# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/981 "2013-12-06T18:01:54Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > As for one of my cites being tangenital, FX _and_ you hand waved it away with it being a crap article. You didn’t claim it was tangenital then. There are typically many reasons involved in our decisions (your’s included), just because I didn’t map out in extreme detail the exact balancing process in my mind of whether to continue reading or not doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Either way, the point remains: mosquitos are not strongly linked to climate models and their accuracy (or maybe they are, did they offer facts to support that in the article?), if you have points about climate models, please make them. If you have articles relating to climate models that you think support a particular position, link them, I find the topic pretty interesting. And the mosquito topic could be interesting on it’s own, it’s just not something I want to dive into right now. > [@](#): > > You want to refute facts, refute it with other facts, not your “opinion”. M’kay? Opinions are important, as long as they are identified as opinions. I’m not a climate scientist so I can’t talk facts about the inner workings of their models, but I have worked on computer models of a few other types of processes and I can use that experience to offer my opinion about the difficulties of modeling complex systems in general. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/982 "2013-12-06T18:57:15Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Either way, the point remains: mosquitos are not strongly linked to climate models and their accuracy (or maybe they are, did they offer facts to support that in the article?) Really? Again hand waving something away without reading it? Why no, there are abso-fucking-lutely no facts in it. SI is reknowned for doing “opinion” pieces with absolutely no factual underpinnings. You can accept that climate change is an incredibly complex difficult to model system but are going to insist “likely” for a scenario in another complex system with many independent variables is unacceptable ? I can see where you identify with FX. Self contradiction appears to come naturally. > [@RaftPeople](#): > > if you have points about climate models, please make them. If you have articles relating to climate models that you think support a particular position, link them, I find the topic pretty interesting. And the mosquito topic could be interesting on it’s own, it’s just not something I want to dive into right now. For more hand waving? Ummm… yeah. I’m okay with you going over any of the hundreds of previous cites and actually thoughtful posts in this thread for your hand waving thingy. As for measured discussion, FX started this thread, why do you think it was almost immediately kicked into the pit? Because he’s been a paragon of thoughful, reasoned discourse in regular threads, so the mod’s wanted to shake things up a little, right? ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/983 "2013-12-06T20:42:40Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Oh fuck no. Does anyone? Seriously. Do you know anyone who claims there has been NO WARMING in the last 100 years? Give me a link. I will mock them. Oo! Ooo! Brazzers! Did you see that ? FX has become a warmist too! :eek: (You two have a blast mocking each other now…toodles) ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/984 "2013-12-06T21:15:05Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > [This post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16853358&postcount=762) is I wasn’t responding to any post made on the Dope, thought there has been no shortage of idiot claims made based on a heat wave. It was more like this shit. From the always present global warming dopes. > [@](#): > > **Atlanta’s heat raises red flags** > > As the heat soared past 100 degrees last weekend, a new temperature record in Atlanta — 106 — grabbed headlines. What is most remarkable about this event is not only the extremity of the temperature, but also the accelerating frequency with which Atlanta is experiencing unusually hot weather. > > In recent years, the number of summer days with temperatures above 90 has exceeded the long-term average by more than 30 days. Atlanta’s summers are not simply growing hotter over time; **Atlanta ranks among the top three most rapidly warming cities in the nation** — and quite possibly in the world. > > **Atlanta’s rapid warming is due not only to the global greenhouse effect, which is inarguably driving warming trends in cities worldwide,** but also to the extremity of a local-scale phenomenon known as the “urban heat island effect.” As cities displace forests and farmland with darkly hued roads, buildings and parking lots, more sunlight is absorbed and retained throughout the day, further elevating urban temperatures. > > Having cut down more acres of trees to fuel sprawling growth than perhaps any other city in the country, Atlanta’s heat island has grown unusually intense, contributing to an accelerating rate of warming that is double that of the planet as a whole. [http://www.ajc.com/news/news/opinion/atlantas-heat-raises-red-flags/nQW48/](http://www.ajc.com/news/news/opinion/atlantas-heat-raises-red-flags/nQW48/) So when the city that may just be “warming faster than any other city” sees the opposite … > [@](#): > > **Atlanta breaks a century-old temperature record Thursday** > > ATLANTA (CBS ATLANTA) - > Atlanta’s high temperature on Thursday was only 73 degrees which is the coolest high temperature on record for August 15. > > The previous record was a high of only 77 degrees from 1908. > > Thursday’s high followed even cooler temperatures on Friday when Atlanta only hit 67 degrees – **the coolest August high temperature since 1986**. [http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/23151205/atlanta-breaks-a-century-old-temperature-record](http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/23151205/atlanta-breaks-a-century-old-temperature-record) When there is a brief heat wave, record breaking heat, it’s global warming. When it’s record breaking cold, despite the Urban heat island effect, it don’t mean shit. I find that amusing. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/985 "2013-12-06T21:17:39Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Really? Again hand waving something away without reading it? > > Why no, there are abso-fucking-lutely no facts in it. SI is reknowned for doing “opinion” pieces with absolutely no factual underpinnings. > > You can accept that climate change is an incredibly complex difficult to model system but are going to insist “likely” for a scenario in another complex system with many independent variables is unacceptable ? > > I can see where you identify with FX. Self contradiction appears to come naturally. You’re upset that I don’t want to discuss mosquitos and malaria when we are discussing climate MODELS? If you want to discuss mosquitos and malaria, open a thread for that. > [@](#): > > For more hand waving? Ummm… yeah. I’m okay with you going over any of the hundreds of previous cites and actually thoughtful posts in this thread for your hand waving thingy. > > As for measured discussion, FX started this thread, why do you think it was almost immediately kicked into the pit? > > Because he’s been a paragon of thoughful, reasoned discourse in regular threads, so the mod’s wanted to shake things up a little, right? If you want to discuss evidence for/against or opinions about accuracy of climate models and predictions, go ahead, please proceed, I will respond honestly and openly. I challenge you to attempt a reasonable level headed logical discussion. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/986 "2013-12-06T21:18:51Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Oo! Ooo! Brazzers! Did you see that ? FX has become a warmist too! :eek: Let’s go the video proof. Nothing proves something like a Youtube video. [Denier land: How deniers view global warming](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uif1NwcUgMU) ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/987 "2013-12-06T21:30:59Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I challenge you to attempt a reasonable level headed logical discussion. I doubt very much that is going to happen. Still, one always likes a surprise. In regards to the models, they feedback from arctic warming is always for increased warming. The unexpected cooling is not predicted by current models, and it shows a serious flaw in key assumptions about large scale meteorological events. It very well may be that the exposed warm water and lack of sea ice in late summer feeds early heavy snow, creating the Siberian cold pole early, with Canada following soon after. This increase in cold creates strong temperature differentials, strong jet streams, and like we are seeing right now, it may be one reason for the powerful cold fronts that are reaching so far south. Certainly the interaction with the warm air so early in the year creates some serious snow (and heavy rain, ice, freezing rain) as well. We are reaching enough data to be able to say it is not just natural variation at this point. In other words, the cold winters and record snow are not anomalies, but part of a trend. And that is, with no doubt at all, completely against the consensus of the models. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/988 "2013-12-06T22:02:00Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > In other words, the cold winters and record snow are not anomalies, but part of a trend. And that is, with no doubt at all, completely against the consensus of the models. I think the problem some people have on this topic is a lack of appreciation for the ridiculously enormous complexity of a system this large. I believe we are still unable to accurately model the mixing of fluids in a coffee cup, which I believe (assumption) is less complex than our climate. Here’s an unrelated thought I was having: Looking at the heat/cold images you linked to reminded me of the pattern of magnetic fields as the poles begin to switch (many local +/- instead of just one global +/-), and it got me wondering how much the magnetic fields influence the climate. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/989 "2013-12-07T00:50:33Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I just used SD search and Google search and I can’t find the post I was thinking of. I thought it was in the IMHO thread regarding global warming and storms but I searched all through it and couldn’t find what I remembered. > > Maybe my brain is making stuff up, but I distinctly remember a poster talking about Atlanta record highs. > > **FX** , am I mistaken? Do you remember that also? So do we now have your permission to laugh at FX when he posts shit like that? Are you going to join us when we do? You find me someone who says that it was really hot in some small town on a given day and therefore Global Warming is real (other than sarcastic responses to FX and his ilk as was seen in this thread) and I’ll laugh at them as well. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/990 "2013-12-07T00:57:10Z")
Hey **RaftPeople** , you asked a question and I responded in #961. I realize that attempting to defend FX takes a substantial amount of time and brainpower, but I’ll happily answer any questions you have if you take the time. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/991 "2013-12-07T02:09:08Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I just used SD search and Google search and I can’t find the post I was thinking of. I thought it was in the IMHO thread regarding global warming and storms but I searched all through it and couldn’t find what I remembered. > > Maybe my brain is making stuff up, but I distinctly remember a poster talking about Atlanta record highs. > > **FX** , am I mistaken? Do you remember that also? [This post?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16578799&postcount=26) Which I made in order to mock the OP? Because, for all his endless, tedious maundering about cold winters, our buddy FX started this thread complaining about a single chilly summer’s day in Atlanta. But that was before I knew that winter was coming… ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/992 "2013-12-07T02:24:36Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > [This post?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16578799&postcount=26) Which I made in order to mock the OP? > Because, for all his endless, tedious maundering about cold winters, our buddy FX started this thread complaining about a single chilly summer’s day in Atlanta. But that was before I knew that winter was coming… I do remember that post, but I thought there was one in IMHO a few months ago in the thread about gw and storms that was serious and was supporting gw due to hot atlanta days. At this point I’m going to have to award my memory -2 points and assume I was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/993 "2013-12-07T02:26:52Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > So do we now have your permission to laugh at FX when he posts shit like that? Are you going to join us when we do? You find me someone who says that it was really hot in some small town on a given day and therefore Global Warming is real (other than sarcastic responses to FX and his ilk as was seen in this thread) and I’ll laugh at them as well. If **FX** says that in all seriousness, sure. I assumed his OP in this thread was not really serious on that data point alone, but that his overall point about cold weather going against models certainly seems valid. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/994 "2013-12-07T02:29:05Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Hey **RaftPeople** , you asked a question and I responded in #961. I realize that attempting to defend FX takes a substantial amount of time and brainpower, but I’ll happily answer any questions you have if you take the time. Sure, but it’ll take some work/time on my part. I’m not very educated on the whole topic. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/995 "2013-12-07T12:08:36Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > You’re upset that I don’t want to discuss mosquitos and malaria when we are discussing climate MODELS? > > If you want to discuss mosquitos and malaria, open a thread for that. Ummm…Butt munch? I pointed out where we had an issue, and it most definitely was not because you didn’t want to discuss “Mosquitos and malaria” (Which, strangely enough, was a discussion “the impact of climate change on” that you voluntarily interjected yourself into. The “issue” is your making a number of unsubstantiated and misleading statements. > [@RaftPeople](#): > > If you want to discuss evidence for/against or opinions about accuracy of climate models and predictions, go ahead, please proceed, I will respond honestly and openly. > > I challenge you to attempt a reasonable level headed logical discussion. You challenge me? And I’m supposed to value your “response”? I have a better idea. How about you challenge yourself to operate by the following phrase some guy (It’s possible he was merely being facetious) said in this thread a little while ago - > [@RaftPeople](#): > > logic and facts are my game. I realize that would be a change up from your current MO, but maybe you’re up for the “challenge”. And really, promoting FX as some sort of idiot savant visionary on Climate Change ? lol ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/996 "2013-12-07T15:20:07Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I assumed his OP in this thread was not really serious on that data point alone, but that his overall point about cold weather going against models certainly seems valid. Of course. While I would like to believethat nobody would take a single event and claim it means global climate change, that is exactly the sort of thing the idiot press and even some scientists actually do. Most of the time. For some reason they get quiet in the cold season. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/997 "2013-12-07T15:26:33Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I do remember that post, but I thought there was one in IMHO a few months ago in the thread about gw and storms that was serious and was supporting gw due to hot atlanta days. Nothing I read on the dope had anything to do with my OP. Obviously a single hurricane is used to claim “the new normal”, but a complete lack of hurricanes means nothing, to the believer, hoping for some disaster, so they can leap about screaming “I told you so! I TOLD YOU it was happening!”. The current record cold is the sort of thing the warmer just wants to ignore, or deny. Because they still think it “doesn’t fit” with their word view, their belief system. If they were on board with the newest paradigm, they could bitch about it, and say “This Global Warming is making me sick!”. Note that none of the believers, the warmers, will even look at the trends I posted links to. I imagine a lot of “top experts” are the same. They won’t even look at data if it doesn’t show the warming they “know alreadfy” is happening. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/998 "2013-12-07T17:12:00Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Ummm…Butt munch? I pointed out where we had an issue, and it most definitely was not because you didn’t want to discuss “Mosquitos and malaria” (Which, strangely enough, was a discussion “the impact of climate change on” that you voluntarily interjected yourself into. I didn’t interject myself into any conversation regarding “the impact of climate change”. You responded to my post about **FX’s** position on climate models/predictions and YOU mentioned an article that had absolutely nothing to do with climate models, you responded with mosquitos and malaria. > [@](#): > > The “issue” is your making a number of unsubstantiated and misleading statements. Really? Are you able to provide any examples? > [@](#): > > You challenge me? And I’m supposed to value your “response”? Have you read **DMC’s** or **armedmonkey’s** posts? Whether we agree or disagree, those two are capable of holding an intelligent straightforward discussion, although all of us are having some fun with calling each other “idiots” at times. If you have points to make, I’m interested. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/999 "2013-12-07T19:16:24Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > While I’m requesting cites for your claims, can you point out which models rule out having colder winters at various points in the future? The predictions I’ve seen have been more along the lines of “x degrees warmer y years into the future”, not “Winter 2015 will be hotter than ever before”, but I’ll be happy to condemn any such predictions if you find them. > Until you show me which models are making such predictions, I can’t really answer that. I’m googling and will provide what I find as I find it. Here is one example of scientists using a NASA model and concluding warmer winters are due to gw and predicting more: > **[Warm Winters Result From Greenhouse Effect, Columbia Scientists Find, Using...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/06/990604081638.htm)** > > A team of scientists from Columbia University has shown that warm winters in the northern hemisphere likely can be explained by the action of upper-atmosphere winds that are closely linked to global warming. Although they say “no predictions”, they also offer a prediction at the end of the statement: “The research, which appears in the June 3 issue of the British journal Nature, offers no predictions on what temperatures future winters will bring, but suggests a continuation of the current trend for three to four more decades.” “The Columbia team used several versions of the NASA Goddard Institute’s general circulation model, a computer construct that predicts the Earth’s climate when certain inputs are varied. Model simulations suggest that much of the increase in surface winds and in continental surface temperatures during the winter months is induced by the buildup of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. In the model, increasing greenhouse gas emissions lead to a warmer surface and, at the same time, a colder stratosphere. The large wintertime continental temperature increases produced in the model correspond quite well with what scientists actually observe. But when the researchers used a version of the climate model that did not adequately represent the stratosphere, the results did not jibe as well with reality.” Don’t get me wrong, all of this is the normal process of trying to figure stuff out. The only thing that I feel strongly about is that modeling complex system is very tough (I’ve done it on simpler systems and it’s tough), and therefore one should be careful about prematurely assuming an accurate model. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1000 "2013-12-07T21:30:11Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > If **FX** says that in all seriousness, sure. > > I assumed his OP in this thread was not really serious on that data point alone, but that his overall point about cold weather going against models certainly seems valid. It appears to have been serious (and boringly repetitive) and in response to some unnamed people that are not participants in this board. Want to keep defending this shit or can we at least agree on the fact that **FX** is a blubbering idiot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=51)