# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 251
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5001 "2015-10-04T12:27:55Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I’m not sure the example of the Key West PD supports your position. Why is it an abuse of RICO to go after the Chief there? I’m pretty sure all the other examples you give involved crimes in some way. Milliken was threatened with RICO prosecution, so he caved on the securities violations, not really an abuse … Are you posting just to keep up your post count? This statement does not even address my post. I’ll type slowly so you can follow: FXM noted that if RICO was used in a particular way, it would lead to an abuse of that law by attacking people not involved with organized crime. I noted that the abuse that concerned him was already a recurring phenomenon. He challenged my post. When I did not check in on this thread with sufficient haste, he whined that I had “still” not provided evidence. I provided support for my contention that RICO has been used to attack people and organizations that are clearly not associated with organized crime. In that post, I explicitly noted that the people might be guilty of crimes, although not of being part of organized crime. You now wander in to say that those attacked might have been guilty of something. So what? I never claimed tat they were innocent. The claim was that RICO was being used to attack people who were not members of or associated with organized crime. This inability to follow actual discussion does explain about 80% of the rest of your posts, however. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5002 "2015-10-04T13:24:55Z")
Which of the examples you give in post #4985 involves a lone operator? Or just leave it, it’s obvious you’ve never been involved in racketeering so anything you say about it will make you look like some tutti-fruity liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5003 "2015-10-04T13:37:08Z")
Posters like this really increase my desire for some means of voting people off this island. And for the record, I usually hate that kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5004 "2015-10-04T14:45:00Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > FXM noted that if RICO was used in a particular way, it would lead to an abuse of that law by attacking people not involved with organized crime. > I noted that the abuse that concerned him was already a recurring phenomenon. > He challenged my post. Wrong, so let me refresh your memory. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > Let’s be clear on this. Even if it’s true (which it probably actually is), even if a bunch of people are trying to cast doubt on climate change, and it’s to prevent higher taxes, or something, it doesn’t make that RICO, because it opens the door to go after anyone for any reason, using RICO laws, and now trying to sway public opinion is organized crime. > [@tomndebb](#): > > You’re too late. The Feds have been abusing that law in that way for decades. “and now **trying to sway public opinion is organized crime** ” “The Feds have been abusing that law **in that way** for decades” My response was to ask you for evidence. It’s still my response to you. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5005 "2015-10-04T14:59:10Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Wrong, so let me refresh your memory. > “and now **trying to sway public opinion is organized crime** ” > “The Feds have been abusing that law **in that way** for decades” > > My response was to ask you for evidence. It’s still my response to you. Your response was further evidence that you are intellectually disabled. No, trying to sway public opinion is not organized crime, and is not even illegal, you insufferable moron. The fact that you can’t understand that helps to explain this entire thread. Either that, or this is pages and pages of trolling for which you ought to be bounced. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5006 "2015-10-04T15:18:56Z")
Let’s be clear on this. Even if it’s true ( **which it probably actually is** ), even if a bunch of people are **trying to cast doubt on climate change** , and it’s to prevent higher taxes, or something, it doesn’t make that RICO, because it opens the door to go after anyone for any reason, using RICO laws, and now trying to sway public opinion is organized crime. > [@tomndebb](#): > > You’re too late. The Feds have been abusing that law in that way for decades. Really? Evidence? In case you somehow can’t see it, I agreed in principle, that there probably is a group of people, who are trying to cast doubt on climate change science, and then said “if it’s true”, so it’s not about the skeptics behavior (or fossil fuel companies, whomever), it’s about the law, and what is considered illegal. You claim it has already been happening. What’s the evidence of this? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5007 "2015-10-04T15:23:31Z")
RICO is about going after the boss man, the person ordering others to commit crimes, while they keep their hands clean. The issue in this case, is “what is the crime?”, not the issue of some wealthy fuckhole paying and ordering others to go forth and do something illegal. There is no doubt that is RICO, and should be prosecuted. What is the “illegal” part here? What is the criminal activity? And, as the example of [the Italian scientist jailed](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAAahUKEwiIkYbAj6nIAhXI1YAKHXYbDQY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2829107%2FScientists-jailed-manslaughter-did-not-predict-deadly-earthquake-Italy-killed-309-people-cleared.html&usg=AFQjCNEsNM9VVV3EDT8NulJxi1OOTpZq9Q&sig2=5JE9TIJqS31Z5rYOAZn0Eg), is the US now going to go after scientist and researchers as criminals, for not predicting the future right? For not warning of future events? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5008 "2015-10-04T17:34:52Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Wrong, so let me refresh your memory. > “and now **trying to sway public opinion is organized crime** ” > “The Feds have been abusing that law **in that way** for decades” > > My response was to ask you for evidence. It’s still my response to you. Actually, I speifically noted the point to which I was responding and asked whether that was what you meant. You claimed to have understood my point without clarifying that (you now claim) you meant something different. Par for the course with your trolling. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5009 "2015-10-04T21:58:51Z")
Nonsense. I am trying to get you to support what you claimed. But since you seem unable to simply do this, let me help you out. You claimed the Feds have already abused the RICO laws to target groups. The only example I can find is Big Tobacco. > [@](#): > > The DOJ then sued on the ground that the tobacco companies had engaged in a decades-long conspiracy to (1) mislead the public about the risks of smoking, (2) mislead the public about the danger of secondhand smoke; (3) misrepresent the addictiveness of nicotine, (4) manipulate the nicotine delivery of cigarettes, (5) deceptively market cigarettes characterized as “light” or “low tar,” while knowing that those cigarettes were at least as hazardous as full flavored cigarettes, (6) target the youth market; and (7) not produce safer cigarettes. > **[United States v. Philip Morris (1999) | After the landmark decision holding...](https://www.publichealthlawcenter.org/litigation-tracker/united-states-v-philip-morris-1999)** > > After the landmark decision holding major tobacco companies liable for violations of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (“RICO”), the tobacco industry attempted to vacate the remedies imposed by the court. > [@](#): > > Eight years ago, in 2006, US District Court Judge Gladys Kessler convicted the big cigarette companies and their trade and scientific groups of forming an illegal racketeering “enterprise” to defraud the American people and, among other things, ordered the cigarette companies to publish “corrective statements” telling the public that they had lied about the dangers of smoking, secondhand smoke, and nicotine addiction. (Judge Kessler also prohibited them from challenging the evidence that these statements are true, which is why the companies no longer do so.) > > Judge Kessler ordered the defendant tobacco companies to work with the Department of Justice and the public health intervenors to determine just how the corrective statements would be made on the internet, in print, and on television and radio. These negotiations have now concluded and a draft ruling submitted to the Court. > > The tobacco companies appealed Judge Kessler’s corrective statements on First Amendment grounds a year ago. That appeal has been on hold pending resolution of the implementation issues that this agreement resolves. That appeal will now likely proceed. > **[A step forward in implementing the RICO ruling against Big Tobacco](https://tobacco.ucsf.edu/step-forward-implementing-rico-ruling-against-big-tobacco)** I’m not sure what it all means, but certainly one thing they sued a company for basically telling big lies about their product. And a conspiracy to do so. Is that an abuse of the law in your opinion? (it’s the only example I can find, which is really strange) If not, then how does this apply to the letter demanding we go after anyone talking about climate in a manner that differs from what the Government says about it? And how is it not a 1st Amendment issue? Don’t get me wrong, if a big company, or government agency is deceiving us about risk, about actual damage from something they are doing, that should be illegal. It’s the presumption that it’s a crime for anyone to say something that differs from the alarmist predictions we hear all the time, from government and organizations, researchers and experts, that is the part **that seems onerous in the extreme**. If it’s just about going after coal pollution, that’s another matter. One could seek the same damage against anyone who lied about risks from all kinds of things. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5010 "2015-10-05T00:08:19Z")
I’m sure the libtards will call it cherry-picking, but with the crypto-Kenyan Alarmists predicting that “Climate [del]warming[/del] change” will increase storms and rainfall, I think the ongoing drought in South Carolina helps prove that the whole madness is just Al Gore’s wet dream. And BTW, I live in the tropics and sometimes it gets so cold here I have to get up and change the thermostat setting on my A/C. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5011 "2015-10-05T00:17:52Z")
08-21-2013 > [@septimus](#): > > Where I live is supposedly tropical, but it got so cold last night I had to get up and adjust the thermostat on the air conditioner. > [@septimus](#): > > And BTW, I live in the tropics and sometimes it gets so cold here I have to get up and change the thermostat setting on my A/C. You already used that joke. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5012 "2015-10-05T00:42:23Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > 08-21-2013 You already used that joke. You’re faulting someone else for being repetitive? Are you fucking kidding, troll? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5013 "2015-10-05T00:48:29Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m sure the libtards will call it cherry-picking, but with the crypto-Kenyan Alarmists predicting that “Climate [del]warming[/del] change” will increase storms and rainfall, I think the ongoing drought in South Carolina helps prove that the whole madness is just Al Gore’s wet dream. > > And BTW, I live in the tropics and sometimes it gets so cold here I have to get up and change the thermostat setting on my A/C. Poe’s Law strikes again: I honestly can’t tell if this is utterly stupid, or a brilliant parody of people who are utterly stupid. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5014 "2015-10-05T09:45:11Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Poe’s Law strikes again: I honestly can’t tell if this is utterly stupid, or a brilliant parody of people who are utterly stupid. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > It’s the goddamn internet, if you can’t look up basic facts, things easily verified, then you are not just a troll, you are a bad one. I was pretty sure he was being funny, but I also remembered that joke from the first time he used it. It took seconds to check all his other posts in the topic, and sure enough he also used the Kenyan joke as well before. Obviously he is using irony, or sarcasm, to make some point. What the point actually is, that will remain a mystery. But the quicl check on past behavior also reminded me he claims to be using the filter on my post, which means he saw only the quoted response above, so in his limited view of the Universe, the only thing he sees is a comment about how he is recycling his jokes. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5015 "2015-10-05T10:08:00Z")
Here, once more, are some scientific papers that attempt to explain why NH winters are trending colder, and note that the winter trend (centered on February) does not match global warming theory, or the consensus models about winter warming. [Cohen et al. 2008](http://web.mit.edu/jlcohen/www/papers/Fletcheretal2009.pdf) [Cohen et al.2012](http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/7/1/014007/pdf;jsessionid=4A06724CEA6FFE62101B4ACFDA079025.c1) [Cohen et al. 2014](http://web.mit.edu/jlcohen/www/papers/Cohenetal_NGeo14.pdf) [Cohen et al. 2014 supplement](http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v7/n9/extref/ngeo2234-s1.pdf) From the 2014 paper > [@](#): > > However, also evident in > Fig.\*3d,f is that the number of days continuously below freezing has > increased and the minimum temperatures have decreased since 1990. > Figure 3h also indicates that the frequency of unusually cold winter > months (colder than two standard deviations below the 1951–1980 > mean30) had reversed its longer-term downward trend by the end of > the 1990s. This trend reversal in cold extremes has coincided with an > acceleration in the rate of warming at high latitudes relative to the rest > of the Northern Hemisphere starting approximately in 1990 (Fig.\*2b). > As seen in Fig.\*2c, continental winter temperature trends since 1990 > exhibit cooling over the mid-latitudes, replacing the warming trends > observed over the longer period since 1960 (Fig.\*2a). While it seems repetitive, certainly a newcomer to the topic can’t be expected to read 5000 posts to try and make sense of the topic. The gist of the recent science concerning the obviously colder winters and record snowfall,\*\* is that it is due to an unexpected response to warming\*\*, and melting arctic sea ice. Early and heavy snowfall, mostly in Siberia, **leads to a negative feedback effect from increased water vapor** , resulting in a persitant Siberian high pressure system, which influences the entire Northern Hemisphere (NH) winter. The trend starts roughly in 1988, and is actually visible in the GISS maps, though none of this is considered consensus science yet. The cooling trend is centered on February, where it shows up easily using all data sources. Because of the extreme cold, there is more snow, and this acts as a feedback to make it colder. NH spring and summer show the reverse trend, with warming and much less snow. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5016 "2015-10-05T10:11:44Z")
To complete the topic, you have to grasp several other points. One) this was not predicted by the IPCC/consensus science Two) If it’s true, it means global warming is causing the extreme winters Three) If that is so, then complaining about record cold and snow, **means you are sick of this global warming** ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5017 "2015-10-05T14:37:52Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > …I’m not sure what it all means… Ah, a brief moment of reflection. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5018 "2015-10-05T14:44:31Z")
My knowledge and ability to know what is actually going on with big tobacco, the government, and what is really happening between them and the courts, is very small. I tend to just believe whatever the MSM tells me. _I mean, it’s not like anyone in business or the government ever would lie about anything_ Best to just believe whatever we are told. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5019 "2015-10-07T17:53:56Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No, trying to sway public opinion is not organized crime, and is not even illegal, Then what do you see is the crime they are talking about using RICO to go after them for? And do you think the feds have been abusing the RICO laws already? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/5020 "2015-10-08T04:21:58Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Then what do you see is the crime they are talking about using RICO to go after them for? I believe they have "… coordinated significant aspects of their public relations, scientific, legal, and marketing activity in furtherance of a shared objective — to . . . maximize industry profits by preserving and expanding the market for [oil products] through a scheme to deceive the public.” > [@](#): > > And do you think the feds have been abusing the RICO laws already? No. They have been using the RICO laws. And I realize I fell for your grasp for attention here, and you remain a useless troll we would all be better without. I wish you would go fuck a weather related disaster. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=250) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=252)