# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 232
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4621 "2015-08-22T03:24:28Z")
Did you hear that last July was Earth’s hottest month ever? Each of of the months preceding it were their hottest ever as well. > **[NOAA: July hottest month on record, and 2015 could be hottest year | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/20/us/noaa-global-climate-analysis/index.html?eref=rss_us)** > > July saw the highest average global temperatures since record-keeping began, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reported Thursday. This of course doesn’t answer the key question: What was it like in FX’s driveway? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4622 "2015-08-22T03:42:29Z")
There’s this small town in New Hampshire that has had temperatures below the average historical temperature there for 150 of the 233 days this year\*, which absolutely disproves global warming. \*No there isn’t, but **FXMastermind** has declared that it’s okay to make up facts, because parody, tm. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4623 "2015-08-22T04:25:50Z")
We’ve already heard enough about the “hockey stick”, so how about we call this Atlanta anomaly the “Cracker Barrel”? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4624 "2015-08-22T06:12:00Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The high arctic was ice-free around 1000 AD-Viking explorers ranged as far north as Ellesmere Island (Viking cairns have been found there). Southern Greenland was forested, and rye could be grown there. Somehow, the Arctic managed to warm itself-without benefit of human-produced CO2. And the “hottest July”-by 1/7 of a degree? Surely, this is a jest! > BTW, melting coastal ice in Greenland is making mining and mineral exploration possible-looks like things are looking up for the poor Greenlanders! An absurd post! First of all, surely, if there was a warm period around 1000 AD, there was a mechanism that brought it about. I can speculate about undersea earthquakes or volcanoes which unleashed huge deposits of frozen methane to the surface, warming the planet via greenhouse gasses for a few generations before all that dissipated. I don’t know for sure. Do you? In any case, we know the mechanism for modern AGW- CO2 and other greenhouse gasses. Human industry is increasing the concentration of these gasses in the atmosphere. This doesn’t negate other climate and weather mechanisms, it is simply superimposed upon them. But, being able to access Ellesmere Island is not the same as what is being discussed here- periods of an entirely ice-free arctic sea. I hope you can see the differences between the two situations. Anyway, the Inuit culture dates back 10,000 years. Obviously it survived the 1000 AD warm period. Given the opportunity, Inuits would continue to live in the way to which they are accustomed. They don’t want farming and mineral exploration, they want to go on with their way of life. From what I’ve read, the general mood is in the direction of suicidal that they likely can’t. I don’t know how you can assume that members of perhaps the oldest culture on Earth would be happy to adopt the values of **ralph124c**. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4625 "2015-08-22T06:24:24Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > And the “hottest July”-by 1/7 of a degree? Surely, this is a jest! Well, it’s a rather deceptive sort of a jest, really, since instead of showing the data, which is quite interesting, the sound bite is “warmest EVER!”, which of course it isn’t, no matter how much it’s repeated. Ad Nauseam, Ad Infinitum. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4626 "2015-08-22T08:14:38Z")
[But](http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2015/08/20/july-record-warm/32045131/)… > [@](#): > > July was the hottest month worldwide since records began being kept in 1880, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced Thursday. > [@](#): > > Last month also marked the 39th consecutive July — and 365th consecutive month — with a global temperature that was above average. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4627 "2015-08-22T14:07:37Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > [But](http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2015/08/20/july-record-warm/32045131/)… > > > [@](#): > > > > July was the hottest month worldwide since records began being kept in 1880, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced Thursday. > > > [@](#): > > > > Last month also marked the 39th consecutive July — and 365th consecutive month — with a global temperature that was above average. Nice try. Tell that to the good people of New Hampshire. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4628 "2015-08-22T15:23:45Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > [But](http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2015/08/20/july-record-warm/32045131/)… Yeah, but how hot was it in the Mesozoic, smart guy? It’s certainly important for some reason, and I bet there’s a wall of text coming to explain why. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4629 "2015-08-22T15:32:55Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > In any case, we know the mechanism for modern AGW- CO2 and other greenhouse gasses. Human industry is increasing the concentration of these gasses in the atmosphere. This doesn’t negate other climate and weather mechanisms, it is simply superimposed upon them. Further, the Alarmist’s subspecies of AGW theory requires the atmosphere to respond very slowly to the elevated CO[sub]2[/sub] concentrations. such that it will take decades for temperatures to increase. So we have to stop **RIGHT NOW** or we’re all fucked, there could be a “tipping point” and temps will boom zoom to the moon go. Marriage will cease to exist then … > [@TroutMan](#): > > Yeah, but how hot was it in the Mesozoic, smart guy? It’s certainly important for some reason, and I bet there’s a wall of text coming to explain why. Just read the Bible where it describes the Garden of Eden. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4630 "2015-08-22T19:29:16Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Further, the Alarmist’s subspecies of AGW theory requires the atmosphere to respond very slowly to the elevated CO[sub]2[/sub] concentrations. such that it will take decades for temperatures to increase. So we have to stop **RIGHT NOW** or we’re all fucked, there could be a “tipping point” and temps will boom zoom to the moon go. What’s with all the labeling of people who follow this issue as ‘alarmist’ or ‘hysterical’ and the like? There are potentially catastrophic consequences to warming. For all we know, we have passed a tipping point already, with melting arctic ice begetting more melting ice until… yeah, I’m not sure what. But if the oceans warm significantly, there is the possibility that undersea methane will melt, which really could result in a runaway greenhouse effect. If it takes 200 or 1000 years for that to play out, it is still the height of irresponsibility to let it happen. As it stands, the only thing I know for sure will happen is increased temperatures and rising sea levels. Some people have made glib comparisons to Amsterdam’s sea walls, as if that could be a solution for the 75% of the world’s population that live near the coasts. The consequences we can be fairly sure of are bad enough. It isn’t ‘alarmism’ to note a problem and set out to do something about it. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4631 "2015-08-22T20:34:47Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > What’s with all the labeling of people who follow this issue as ‘alarmist’ or ‘hysterical’ and the like? That’s a complicated question, and has an even more complicated answer. It might be best to [read a book on it](http://www.amazon.com/Global-Warming-Alarmists-Skeptics-Deniers-Geoscientist/dp/1937327035), by two educated and intelligent people who spent a lot of time and effort on it, because the answer is complicated. Myself, I use all kinds of negative words, mostly because it’s amusing, and it counters the fuckhead tactic of labeling “enemies” with negative words, like troll, or denier, or whatever some fuckhead comes up with. It doesn’t actually mean you are a fuckhead, because only a real moron would call somebody a moron. Insults and bile are about the last thing that will sway somebody, with facts being the actual last thing that will matter. It’s probably best [to not even use labels](https://theconversation.com/deniers-vs-alarmists-its-time-to-lose-the-climate-debate-labels-37765), but good luck with that. Because there is no way [fuckhead alarmists](http://www.stopthedenial.com/2015/03/denier-or-skeptic-alarmist-or-realist-climate-labels/) are going to stop using denier as their word of choice, for everybody who doubts them , you know, those expert know-everything-about-the-future fuckheads who have the one and only true truth and are authorities here to save us from the evil fossil fuels. Those fuckheads aren’t planning on stopping the insult wars. Oh hell no. In fact, they are ramping it up as we speak. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4632 "2015-08-23T02:36:40Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > What’s with all the labeling of people who follow this issue as ‘alarmist’ or ‘hysterical’ and the like? _They_ started it … honest, I’m telling the truth here … I read on the AP that carbon dioxide was the most abundant greenhouse gas and I thought that was wrong. So I innocently asked in one of the global warming threads and next thing I knew there were 20 posts calling me a denier and all kinds of other nasty things. It doesn’t matter how badly I reacted, _they_ started it, it’s all _their_ fault. Pffff, accidentally use a maybe little too harsh language five times every sentence for a post or two and now I’m a “troll” forevermore. It’s not my fault, I swear, I wouldn’t lie about such a thing. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > There are potentially catastrophic consequences to warming. For all we know, we have passed a tipping point already, with melting arctic ice begetting more melting ice until… yeah, I’m not sure what. But if the oceans warm significantly, there is the possibility that undersea methane will melt, which really could result in a runaway greenhouse effect. If it takes 200 or 1000 years for that to play out, it is still the height of irresponsibility to let it happen. I’d love to hear about the “tipping point”, what I have read about it universally violates the conservation of energy. There’s hydrothermogoddamics going on here and the energy to drive a tipping point has to come from someplace. I’m afraid if you’re relying on solar energy, then you’ll need to describe the mechanism where this energy is being diverted to the tipping point. … and I’m not sure if the fossil fuels we do have will last 1,000 years. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > As it stands, the only thing I know for sure will happen is increased temperatures and rising sea levels. Some people have made glib comparisons to Amsterdam’s sea walls, as if that could be a solution for the 75% of the world’s population that live near the coasts. The consequences we can be fairly sure of are bad enough. It isn’t ‘alarmism’ to note a problem and set out to do something about it. Temperatures have been rising, sea levels have been rising, there’s nothing new with this. Humans have survived and humans have thrived. How can we honestly say that humans advanced by leaps and bounds _in spite_ of global warming. Seems to me it is better to say humans have advanced by leaps and bound _because_ of global warming. Do I really deserve to be called a trolling denialist just because I’m optimistic? It’s not just Amsterdam, it’s the whole county … the whole _fucking_ country … just how hard can it be? … have you ever been to New Orleans, Sacramento … if you build your goddamn city ten feet below _current_ sea level, you’re gonna get flooded … what kind of stupid motherfucker would do that and then what? … _fucking_ whine about it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4633 "2015-08-23T02:44:43Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > …who have the one and only true truth and are authorities here to save us from the evil fossil fuels… Not so much about saving you. If we could figure out a way that you don’t take us with you, that would work. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4634 "2015-08-23T07:03:27Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I’d love to hear about the “tipping point”, what I have read about it universally violates the conservation of energy. There’s hydrothermogoddamics going on here and the energy to drive a tipping point has to come from someplace. I’m afraid if you’re relying on solar energy, then you’ll need to describe the mechanism where this energy is being diverted to the tipping point. I’m not sure what your concern is. The Earth’s temperature will rise and fall until it is in equilibrium. The equilibrium temperature is determined by albedo, greenhouse gases, etc. “Tipping point”, I think refers to conditions where a gas like methane is excreted from storage far faster than it can be sequestered. The extra heat comes from the Sun. It is precisely the imbalance between heat in and heat out that causes the Earth rises to a new equilibrium temperature. The Sun’s heat is enormous. With about 0.5% imbalance, the excess heat, 10 zettajoules per year, would be enough to melt about 20 trillion tonnes of ice pack per year (though only a ballpark 5% of the imbalance is spent melting ice.) A _single year_ of _full_ solar energy represents _enough heat to melt all the ice on the planet_. This is a far-fetched scenario of course, but should dampen your concern that “there isn’t enough energy.” ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4635 "2015-08-23T14:41:56Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The Earth’s temperature will rise and fall until it is in equilibrium. The equilibrium temperature is determined by albedo, greenhouse gases, etc. “That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons history has to teach.” - Aldous Huxley ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4636 "2015-08-23T15:49:33Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m not sure what your concern is. The Earth’s temperature will rise and fall until it is in equilibrium. The equilibrium temperature is determined by albedo, greenhouse gases, etc. “Tipping point”, I think refers to conditions where a gas like methane is excreted from storage far faster than it can be sequestered. This is exactly my position. At any given instant in time, and considering _all_ the factor that effect climate, there will be an equilibrium temperature for the atmosphere. If the actual temperature is below equilibrium, then the Earth will retain solar energy until the atmosphere reaches this equilibrium temperature. If the temperature is above equilibrium, then the Earth will shed the solar energy. Now I generally try to avoid calling the fuckhead Alarmist fuckheads because even in the fuckhead Pit there’s fuckhead limits to fuckheading the fuckheads [x5]. So in their jargon, tipping point is the point where some manner of positive feedback mechanism kicks in, such that temperatures will rise up beyond the equilibrium and keep climbing, in violation of any equilibrium state. My contention is that this feedback mechanism requires _additional_ energy, a source above and beyond just solar radiation. Here’s where the “methane disaster” comes in, the equilibrium of temperature also provides equilibrium to methane. If we can “hockey stick” the temperatures, then of course methane will “hockey stick”. We can imagine all manner of catastrophe if we can randomly violate equilibrium. Bottom line is if your hockey stick draws blood, you _will_ get a double minor and find yourself bench-warming for the Moose Jaw Cowpies of the AHL in short order. So let’s keep our sticks on the ice. Another issue with methane is that the Earth’s atmosphere is an extremely corrosive environment. A rather wide variety of substances will oxidize when in contact with air. Methane is no exception and _in_ the atmosphere it will quickly combine with oxygen to form carbon dioxide. I believe I’ve read that the half-life of methane is only 17 years in the atmosphere, far shorter than any reasonable climatic time interval. So realistically, in the 100 or 1,000 year time interval, methane’s effect on temperature is almost exactly as though it were carbon dioxide. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4637 "2015-08-23T16:06:39Z")
Oh, goody! And since carbon dioxide is _not_ a greenhouse gas… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4638 "2015-08-23T19:12:20Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > This is exactly my position. At any given instant in time, and considering _all_ the factor that effect climate, there will be an equilibrium temperature for the atmosphere. If the actual temperature is below equilibrium, then the Earth will retain solar energy until the atmosphere reaches this equilibrium temperature. If the temperature is above equilibrium, then the Earth will shed the solar energy. It would be really interesting to see the scientific support for this odd (and clearly erroneous) misunderstanding of entropy. What is the point of “equilibrium” (in degrees Kelvin)? What determines this “equilibrium”? Who has determined what that point was and how do they know it? Why do Venus and Mars not share this point of “equilibrium”? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4639 "2015-08-23T19:22:47Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > It would be really interesting to see the scientific support for this odd (and clearly erroneous) misunderstanding of entropy. > > What is the point of “equilibrium” (in degrees Kelvin)? What determines this “equilibrium”? Who has determined what that point was and how do they know it? Why do Venus and Mars not share this point of “equilibrium”? Yeah, because something like “[Equilibrium Temperature of the Earth](http://www.slideshare.net/gbent/equilibrium-temperature-of-the-earth)” sounds crazy. It would be like figuring out the [Equilibrium Temperatures of Planets](http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/Academics/Astr221/SolarSys/equiltemp.html). Something like “[Planetary equilibrium temperature](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_equilibrium_temperature)” is the sort of thing you might find on Wikipedia. Or [in a science book](“earth’s equilibrium temperature”) or something. Them scientists, they even say that [Venus has an equilibrium temperature](https://books.google.com/books?id=UOsHAQAAMAAJ&q=%22venus+equilibrium+temperature%22&dq=%22venus+equilibrium+temperature%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIkL22wva_xwIVCZ6ACh2QkA7R) (40C) Stupid scientists ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/4640 "2015-08-23T20:28:16Z")
I did not say that I did not believe it could be true. I asked if he could provide supporting information for his claim. Thank you for providing that information. Of course, as Wikipedia notes: > [@](#): > > The planetary equilibrium temperature is a theoretical temperature that the planet would be at when considered simply as if it were a black body being heated only by its parent star. In this model, the presence or absence of an atmosphere (and therefore any greenhouse effect) is not considered, and one treats the theoretical black body temperature as if it came from an idealized surface of the planet. So the claim that extra heat will clearly be radiated away is not established. (And if the Equilibrium Temperature of Venus is 40C, it actually demonstrates that greenhouse gas overrides Equilibrium temperature as Venus is significantly hotter than 40C.) “Stupid scientists” is your claim, not mine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=231) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=233)