat flows outward due to radioactive decay. > [@watchwolf49](#): > > We’re treating the Earth as a perfect black-body radiator, which is a closed system. Can we get a wrap up of what the argument is about? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4510 "2015-08-05T21:54:10Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > We’re treating the Earth as a perfect black-body radiator, which is a closed system. . . . We are? There’s no sunlight? Why is it warmer in the daytime than at night? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4511 "2015-08-05T22:09:33Z")
I have the solution, but it only works in the case of spherical cows in a vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4512 "2015-08-05T22:15:58Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > We are? There’s no sunlight? Why is it warmer in the daytime than at night? Don’t dismiss this out of hand. It’s actually a brilliant idea. As **Evil Economist** suggests, all we have to do is ignore the effects of the sun and we can totally solve global warming. Scientists have been wasting all this time being hilarious, and the answer was right under their noses. All it needed was an idiot with a complete lack of understanding of basic scientific terms to jumble them together in a nonsensical way. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4513 "2015-08-05T22:45:04Z")
The Sun is way too far away to contribute any energy to our closed system. It is kind of a miracle to me that I can even see it’s light. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4514 "2015-08-05T23:26:01Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Can we get a wrap up of what the argument is about? If your climate theory doesn’t work when energy’s conserved, you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4515 "2015-08-05T23:43:00Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > If your climate theory doesn’t work when energy’s conserved, you’re wrong. That’s a very good point. Warren M. Washington notes in Appendix C of _An Introduction to Three-dimensional Climate Modeling_ that this is modeled “reasonably well”, and that in climate models energy is “approximately conserved”. But since “… changes in the energy balance of the climate system are not explicitly considered”, [some people want to use other methods](http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2011/dec/07/energy-balance-points-to-man-made-climate-change) to determine the cause of changes. Thanks for the insight. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4516 "2015-08-05T23:56:23Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > For comedic value. Well now the problem has become obvious. You aren’t funny. Not even close. > [@TroutMan](#): > > Nah, I’m just joshing. I didn’t expect anything else from you. > [@TroutMan](#): > > We can only dream. > [@TroutMan](#): > > Tread lightly. He might be one of those rubber people. If you’re glue, you could be up shit creek. None of your one liner shit is funny. This clip (from 2010) is funny You are not. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4517 "2015-08-06T00:12:09Z")
The tactic of “you are are confusing and make no sense” has come up before of course. It’s a rather easy one to expose, much like the “you are a paid shill” nonsense, each person who does it seems to think they invented it. Here’s a look back in time, where somebody easily solved the problem. Post are edited because of length, but the links work fine. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Fine by me. > > **FX** , I’ve been attributing a number of positions to you – and while I figure I’m right, I could be wrong. Here’s what I’ve concluded: you > … > > Have I accurately summed up your position? > [@FXMastermind](#): > > A main point not included would be that the unexpected and unexplained observed temperature trends do not fit with the models, nor the theory of global warming. This means either we can’t actually measure the global temperature, or the theory is wrong. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > Also, even if at some point we can say with certainty, “the assumptions about changes from greenhouse forcing were wrong”, that isn’t going to remove the greenhouse theory, nor the concerns about global climate change from changing the atmosphere. It just means nature behaves in ways we still don’t understand. > > If Cohen (and others) are correct about why we are seeing current climate change, it means the theory was wrong. But in science, this just means the theory will be changed. We will not throw out all of physics, and it certainly won’t change the facts. When somebody describes this as “being a Bozo” or whatever fuckhead idea they come up with, it says more about them than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4518 "2015-08-06T00:31:58Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > When somebody describes this as “being a Bozo” or whatever fuckhead idea they come up with, it says more about them than anything else. When one person says this about everyone else, then yup, I’ll give you this. When everyone else says it about you, then maybe it’s time to reevaluate. Guess which of these is pertinent to you. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4519 "2015-08-06T02:14:46Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > If your climate theory doesn’t work when energy’s conserved, you’re wrong. The prevailing climate theory works perfectly well under the law of conservation of energy. Energy is not conserved in the earth’s atmosphere. Energy also isn’t conserved in your bathtub, and for the same reason: external sources of heat exist. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2015, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4520 "2015-08-06T06:54:12Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > OK now you are talking about weather, something that is more complicated than climate, and a source of many many misconceptions and ideas. No, I am not talking about weather, though I can see why you might think that, considering I used the words ‘warm front’- usually a weather, and not a climate, phenomenon. Allow me to clarify. Consider [Charles’ Law](http://www.chemteam.info/GasLaw/Gas-Charles.html): > [@](#): > > The mathematical form of Charles’ Law is: V ÷ T = k > > This means that the volume-temperature fraction will always be the same value if the pressure and amount remain constant. > > Let V1 and T1 be a volume-temperature pair of data at the start of an experiment. If the volume is changed to a new value called V2, then the temperature must change to T2. > > The new volume-temperature data pair will preserve the value of k. The ChemTeam does not care what the actual value of k is, only that two different volume-temperature data pairs equal the same value and that value is called k. > > So we know this: V1 ÷ T1 = k > > And we know this: V2 ÷ T2 = k > > Since k = k, we can conclude that V1 ÷ T1 = V2 ÷ T2. V is volume of gas, T is temperature in Kelvin. If we know the volume and temperature of a mass of gas, we can easily predict its volume at a different temperature. What is the [Arctic Circle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Circle)? For my explanation, this is the relevant part: > [@](#): > > The area north of the Arctic Circle is about 20,000,000 km2 (7,700,000 sq mi) and covers 4% of the Earth. I am going to calculate the expansion of the volume of air 1 mile thick over the arctic circle with a change of 1 degree Celsius. Google tells me the average temperature in the Arctic Circle is -34 C in winter and ~4 C in summer. The overall average is about -15 C, I will run with that. That is slightly flawed, but this is just a ferinstance calculation, relax. -15 C equals 258.15 K, [link](http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/temperature/celsius-to-kelvin.htm). The volume of the Arctic atmosphere 1 mile deep is 7,700,000 cubic miles. Let’s run the numbers: V1= 7,700,000 sq miles. T1= 258.15 T2= 259.15 (a 1 degree C increase). V2= (V1/T1)\*T2 = 7,729,828. So, for every degree Celsius increase in temperature, the Arctic atmosphere increases in volume by 29,828 cubic miles. So, when I say, “warm front”, I don’t mean it in the usual meteorological way. I mean it in the long-term sense, the sense in which the Arctic is warming, and how, over time, large volumes of really cold air push outward via expansion as understood through Charles’ Law. Your links point out that the equator gets more sunlight than the poles. But, what is important here is “the delta”. If you have studied Calculus or especially Differential Equations, you are familiar with the Greek letter Delta (which I don’t know how to produce with my keypad, so I am going to continue to call it “the Delta of \_\_\_\_\_.”) The Arctic is _changing_ in a way the rest of the world is not. Ice that used to reflect sunlight back into space is disappearing for parts of the year, such that the _change_ in the amount of heat captured via sunlight in this region is greater than the change in other regions. And so the Arctic can be viewed as a region that drives global climate change. I’ll go more in-depth on this last point later if you want, it is getting late. Point is, I am talking about a climate effect. As the Arctic warms, cold air is pushed south via atmospheric expansion, which isn’t fully countered by expansion of the rest of the atmosphere because of its own global warming, because of the greater Delta of the Arctic atmosphere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=225) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=227)