# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/961 "2013-12-06T10:47:13Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > But, FX’s point in this thread, that colder winters were not previously predicted but rather the opposite was predicted, is a reasonable data point to conclude that the climate scientists models are not reliable at this point. While I’m requesting cites for your claims, can you point out which models rule out having colder winters at various points in the future? The predictions I’ve seen have been more along the lines of “x degrees warmer y years into the future”, not “Winter 2015 will be hotter than ever before”, but I’ll be happy to condemn any such predictions if you find them. > [@](#): > > Do you feel that the models are making accurate predictions and are reliable? Until you show me which models are making such predictions, I can’t really answer that. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/962 "2013-12-06T11:09:14Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol, good luck getting a straight answer is this simple, reasonable question. My God, you’re dumb. That is no means a “simple” question. The _data_ says that the planet on the whole is warming. The _models_ can go fuck themselves. Nobody really knows what exactly is going to happen. That is why it is not a simple question. Do not deny the data. The planet _is_ warming. Do not think for a second that a misinterpretation of the data means the data isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/963 "2013-12-06T11:40:18Z")
I’ll post something simple. This is [NASA’s](http://localcircles.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/global-temperature-change-graph-large.jpg?6c4424) data. I think I see a fucking trend. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/964 "2013-12-06T12:36:27Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I read part of the Yahoo article and it presumed that any changes were due to global warming. That’s not really fact based, so the article didn’t seem too valuable. Maybe I quit to early but it wasn’t a good start. > > I started to read the SciAm article and got to this point and stopped: > “According to Maria Diuk-Wasser at the Yale School of Public Health, the onset of human-induced global warming is likely to increase the…” > > “likely” isn’t facts, it’s speculation, which doesn’t really help us figure out if we understand what is happening with the climate or not. You should have kept reading beyond the first paragraph where your quibble with the usage of “likely” occurred. > [@](#): > > “The direct effects of temperature increase are an increase in immature mosquito development, virus development and mosquito biting rates, which increase contact rates (biting) with humans,” she reports. The author is not presupposing a continuation of climate change, but if a + b, then c is a certainty. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > Like the claims that global warming is leading to more disease, where they then claim the African virus problem in the US is due to global warming. It’s horseshit, and just reading the article makes that clear. The disease in the US is because PEOPLE WITH THE DISEASE got on aircraft and flew to the US. The vast majority of cases are exactly that. They say a few were “new” cases, from mosquito bites in the US. Which means some of the infected people actually were out and about and mosquitoes bit them and transmitted the disease to a new host, somebody that didn’t contract it in Africa. > > In reality global warming had NOTHING TO DO WITH the spread of this virus to the US and [Canada](http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/wnv-vwn/map-carte/index-eng.php). There already are mosquitoes in all of the US and Canada. Claiming global warming is the CAUSE of the West Nile spreading is such complete horseshit, it’s staggering that an intelligent person can’t see this just by reading the goddamn story. They are blaming climate change, when it is actually air travel of infected people that caused the problem. > > Same for the other disease problems that flew in, inside people, from infected areas. Of course blaming global warming is a nice easy way to just avoid even discussing the real problem, and a good way to frighten stupid people as well. > > This horseshit about global warming allowing these mosquito born diseases to spread is just that, dishonest horseshit of the worst kind. How cute FX. A logical conundrum. You posit disease spread is due solely to human travel. Hmmm. Malaria is not uncommon in the tropics. Worldwide travel by people who reside in the tropics is not uncommon. Ergo, malaria is not uncommon worldwide. Ah yes, that was quite the outbreak they had last year in Iceland. Strange to discover despite published claims to the contrary [Anopheles](http://www.cdc.gov/malaria/about/biology/mosquitoes/) habitat extended that far… **Good work FX!** ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/965 "2013-12-06T14:56:33Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > While I’m requesting cites for your claims, can you point out which models rule out having colder winters at various points in the future? Now that sort of thing is the sort of evasion and playing dumb you will run into, when the going gets real. It’s asinine in it’s complete pretense. This sort of weaseling works if you actually think it’s in good faith. You can post source after source (like anybody really needs any in this regard), and each on will be further weaseled out of. I’ve seen it for years online, I know this game well. Seriously, there isn’t a single thing that will make any difference. if somebody actually believes there never was any predictions about warmer winters, nothing will convince them now. Same for the fact that it is a key prediction of CO2 (GhG warming theory) that warming will be seen first, and fastest, in the arctic and in the boreal winters. Don’t believe it? It’s already happened multiple times in this thread. Plus, it’s not hard at all to Google the answer, which is why it’s such an odious trick. > [@](#): > > “Warm Winters Result From Greenhouse Effect, Columbia Scientists Find, Using NASA Model … > Despite appearing as part of a natural climate oscillation, the large increases in wintertime surface temperatures over the continents may therefore be attributable in large part to human activities,” > Science Daily, Dr. Drew Shindell 4 June 1999 > [Warm Winters Result From Greenhouse Effect, Columbia Scientists Find, Using NASA Model | ScienceDaily](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/06/990604081638.htm) > [@](#): > > “Within a few years winter snowfall will become a very rare and exciting event. … Children just aren’t going to know what snow is.” > David Viner, Climatic Research Unit, University of East Anglia, 20 March 2000 > [http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html](http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html) > [@](#): > > “This data confirms what many gardeners believe – winters are not as hard as they used to be. … And if recent trends continue a white Christmas in Wales could certainly be a thing of the past.” > BBC, Dr Jeremy Williams, Bangor University, Lecturer in Geomatics, 20 Dec 2004 > [BBC NEWS | UK | Wales | North West Wales | Snow 'disappears' from Snowdon'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/north_west/4112137.stm) Even a clear, and unmistakable source, which speaks directly to the “objection” will be ignored. (I’ve posted it several time in the thread already) It won’t matter, because it’s not really an inquiry, it’s not about learning. > [@DMC](#): > > Until you show me which models are making such predictions, I can’t really answer that. See? It’s not enough for a succint summary by actual researchers, experts if you will, he has to see the models, know “which ones” are making the predictions. It’s a red herring. Even so, once more. It’s the first line of the paper. \*\*The most up to date consensus from global climate models predicts warming in the Northern Hemisphere (NH) high latitudes to middle latitudes during boreal winter. \*\* [Radware Bot Manager Captcha](http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/7/1/014007) If you can’t understand that, you are either a moron, or pretending to be an idiot. While on the subject, here is another paper about the new research. [http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/1/014036/article](http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/1/014036/article) It is quite clear in saying “ **a number of anomalously cold winters** have occurred over northern continents **along with record snowfalls** (Cattiaux et al 2010, Ghatak et al 2010, Guirguis et al 2011, Cohen et al 2012, Coumou and Rahmstorf 2012).” So when I talk about extreme cold and record snow, it’s not hard to see why. That introduction contains links to many many other papers, all of which are important, and are about the issue of the recent boreal winters. OF COURSE THE WARMERS WANT TO IGNORE THIS It is a direct hit to one of the most published and most repeated predictions from “CO2 caused global warming”. That anyone actually reading this topic doesn’t know this yet, that just says something about their comprehension and reading. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/966 "2013-12-06T15:12:21Z")
**FXMastermind** , I have to ask you a very simple question. Do not evade this, it’s a yes or no. Do you deny that the planet as a whole has gotten warmer over the past century? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/967 "2013-12-06T15:21:28Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > I think I see a fucking trend. Here’s some trends, that are in regard to the discussion here. All of them from GISS WARNING! SCIENCE AHEAD! BITCH! [NH winter since 1982](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1982&year2=2013&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=1200&pol=reg) [Since 1992](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1992&year2=2013&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=1200&pol=reg) [Since 2002](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=1951&base2=1980&radius=1200&pol=reg) Those all use the 1951-1980 baseline. Now look at [the 2002-2013 winter trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=1982&base2=2012&radius=1200&pol=reg)using a current baseline, so you can see how it compares to the “warm period” baseline. Ain’t that an eye opener? Suddenly that lack of global temperature rise might make sense. because look at [the summer trend.](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=0603&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=1982&base2=2012&radius=1200&pol=reg) You see any arctic warming there? Yes. But much more cooling. Play with it yourself, do some fucking science. read a book. But don’t try and pretend your idiot insults are going to change SCIENCE BITCHES! A look at [the NH cold season](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=1106&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=1982&base2=2012&radius=1200&pol=reg) is revealing. This is the period where global temperature anomalies show a slight decline. Compare it with the [2002-2013 warm season](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=0506&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=1982&base2=2012&radius=1200&pol=reg). I hope the links work for you. And you can comprehend what the graphics are showing. (let me know if this shit ain’t working for you) [This shows a polar view of 2002-2013](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=02&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=1980&base2=2002&radius=1200&pol=pol), you can clearly see the trend for the Siberian “cold pole”, as well as other areas that show a cooling trend. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/968 "2013-12-06T15:24:14Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > **FXMastermind** , I have to ask you a very simple question. Do not evade this, it’s a yes or no. Do you deny that the planet as a whole has gotten warmer over the past century? Oh fuck no. Does anyone? Seriously. Do you know anyone who claims there has been NO WARMING in the last 100 years? Give me a link. I will mock them. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/969 "2013-12-06T15:34:31Z")
[Feb polar view, 1992-2013](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=02&year1=1992&year2=2013&base1=1980&base2=2002&radius=1200&pol=pol), the period the papers are discussing, that show a cooling trend for large areas of the NH winter. You can clearly see the colder regions, and it’s starting to look like they may be dominating the winters. [The same for all winter](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=1992&year2=2013&base1=1980&base2=2002&radius=1200&pol=pol). The warmer pole and the colder mid latitude areas show up clearly. Note it isn’t just Siberia that shows a multi-decade trend. A lot of the US and Europe show up clearly. [The period 2002-2013](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=1203&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=200&base2=2012&radius=1200&pol=pol) shows it well. This is what the research is about. is it an unexpected CO2 induced cooling? The sun? Something else completely? Something is happening, there is no doubt any longer. Look at [the summer trend for the north pole](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=0603&year1=2002&year2=2013&base1=200&base2=2012&radius=1200&pol=pol). Remember, these are all trends. TRENDS MOTHERFUCKERS!! TRENDS! Look at [Alaska for the fall trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=0903&year1=2002&year2=2012&base1=2002&base2=2012&radius=1200&pol=pol). What the fuck? That matches the Alaska trends from station data of course. How can that be? Isn’t Alaska warming? [Look at the annual trend](http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/nmaps.cgi?year_last=2013&month_last=10&sat=4&sst=0&type=trends&mean_gen=1112&year1=2002&year2=2012&base1=2002&base2=2012&radius=1200&pol=pol). No, it is not warming. In fact, the Bering sea ice trend has been going up, it’s actually reached an all time high for ice extent. What a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/970 "2013-12-06T15:37:16Z")
If you don’t trust the GISS data, I can show you the same thing from three other data sources. There is zero doubt about the measurements of surface temperatures. those trends are real. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/971 "2013-12-06T15:45:41Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Oh fuck no. Does anyone? Seriously. Do you know anyone who claims there has been NO WARMING in the last 100 years? Give me a link. I will mock them. Then what _the living fuck_ are you talking about? Why on God’s Green Earth are you talking about cooling trends? I think you’re just trying to have it both ways and failing miserably. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/972 "2013-12-06T15:50:38Z")
Dang FX, 17 seperate throws of paragraphical, obfuscating, shit on the wall in post # 965 and not one word devoted to the rebuttal of those amateurs at the [CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/malaria/about/biology/mosquitoes/)? > [@](#): > > The successful development of the malaria parasite in the mosquito (from the “gametocyte” stage to the “sporozoite” stage) depends on several factors. The most important is ambient temperature and humidity (\*\*\*higher temperatures \*\*\*accelerate the parasite growth in the mosquito) and whether the Anopheles survives long enough to allow the parasite to complete its cycle in the mosquito host (“sporogonic” or “extrinsic” cycle, duration 10 to 18 days). Fucking hacks. You and I _know_ it has nothing to do with mosquitos, its people traveling! Because? Because… Science bitches! Now stop eating the crayons FX. Oh, Rafty? I admit, my “science” rebuttal is a little shakey since I didn’t do any actual science, but they didn’t give me an easy out like you had when SI used “likely”. Could you find another “key” word like that in their conclusions to help butress the refutation so we can entirely disregard their unsubstantiated claims ? (Ambient?..that sounds suspiciously noncommital. Why can’t they produce an actual number?) ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/973 "2013-12-06T16:00:23Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > But, FX’s point in this thread, that colder winters were not previously predicted but rather the opposite was predicted, is a reasonable data point to conclude that the climate scientists models are not reliable at this point. That’s one way to see it. However I’m not comfortable with any description of this as “my claim”, as it is both illustrated by the data, and many other researchers have noted the cooling trend for boreal winters. Here is data from woodfortrees using CRUTEMP3 data. The red line is December, Blue is January, and Green is February, NH temp anomalies. Note the trendline is for the annual data. By looking at each month you can clearly see the unexpected cooling of the NH winters, it shows up even using the entire NH mean. [Winter temperature anomalies CRUTEM3 NH](http://woodfortrees.org/plot/crutem3vnh/from:2002.9/every:12/plot/crutem3vnh/from:2002/every:12/plot/crutem3vnh/from:2002.08/every:12/plot/crutem3vnh/from:2002/trend) (interactive) [Just the image](http://woodfortrees.org/graph/crutem3vnh/from:2002.9/every:12/plot/crutem3vnh/from:2002/every:12/plot/crutem3vnh/from:2002.08/every:12/plot/crutem3vnh/from:2002/trend) FYI I did not get any of this from any blog, web page or published papers. i figured it out by doing my own research. As to WHY it is happening, that is a big unknown. It’s what I started the damn topic to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/974 "2013-12-06T16:03:24Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Seriously, there isn’t a single thing that will make any difference. if somebody actually believes there never was any predictions about warmer winters, **nothing will convince them now**. > [@armedmonkey](#): > > Then what _the living fuck_ are you talking about? **Why on God’s Green Earth are you talking about cooling trends**? Of course there is no fucking way he could have looked at the data that quickly, so of course he has no clue. let him swing in the wind. As to the mosquito born virus issue, that response is coming. But fuck, I have other important shit to do. educating the ignorant is a hobby, not a job. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/975 "2013-12-06T16:33:00Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Of course there is no fucking way he could have looked at the data that quickly, so of course he has no clue. let him swing in the wind. > > As to the mosquito born virus issue, that response is coming. But fuck, I have other important shit to do. educating the ignorant is a hobby, not a job. Too bad it’s just a hobby FX, if you really dedicated yourself I could see you possibly making a little progress with yours. ( Not really, but I’m trying to be supportive and create a more accepting environment for yours here.) You’re doing great FX! ☹ ( Oh yeah, there were a bunch of folks at the start of this thread who talked and posted cites about cooling in some areas being one of Climate Changes attributes. Maybe you should go read those as a refresher for your next wall coating screed… And remember, its NOT mosquito born… IT"S PEOPLE!) ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/976 "2013-12-06T17:03:42Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > [This post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16853358&postcount=762) is the idiocy (not that FX has any shortage of idiocy) in question, so I’d appreciate a link to the post it was responding to. I just used SD search and Google search and I can’t find the post I was thinking of. I thought it was in the IMHO thread regarding global warming and storms but I searched all through it and couldn’t find what I remembered. Maybe my brain is making stuff up, but I distinctly remember a poster talking about Atlanta record highs. **FX** , am I mistaken? Do you remember that also? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/977 "2013-12-06T17:09:32Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > In my defense, there is so much stupidity in this thread that my eyes have started to glaze over. Last time I chimed in, **Blake** claimed fuel efficiency kills people. For some situations it does. For example, gang bangers are trying to hit their cross-town rivals, if they run out of gas before they get there nobody dies, but if they are driving a Prius they’re going to make that hit and have enough fuel for a clean get away. Although the clean getaway just saved their lives, so I think we can conclude fuel efficiency both kills people and saves people. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/978 "2013-12-06T17:21:21Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Oh, Rafty? I admit, my “science” rebuttal is a little shakey since I didn’t do any actual science, but they didn’t give me an easy out like you had when SI used “likely”. > > Could you find another “key” word like that in their conclusions to help butress the refutation so we can entirely disregard their unsubstantiated claims ? (Ambient?..that sounds suspiciously noncommital. Why can’t they produce an actual number?) Look **sylmar** , no need for hostility or antagonism towards me on this topic. Your articles are somewhat of a tangent to the climate change discussion in that the primary point of this discussion is merely that many predictions have been substantially incorrect and the point is to not just run with every prediction made and assume it’s gospel. It’s possible that Malaria and mosquitos could be another data point supporting climate change data, but it’s just an entire other complex topic. Coupled with the “likely” statement indicating speculation, it didn’t seem worth reading. If the facts say the climate is warming, ok, then it is. If the facts say the climate is cooling, ok then it is. if the facts say the climate is doing both, great, but let’s be clear about the boundaries between facts and speculation. Most climate scientists that I have read have freely admitted that climate modeling is extremely difficult and that there are substantial weaknesses in their current models. How long did it take for weather models to get a 3 day out forecast to be somewhat accurate? Modeling the climate is exponentially harder and it may not even be mathematically possible due to it’s chaotic nature. That is an unknown. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/979 "2013-12-06T17:27:35Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Do you realize _that was in response to_ the poster stating that because Atlanta had a record hot day (or two or three or whatever) that it supported global warming? If there are record cold days, doesn’t that imply global cooling if we are using such simplistic metrics? Really Rafty? Interesting… So how can the very first post in this thread (by FX) touting a record cold day in Atlanta be “in response to” another posting? Does FX have a time machine permitting him to do preemptive postings? If so, then why can’t he find someone to help him with his responses so he sounds less like an idiot? Inquiring minds would like to know… Oh…and you guys’s thing with the climate change guys being completely wrong because they didn’t forsee some cooling events, is [2002](http://www.int-res.com/abstracts/cr/v19/n3/p193-212/)early enough for you? Seems like that was before climate change was even a buzzword. > [@](#): > > We can conclude that a significant proportion of the global land area was increasingly affected by a significant change in climatic extremes during the second half of the 20th century But nice sleuthing by FX. I’m glad he was able to figure that out with his own research. Do you have a witnessed manuscript you could submit FX? No ?! Oh well. Maybe next time you can get published first before others steal your thunder… ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/980 "2013-12-06T17:39:28Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Look **sylmar** , no need for hostility or antagonism towards me on this topic. > > Your articles are somewhat of a tangent to the climate change discussion in that the primary point of this discussion is merely that many predictions have been substantially incorrect and the point is to not just run with every prediction made and assume it’s gospel. It’s possible that Malaria and mosquitos could be another data point supporting climate change data, but it’s just an entire other complex topic. Coupled with the “likely” statement indicating speculation, it didn’t seem worth reading. > > If the facts say the climate is warming, ok, then it is. > If the facts say the climate is cooling, ok then it is. > if the facts say the climate is doing both, great, but let’s be clear about the boundaries between facts and speculation. > > Most climate scientists that I have read have freely admitted that climate modeling is extremely difficult and that there are substantial weaknesses in their current models. > > How long did it take for weather models to get a 3 day out forecast to be somewhat accurate? > > Modeling the climate is exponentially harder and it may not even be mathematically possible due to it’s chaotic nature. That is an unknown. Oh…don’t try that pitch with Brazzers and FX. If environmental scientist can’t produce _ **exact** _ numbers for future predicitions then they don’t know what their talking about. As for one of my cites being tangenital, FX _and_ you hand waved it away with it being a crap article. You didn’t claim it was tangenital then. You want to refute facts, refute it with other facts, not your “opinion”. M’kay? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=50)