# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/841 "2013-11-23T15:35:51Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > I do not abandon anything I’ve said in this thread. BTW, it’d be totally awesome if you’re going to use quotes to actually quote what I said. Or at least show where I said anything close to “suffering”. You got owned on that one. Now you want to be viewed as serious? Admit you were wrong, and move on > [@AlienVessels](#): > > See if there’s not a heat sink in there somewhere or some other place the energy might be going, i.e. heat to wind. Yeah, cause nothing else could possibly explain things. > [@brazil84](#): > > It’s absolutely relevant. Of course it is. But good luck ever getting a believer to admit that. or anything else. > [@brazil84](#): > > Lol, your predictions have the same problem. Basically meaningless. But that never stopped anyone furthering a cause. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/842 "2013-11-23T20:46:35Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > All three people can be said to subscribe to the hypothesis that “It’s gonna get warmer.” And yet all 3 have very different beliefs. > > You refuse to say which of these categories you belong to (or if you have some other set of beliefs). Your position is too vague to scrutinize, which is most likely your subconscious aim. Belief is irrelevant. Predictions are what science is about. Now we can talk about what I think the consequences of things getting warmer are. Science is aboout predictions, not motives. > [@brazil84](#): > > Right here (in post 764): > > (my bolding) Technical point scored. I’m tempted to argue context, but I said the word. > [@brazil84](#): > > That’s exactly the point – your position is sufficiently vague as to be essentially meaningless. > > Lol, your predictions have the same problem. Basically meaningless. Nonsense. They’re specific and falsifiable. Predicting specifics when our knowledge and models are so imprecise would be absurd. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/843 "2013-11-23T20:53:58Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > You got owned on that one. Now you want to be viewed as serious? Admit you were wrong, and move on > Yeah, cause nothing else could possibly explain things. > Of course it is. But good luck ever getting a believer to admit that. or anything else. > But that never stopped anyone furthering a cause. Wow, I’m lucky you didn’t say pwned or I’d have really suffered an ignominious defeat. A guy counts coup and you thing it’s the end of my credibility. The few people still reading this thread are gonna pick their asses up after they stop laughing. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/844 "2013-11-23T21:16:56Z")
Still laughing … ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/845 "2013-11-23T22:35:16Z")
Good. Laughter is the best medicine ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/846 "2013-11-24T00:54:35Z")
Here’s something for you to laugh at, FX. You can even sneer if you want, since I imagine you think The Weather Channel is part of the “warmist” conspiracy: [www.weather.com](http://www.weather.com) “2013 Already among 10 warmest years on record.” But it was cold in Atlanta last week, so what do they know? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/847 "2013-11-24T07:48:40Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Belief is irrelevant. Predictions are what science is about. Now we can talk about what I think the consequences of things getting warmer are. Science is aboout predictions, not motives. That’s a strawman – I’m not talking about motives, I’m talking about formulating a model. Let me ask you this: Do you agree that – generally speaking – the scientific method requires, among other things, BOTH formulating a hypothesis AND making predictions based on that hypothesis? > [@](#): > > Technical point scored. I’m tempted to argue context, but I said the word. You did more than say the word, you made a prediction of suffering. Are you abandoning that prediction or not? > [@](#): > > Nonsense. They’re specific and falsifiable. Predicting specifics when our knowledge and models are so imprecise would be absurd. So let’s see if I have this straight: 1. You have made specific predictions. 2. Making specific predictions is absurd. Do I understand you correctly? Also, please answer my question: Does it surprise you to learn that you are in agreement with Richard Lindzen? Also, please answer my other question from before: Why is it, in your view, that the world’s emergence from the Little Ice Age would not have been expected to cause a lot of “suffering”? I’m simply trying to understand your position so that I can scrutinize it. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/848 "2013-11-24T15:32:18Z")
> [@Mapache](#): > > Here’s something for you to laugh at, FX. You can even sneer if you want, since I imagine you think The Weather Channel is part of the “warmist” conspiracy: [www.weather.com](http://www.weather.com) “2013 Already among 10 warmest years on record.” But it was cold in Atlanta last week, so what do they know? All I see when I followed your link is stories about the deadly winter storm hammering the US right now. Ironic, and yeah, I laughed. But at your link, not the deadly early record snow and ice. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/849 "2013-11-24T15:57:20Z")
For the slow kids, or those who just don’t read a topic, since global warming is happening, right now, and since yes, the official story has changed to blame the unusual and deadly winters on global warming, then complaining about cold, record cold, unusual cold, then complaining about it and calling it global warming is fair. Despite how fucking stupid it seems, despite how insane the idea seems, despite how fucking moronic such claims sound, [it is actually a real thing](https://www.google.com/search?q=colder+winters+global+warming&rlz=1C1CHMO_enUS531US531&oq=colder+winters+global+warming). Here’s a few cites for the incredulous. > [@](#): > > EARTH > **Cold Winters Driven By Global Warming** > DEC 22, 2010 03:00 AM ET > [http://news.discovery.com/earth/cold-winter-snow-weather-global-warming-101222.htm](http://news.discovery.com/earth/cold-winter-snow-weather-global-warming-101222.htm) > [@](#): > > That harsh winter that we are experiencing, it is not proof that global warming is not happening, **but rather serves as proof that it is indeed happening** , and even a bit faster than we might like to think. [Global Warming and Cold Winters](http://www.skepticalscience.com/Global-Warming-Cold-Winters.html) > [@](#): > > Jan 13, 2012 > **Global warming set to bring colder, snowier winters** > > The world is getting warmer, which should mean warmer winters - right? Wrong - a new study shows that global warming produces colder winters and heavier dumps of snow for large swathes of the northern hemisphere. [http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/news/48293](http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/news/48293) So this winter, when your stuck in snow and ice, or suffering a power blackout, or freezing your ass off, you can blame it on global warming. And it won’t even be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/850 "2013-11-25T03:24:13Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > That’s a strawman – I’m not talking about motives, I’m talking about formulating a model. > > Let me ask you this: Do you agree that – generally speaking – the scientific method requires, among other things, BOTH formulating a hypothesis AND making predictions based on that hypothesis? Certainly. But the predictions can be of direction and not degree, especially when the system is complex. > [@brazil84](#): > > You did more than say the word, you made a prediction of suffering. Are you abandoning that prediction or not? People will suffer as a result of global warming. People in the developing world more than those in the developed world. > [@brazil84](#): > > So let’s see if I have this straight: > > 1. You have made specific predictions. > > 2. Making specific predictions is absurd. > > Do I understand you correctly? Through the magic of language, I can be specific to my degree without being obligated to be specific to the degree you would like. I made predictions about the kind of problem that might occur. Making specific predictions about what problems will occur is absurd. > [@brazil84](#): > > Also, please answer my question: Does it surprise you to learn that you are in agreement with Richard Lindzen? I am not in agreement with him. Our perspectives agree on some of the basic facts. > [@brazil84](#): > > Also, please answer my other question from before: Why is it, in your view, that the world’s emergence from the Little Ice Age would not have been expected > to cause a lot of “suffering”? I don’t make that claim. Clearly there was great suffering associated with that climate change. > [@brazil84](#): > > I’m simply trying to understand your position so that I can scrutinize it. I don’t buy it. I think you’re attempting to get to be more specific in an attempt to defeat me in detail. As near as I can tell, most of the core facts are not in disagreement. The issue is what is predicted and what if anything should be done. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/851 "2013-11-25T11:03:37Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Certainly. But the predictions can be of direction and not degree, especially when the system is complex. Ok, then please explain to me the underlying model/explanation which causes you to predict that “it’s gonna get warmer.” > [@](#): > > People will suffer as a result of global warming. People in the developing world more than those in the developed world. Exactly how will the warming you predict cause suffering? And how is it different from the warming which occurred (and has been occurring) as a result of the world’s coming out of the Little Ice Age? > [@](#): > > Through the magic of language, I can be specific to my degree without being obligated to be specific to the degree you would like. I made predictions about the kind of problem that might occur. Making specific predictions about what problems will occur is absurd. Well what conditions would falsify your prediction? > [@](#): > > I am not in agreement with him. In what way(s) do you disagree with him? Like you, he seems to believe that “it’s gonna get warmer.” > [@](#): > > I don’t make that claim. Don’t weasel. Earlier in the thread, I asked you the following question: > [@brazil84](#): > > If this is correct, then the world’s emergence from the Little Ice Age would have been expected to cause a lot of “suffering,” agreed? And here was your answer: > [@AlienVessels](#): > > No. Are you abandoning your earlier position? > [@](#): > > I don’t buy it. I think you’re attempting to get to be more specific in an attempt to defeat me in detail. Lol, before I can decide whether or not I want to “defeat you,” I need to know if you actually disagree with me or not. I need to know what your position actually is. Besides which, either your position will stand up to scrutiny or it won’t. If it doesn’t, you should thank me for educating you. Certainly if my position doesn’t stand up to scrutiny, I will abandon it. So please answer my questions. ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/852 "2013-11-25T14:03:55Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > All I see when I followed your link is stories about the deadly winter storm hammering the US right now. Ironic, and yeah, I laughed. > > But at your link, not the deadly early record snow and ice. Jeez, do I have to spell the whole post out for you? I guess I do, so: Quote: “Even though this year isn’t yet on the books, 2013 is on track to be the seventh warmest year since modern temperature records began in 1850, the World Meteorological Association reported today in conjunction with the United Nations- led global climate talks underway this week in Poland. Global land and sea surface temperatures were about 0.86 degrees Farenheit above the 1961-1990 average for the period between January and September of this year, tying them with the same time frame from 2003 as the seventh warmest such period on record. Warmer temperatures were most extreme in Australia in 2013, the report notes, in contrast with 2012, when the United States experienced much of the world’s record high temperatures.” But it was cold in Atlanta last week, so what do the UN and the WMA know, right? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/853 "2013-11-25T14:14:05Z")
This Global Warming is making me thirsty! ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/854 "2013-11-25T14:47:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > This Global Warming is making me thirsty! Me too! **FX** and **Brazil** are much easier to tolerate when I’ve been drinking. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/855 "2013-11-25T16:42:39Z")
> [@Mapache](#): > > Jeez, do I have to spell the whole post out for you? Either that or post a link which actually works, I would say. > [@](#): > > But it was cold in Atlanta last week, so what do the UN and the WMA know, right? I take it you dispute the following claim? > [@](#): > > That harsh winter that we are experiencing, it is not proof that global warming is not happening, but rather serves as proof that it is indeed happening, and even a bit faster than we might like to think. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/856 "2013-11-25T17:34:38Z")
Sunspot activity lowest in160 years. If the earth continues cooling, it will pretty much invalidate the AGW theories. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/857 "2013-11-25T17:38:51Z")
If the earth freezes solid, it will be very cold and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/858 "2013-11-25T17:50:11Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Good. Laughter is the best medicine Thank you, Doctor. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/859 "2013-11-25T19:33:53Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I take it you dispute the following claim? You can see why Gigogalloper’s head would have exploded if he kept reading the topic. What I was pointing out all along, is in line with his blog. > [@ralph124c](#): > > Sunspot activity lowest in160 years. If the earth continues cooling, it will pretty much invalidate the AGW theories. Well, I would say the “theory” is already suffering some serious problems, most notably the colder winters trend that has been happening since 1992. A key prediction of **CO2 global warming theory** is that boreal winters would show warming, and the arctic would experience a positive feedback, leading to milder winters, less snow and an ever increasing trend of warmer winters for the NH. Now certainly one could claim nobody could foresee what happened, that instead of a warming trend the winters became much worse. That doesn’t change the facts a bit. The theory is based on positive feedbacks leading to more winter warming. Not the complete opposite. And it is certainly possible that while global temperatures rise, the winters become much colder. In fact, it seems that the colder DJF temperatures are the main reason the global mean hasn’t kept rising. The thing is, there actually are a few climate scientists who predicted this. And they based their predictions on both increasing CO2 as well as increasing black carbon pollution (soot), which very well may be a main factor in the drastic decrease in sea ice, and some glaciers that have melted rapidly. It’s all quite interesting. > [@Subterraneanus](#): > > Thank you, Doctor. You are quite welcome. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/860 "2013-11-25T19:37:14Z")
> [@Mapache](#): > > Here’s something for you to laugh at, FX. You can even sneer if you want, since I imagine you think The Weather Channel is part of the “warmist” conspiracy: [www.weather.com](http://www.weather.com) “2013 Already among 10 warmest years on record.” The link is just to the main page, which is dominated by the current winter storm. Either find the link you meant to post to the story, or quite crying. > [@Mapache](#): > > Jeez, do I have to spell the whole post out for you? No, just learn how to link to what you are talking about. [http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/2013-already-among-10-warmest-years-record-report-20131113](http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/2013-already-among-10-warmest-years-record-report-20131113) See? It was easy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=44)