# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![statij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@statij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statij)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/741 "2013-10-29T23:20:00Z")
In addition to global warming, know what else sucks? Your shtick. It was never funny or even clever, and it’s really played out. Run along. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/742 "2013-10-30T00:25:29Z")
> [@Bob's Zombie](#): > > The ‘it was cold today, therefore no global warming!’ argument is the stupidest possible argument on the subject, I’m pretty sure saying ‘it was cold today, therefore it’s global warming’ sounds even worse. ---
**Author:** ![statij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@statij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statij)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/743 "2013-10-30T16:28:37Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I’m pretty sure saying ‘it was cold today, therefore it’s global warming’ sounds even worse. Nobody says that. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/744 "2013-10-30T16:40:50Z")
> [@statij](#): > > Nobody says that. You didn’t read before you posted that. Obviously. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/745 "2013-10-30T16:52:01Z")
Let’s make it easy on the slow kids. **Cold Winters Driven By Global Warming** [http://news.discovery.com/earth/cold-winter-snow-weather-global-warming-101222.htm](http://news.discovery.com/earth/cold-winter-snow-weather-global-warming-101222.htm) For advanced listeners only: **Researchers expected a colder winter — thanks to global warming**. [How to respond to people who say the cold weather disproves global warming | Grist](http://grist.org/news/how-to-respond-to-people-who-say-the-cold-weather-disproves-global-warming/) In a complex tango between ocean and atmosphere, **warming is causing icy polar air to be displaced southwards** , they contend. [Weather News | Weather Underground](http://www.wunderground.com/news/global-warming-winters-20130328) Yet some scientists, eyeing **the fourth year in a row of exceptionally harsh late-winter weather** in parts of Europe and North America, suggest **warming is precisely the problem**. [Is global warming causing harsher winters?](http://phys.org/news/2013-03-global-harsher-winters.html#jCp) **Cold Snaps, Global Warming Go Hand-in-Hand** [http://www.weather.com/news/nasa-cold-snaps-global-warming-20130129](http://www.weather.com/news/nasa-cold-snaps-global-warming-20130129) **The cold and snow are extreme this year**. Researchers say **this is due to global warming**. [http://www.thegwpf.org/global-warming-cold-winters-researchers-error/](http://www.thegwpf.org/global-warming-cold-winters-researchers-error/) There are a hundred more just like those, but hey, if you can’t grasp the concept yet, will it even matter? There are no less than half a dozen different hypothesis on the mechanism(s), but at this point, there is no doubt left that it is due to natural variation, so it has to be global warming. Follow the logic. Global warming is happening. We know this because most people believe it is so. Winters in the NH are trending colder with more snow. So, logic says it has to be due to global warming. And that kids, is how science is done. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/746 "2013-10-30T17:09:00Z")
If you still have any doubts, and you believe in “global warming”, nothing is more scientific than a scientists saying something is true. You know in your heart it’s true. > [@](#): > > **Michael Mann** , director of the Earth System Science Center at Pennsylvania State University. “As long as it’s cold enough to snow – which it will be in the winter – you potentially will get greater snowfalls.” > > **The reality is that such snowstorms often don’t occur despite global warming, but because of it**. “It’s basic physics, and it’s irrefutable,” Mann said. [http://wwwp.dailyclimate.org/tdc-newsroom/2013/02/blizzard-climate-connection](http://wwwp.dailyclimate.org/tdc-newsroom/2013/02/blizzard-climate-connection) See? Mann knows it’s true. > [@](#): > > A study of 20th century snowstorms, published in the August 2006 Journal of Applied Meteorology and Climatology – before the big storms of recent years – found that most major snowstorms in the United States occurred during warmer-than-normal years. The authors predicted that “ **a warmer future climate will generate more winter storms**.” So the next time somebody is bitching about how much snow there is, and how fucking cold it is, and they say something like “I am so fucking sick of this global warming”, or “Goddamn it, another 24 inches of global warming last night”, you can explain to them how because it is getting warmer, it is getting colder. Science bitches! ---
**Author:** ![statij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@statij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statij)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/747 "2013-10-30T18:14:31Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I’m pretty sure saying ‘it was cold today, therefore it’s global warming’ sounds even worse. I can read just fine. Nobody says that. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/748 "2013-10-30T19:24:21Z")
> [@statij](#): > > I can read just fine. Nobody says that. [UK Suffers Coldest March in 50 Years, Global Warming to Blame](http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/uk-suffers-coldest-march-in-50-years-global-warming-to-blame/) ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/749 "2013-10-30T19:27:02Z")
Oh sure the pedant will claim they don’t actually mean what they say. That saying “the record cold is due to global warming” isn’t the same thing as “it’s cold so it’s global warming”. The important thing is that you are right. At any cost. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/750 "2013-10-30T20:34:44Z")
How about “Globally Uncomfortable Climate” - that covers the heat and the cold or in Hollywood terms “A One and One Half Star Climate” ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/751 "2013-10-30T23:53:01Z")
If the data is correct, and I tend to assume there is no vast conspiracy to change weather records, the last two decades is a most unusual time. Spring and summer show clear warming trends, for most of the NH. But fall and winter show cooling trends for large portions of the NH. It’s not just people thinking the winters are getting worse, they actually are. Same for the snow. Clear trends in spring and summer, much less snow, melting glaciers and permafrost. But winter snow is trending up, with record amounts in some areas, and early and numerous blizzards. It certainly is making for a shitty climate. Hotter in summer, colder in winter. It also is making a lot of predictions about global warming and winter changes to be pure speculation. Or dead wrong if you will. The sickening part is, despite the obvious nature of the changes, until recently, the idiots preaching like they know everything hand waved away the winter problems, and insisted it wasn’t happening. OK some are still doing this. At least now, some climate researchers have at least admitted what the ordinary person has known for years. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/752 "2013-10-31T00:16:12Z")
Regarding climate models, I wonder what kind of tests could really be done to determine if the model is valid generally instead of just specific to the time frame used to test it? With limited data available (our one single past), how do you test? I guess you could take just 10% of the past to help create the model and then test against the other 90%. But then, what if the past is very specific to how we arrived at each point, shift some things around and maybe it starts heading a different direction. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/753 "2013-10-31T00:57:48Z")
There seems to be a lot of unknowns about climate, climate change, and what we are actually doing to our planet. The cocksure on both sides piss me off. One thing that stands out, when you actually look at the historic data, is that the current trends don’t match anything in the recent past (that we have good records for, like back to 1895). Which is why I think we are fucking up the atmosphere, just not in the way the AGW consensus predicted it would happen. This unhappy little conclusion places me in the unpleasant position of not agreeing with either side in the climate wars, which sort of sucks. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/754 "2013-11-02T17:25:36Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Regarding climate models, I wonder what kind of tests could really be done to determine if the model is valid generally instead of just specific to the time frame used to test it? One reason I focus on the winter time cooling trend, (which used to be only for the NH boreal winter), is that we can actually know what is happening each winter, rather than having to wait for some distant impossible to know future effect. [Record or extreme cold shows up right away](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-30/frost-bites-crops-in-nsw-and-victoria/5053672), due to the damage and deaths associated with it. Or [the economic loss from cold](http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/article/2013/10/29/587509_grain-and-hay.html). A heat wave or drought isn’t the immediate horrific disaster a late frost is, or an early snowstorm. It’s horribly ironic that the last decade was predicted by the “consensus” to be one of warm winters, reduced snow, later frosts and we were told that winter wheat was in danger from the lack of cold. In reality, we have seen a continuing trend of much worse winter weather. (aside from one anomaly) > [@](#): > > For the last month, successive frosts have damaged crops from Dubbo in western New South Wales, across to Goulburn and the Australian Capital Territory and down to Rutherglen in north-east Victoria. > > Some crops of wheat, canola and wine grapes have been totally wiped out, while other producers are reporting 20 to 30 per cent yield loss. > **[Frost bites Victorian and New South Wales farms](https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2013-10-31/frost-bites-crops-in-nsw-and-victoria/5053672?future=true&)** > > Severe and widespread frost has ruined hundred of thousands of hectares of crop across New South Wales and Victoria, costing producers millions of dollars. > [@](#): > > A similar frost in October, 2001, was estimated to have wiped $400-$500 million off the nation’s crop production. > > Department of Environment and Primary Industries seasonal variability agronomist Dale Grey said frost-affected districts in Victoria included Charlton, Serpentine, Elmore, Bendigo, Youanmite, St James, Dookie and Rutherglen. > > Severe frosts have also hit the Holbrook, Temora, Junee, Harden, Grenfell and Parkes districts in NSW. > > In the Wimmera, pulse crops were the hardest hit, while around Elmore, wheat crops were most affected. > > At Temora, canola crops fared worst, with losses ranging from minimal to total wipeouts. > > Canola crops in the Grenfell area of NSW, where temperatures plunged to -4.6C, faced total losses, while damage in wheat crops ranged from 60 per cent to 95 per cent. [http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/article/2013/10/29/587509\_grain-and-hay.html](http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/article/2013/10/29/587509_grain-and-hay.html) Such events used to be handwaved away by warmers, insisting the world is warming and such cold events are expected, not anything, meaningless and only used by “deniers” to cast doubt yadda yadda yadda But now, it’s happened over and over and over, it’s actually a trend. Winters, instead of becoming “milder”, warmer, less damaging, they have actually turned extremely bad in very large areas. Regions that really matter to civilization. At the same time, we see arctic warming in spring and summer. That the two are connected isn’t much of a stretch. The hypothesis that early heavy snow, due to open arctic waters, is strengthening the Siberian cold pole, makes sense. It doesn’t explain the SH cold however. The cooling around Antarctica is a whole nother situation. But enough time has passed that we can look at the data for the NH winters and know a change has happened. It’s no longer possible to be “natural variation”. It’s super ironic that it is quite possible, from a scientific standpoint, for our massive pollution levels, along with land use changes, concrete making, aircraft travel and changes to the world in general, we are influencing the climate in multiple ways. While the global warmers have denied and ignored all the effects of winter, they also shot themselves in the mouth in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/755 "2013-11-04T06:16:20Z")
Oh well, the freezing of the Antarctic Ocean is not explainable by any current AGW model. The water is either getting colder because of lower solar input, or some unknown mechanism. Since the southern polar region is mostly water (as compared to the Arctic), and water absorbs solar energy to a greater extent than land, and change in solar irradiance would be instantly noticeable. Meanwhile, China and India keep burning ll that Australian coal! ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/756 "2013-11-04T11:41:43Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Oh well, the freezing of the Antarctic Ocean is not explainable by any current AGW model. That isn’t going to stop anybody from explaining it. It used to be simple enough, Antarctica was melting away. > [@](#): > > The climate models runs for the IPCC’s Fourth Assessment Report suggest that, with an increase in greenhouse gases of 1 percent per year, annual mean surface air temperatures in the Antarctic sea-ice zone over the 21st century would increase by 0.2-0.3oC per decade (WMO 2007). There would be a corresponding decrease in the extent of sea ice. Large parts of the high interior of the Antarctic would experience surface air temperature rises of more than 0.3oC per decade (World Meteorological Organization 2007). In the real world, that isn’t what we are observing. [http://www.climate4you.com/Polar%20temperatures.htm#Diagram](http://www.climate4you.com/Polar%20temperatures.htm#Diagram) Antarctic MAAT The increase in sea ice is a real conundrum, if you believe CO2 drives the climate. In 2009 the world was still assured Antarctica was melting, there were still scare tactics going on about massive ice sheets breaking off, tipping points and global sea level rise disasters coming. [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v457/n7228/full/nature07669.html](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v457/n7228/full/nature07669.html) > **[National Geographic](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/)** > > Explore National Geographic. A world leader in geography, cartography and exploration. > **[Study Finds New Evidence of Warming in Antarctica (Published 2009)](https://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/science/earth/22climate.html?_r=0)** > > The conclusion of an analysis of 50 years of temperature data from the continent may help resolve a climate enigma. > **[Patrick Michaels: New data on Antarctic warming doesn't prove climate change](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/feb/06/antarctic-warming-climate-change)** > > Patrick Michaels: Antarctic warming isn't evidence of climate change – despite what scientists would have us believe [http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/01/21/eco.warmingantarctic/#cnnSTCText](http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/01/21/eco.warmingantarctic/#cnnSTCText) Even with the increasing sea ice, the increase in snow, the satellite data showing no warming, and the SH SSTs showing no warming, you can damn well be sure Antarctica is melting. Because the computers say it is. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/757 "2013-11-04T11:48:44Z")
The new “theory” about Antarctica is pretty sweet. (it isn’t actually called a theory, that was irony) Low ozone levels are hypothesized to explain the increase in the winds, the polar vortex that blows around the south pole. This is due to stratospheric heating, which increases the winds down below, which prevent the “warming” from reaching Antarctica. This is not a made up fact, it’s in a link in the previous post. It’s also “theorized” that in 60 years this will stop, after the ozone hole “heals”, which will be due to one simple reason. The world will run out of fossil fuels then. At which point global warming will hit Antarctica with full force. Don’t look at me like that. That is actually what the experts say. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/758 "2013-11-04T23:52:39Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > The new “theory” about Antarctica is pretty sweet. (it isn’t actually called a theory, that was irony) > > Low ozone levels are hypothesized to explain the increase in the winds, the polar vortex that blows around the south pole. This is due to stratospheric heating, which increases the winds down below, which prevent the “warming” from reaching Antarctica. This is not a made up fact, it’s in a link in the previous post. > > It’s also “theorized” that in 60 years this will stop, after the ozone hole “heals”, which will be due to one simple reason. The world will run out of fossil fuels then. At which point global warming will hit Antarctica with full force. > > Don’t look at me like that. That is actually what the experts say. In software parlance , this is called “massaging the model”. This is not science-it is a fancy attempt to dress up a dubious theory. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/759 "2013-11-05T16:06:18Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > This is not science-it is a fancy attempt to dress up a dubious theory. I don’t think it’s that simple, nor can it ever be made that simple. Despite what pop opinion and the incessant blogosphere prattle says, it’s just not simple. It’s huge, complicated, not well understood, and more than likely important as hell, to actually know what is happening with our planet. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/760 "2013-11-05T19:21:49Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I don’t think it’s that simple, nor can it ever be made that simple. Despite what pop opinion and the incessant blogosphere prattle says, it’s just not simple. > > It’s huge, complicated, not well understood, and more than likely important as hell, to actually know what is happening with our planet. It is simple-the model fails to jibe with the observation. That means either: -the model is incorrect (or) -the measurements are incorrect Note: all world temperature data from before about AD 1760 is conjecture. It is nice to speculate about what the summertime temperatures in Greenland in AD1000 were, but NOBODY KNOWS! Now, the High Priests of the COGW are proposing that the global “warming” has halted for about 20 years-it will be fun to see what explanation they offer for this. Sell your carbon Credits now!:D:D:D [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=39)