# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 63
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1241 "2014-01-06T16:19:20Z")
[Jennifer Francis explains in a 40-minute video why a warming Arctic may lead to unusual cold weather.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETpm9JAdfcs) I found this very interesting. (The trolls and imbeciles won’t be interested: Ms. Francis is a Professor of Climatology, not a right-wing shill.) [Here’s a 5-minute summary](http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/04/16/1867371/video-explains-how-loss-of-arctic-ice-weakens-jet-stream-amplifies-extreme-weather/). > [@brazil84](#): > > Nobody knows which feedbacks are the most important. > > In pretty much any complex system one can hypothesize lots of different feedbacks, some positive and some negative. With global warming, it’s more exciting to hypothesize positive feedback but there is extremely little evidence to support such a hypothesis. Besides which, it’s more reasonable to hypothesize negative feedback with a complex system which has been around for a long time. Negative feedback should be the default assumption. Hi, **Brazil**. I hope you appreciate that I’ve not yet placed you on Ignore: you seem more sincere and intelligent than the obvious trolls in this thread. However you miss the point. I’m not trying to understand AGW. I’m trying to understand the ice/thaw cycles of the Pleistocene. I understand that astronomical effects may serve as triggers, _but the temperature changes significantly exceed the radiative effects_. Therefore _positive feedback must be in play._ This isn’t because it’s “exciting” :smack: . Nor is there “extremely little evidence” – that the forcing must be accomplished by positive feedback is obvious to anyone with intuition about dynamical systems. The one point where you are correct is that negative feedback mechanisms are also at work. The system is complex (something your trite “Negative feedback should be the default assumption” seems to ignore). The way that temperatures and levels of greenhouse gases track each other so exactly implies to me that there is strong positive feedback at work. HTH. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1242 "2014-01-06T16:26:31Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > It can be both. You can be paid (highly is relevant) and you just suck at it. Bullshit. Once more some idiot fuckhead comes out of the woodwork to display his lack of knowledge. It’s fascinating how no matter how much data, no matter how many links, and no matter how clearly the writing is, the fuckheads ignore it all, and go for the cesspool. Each to his own I imagine. > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > You have a great body of evidence behind which shows Stop right there. Yes, a great deal of evidence. In fact, pretty much every goddamn thing I say is backed up with a link to a scientific explanation for why I typed the goddamn fact out in the first place. Well, except for the obvious asides, pointing out what shitty logic and how much of a fuckhead somebody is, but that is self evident from their body of work. The problem the loudmouth shithead faces, is that in order to counter factual evidence based scientific thought, you actually have to know something about the subject. And you have to respond in a scientific and rational manner. But fuckheads don’t actually know much, and act like religious zealots of political fuckheads, in either case, completely ineffective at arguing. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1243 "2014-01-06T16:59:10Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Stanley, ND > An example of the current horrorfest of global goddamn warming. > > The goddamn High for the day -23 °F > The historic range for today, 0 to 55 °F > The motherfucking low for tonight -29 °F > The historic range -22 to 35 °F > > So you have a high temp that is lower than the record cold low temp > wtf?? > > WHAT THE FUCK??? > > Seriously, what the fuck is going on? Is that an anomaly? > > Aberdeen SD > Daytime High -11 °F > Historic range -4 to 63 °F > Low -25 °F > Historic range -30 to 30 °F > > Goddamn you global warming. > > You see? That’s the kind of shit all them experts and their expensive computers have been warning us about. Someone who so readily confuses weather with climate really shouldn’t be piloting a 25 page train wreck on global warming. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1244 "2014-01-06T17:06:39Z")
Thank you, **johnpost** , that article clearly stated what may be happening. To me, that gives the whole article scientific credibility. It is remotely possible this is just a natural and normal storm and it’s existence has nothing to do with global warming. > [@septimus](#): > > I’m not trying to understand AGW. I’m trying to understand the ice/thaw cycles of the Pleistocene. I understand that astronomical effects may serve as triggers, _but the temperature changes significantly exceed the radiative effects_. Therefore _positive feedback must be in play._ This isn’t because it’s “exciting” :smack: . Nor is there “extremely little evidence” – that the forcing must be accomplished by positive feedback is obvious to anyone with intuition about dynamical systems. Yes, indeed, the positive feedback mechanism for water vapor is well understood. Just the existence of water vapor in the atmosphere causes more water vapor to enter into it. This will continue to ramp up until others forces come into play to damp the feedback down. For example, when your electric guitar amplifier catches fire, the feedback stops. Where AGW enters in is that human contributions are “amplifying” an already existing feedback loop. What’s not clear to me is how we’re changing these “other forces” in such a way that the eventual equilibrium state is at a higher temperature. We may reach some pre-determined maximum temperature sooner, and stay there longer … but that’s a far cry from boiling off the entire atmosphere and such. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1245 "2014-01-06T17:07:58Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Someone who so readily confuses weather with climate Someone who can’t recognize sarcasm, irony or over the top hysterical mockery, shouldn’t be posting in this topic. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1246 "2014-01-06T17:31:07Z")
Solar astronomer predicted the recent cooling trend 10 years ago. He has been vindicated…buy your fur coats early! ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1247 "2014-01-06T17:32:49Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The way that temperatures and levels of greenhouse gases track each other so exactly implies to me that there is strong positive feedback at work. Utter bullshit, and it shows a complete lack of understanding about basic Meteorology. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1248 "2014-01-06T17:43:50Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Utter bullshit, and it shows a complete lack of understanding about basic Meteorology. Is there something specific in **septimus’** post that is in error? Looks all good to me. Water’s feedback mechanism is the first thing students of Meteorology are taught. Just look at the snow out there … ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1249 "2014-01-06T17:57:34Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Someone who can’t recognize sarcasm, irony or over the top hysterical mockery, shouldn’t be posting in this topic. This whole thread has been supposedly been about models. Well, I have a model too. My model says “Hey, it’s kind of cold in the Midwest. I bet that wanker in the BBQ Pit is going to make a post about it.” And lo and behold, there’s a post, presented as if it were data making your point. Feel free to pretend you were making that post as a joke. My model says that you’ve lost all credibility in a climate debate. Well, you would have lost all your credibility if you’d had any to start with – remember, this thread started with you bitching about an unusually cold day in Atlanta. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1250 "2014-01-06T18:01:27Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Utter bullshit, and it shows a complete lack of understanding about basic Meteorology. Now you are reduced to simple handwaving away arguments you are impotent to counter. Sad, really. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1251 "2014-01-06T18:12:43Z")
WV as a positive feedback is something made up by climate fools. It isn’t part of meteorology. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1252 "2014-01-06T18:14:10Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Well, I have a model too. My model says “Hey, it’s kind of cold in the Midwest. I bet that wanker in the BBQ Pit is going to make a post about it.” That might be true, and we might believe you, if you had posted your prediction before the event. Making predictions about the past is sort of easy. You must be a climate scientist. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1253 "2014-01-06T18:20:07Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Water’s feedback mechanism is the first thing students of Meteorology are taught. Just look at the snow out there … I guess I should explain. While the hypothetical WV feedback is indeed a part of current Meteorology courses, it’s because they cover climate change now, which is of course **global warming**. So they discuss it in textbooks and courses. But before the global warming madness it wasn’t even mentioned in Meteorology texts. Much less used as a mechanism for runaway heating or increased warming due to feedback. If you think about it for even a little, you might figure out why. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1254 "2014-01-06T21:26:52Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m not trying to understand AGW. And you are doing an excellent job of not understanding it. Which is pretty easy to do when not a single proponent of AGW can provide a definition of AGW. You know, the theory of anthropogenic climate change, or AGW or just global warming to most people. > [@](#): > > Why does this matter? Well, the scientists whose views I detailed above fit firmly into the mainstream and were presenting consensus positions, not controversial ones. It would be a stretch to say that the **theory of anthropogenic climate change** has become as firmly established as, say, the theory of evolution, but there are telling similarities. [http://atheism.about.com/b/2009/10/13/global-warming-evolution-skepticism-genuine-science.htm](http://atheism.about.com/b/2009/10/13/global-warming-evolution-skepticism-genuine-science.htm) Yes, it would be quite a stretch actually. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1255 "2014-01-06T23:01:05Z")
[Why the Arctic Is Drunk Right Now.](http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2014/01/did-global-warming-get-arctic-drunk) > [@](#): > > Perhaps the best analogy yet for the insane cold weather now afflicting the US came from science blogger Greg Laden, who created the viral image above. “Go home, Arctic,” it reads. “You’re drunk.” > > When it comes to the reason why the United States is currently experiencing life-threatening cold—with temperatures in the negative-20s in the Upper Midwest, and wind chills much lower than that—that’s actually not so far from the truth. “It’s basically the jet stream on a drunken path going around the Northern Hemisphere,” explains Rutgers University climate scientist Jennifer Francis. In other words, we’re experiencing record-breaking cold temperatures because a wavy and elongated jet stream has allowed frigid Arctic air to travel much farther south than usual. > > And according to Francis’ research—which has drawn increasing attention in the past few years—we’re seeing more of just this kind of jet stream behavior, thanks, at least in part, to the rapid warming of the Arctic. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1256 "2014-01-06T23:26:23Z")
It’s a great way to avoid reality, except that in reality world, the real one we live in, the arctic was unusually cold this year, in fact, it was record cold, having the shortest period of time above freezing since records began. Sea ice was slow in melting in some areas, along with the latest river ice break ups ever recorded in the arctic. The fall freeze started early and was rapid. There wasn’t a warm arctic this year. It isn’t warm right now either. That’s why it’s so fucking cold actually. But sure, blame alcohol. It beats dealing with reality. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1257 "2014-01-06T23:54:45Z")
Ummm … FX … I thought you agreed that the climate is warmer today than it was 20,000 years ago. Was I mistaken that you agreed? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1258 "2014-01-07T00:11:27Z")
Oh please, don’t be obtuse. The other really big fucking problem with the latest “goddamn it’s cold so it must be global warming” hypothesis, is that it contradicts the meteorological records and our historic understanding about cold fronts, cold winters and the relationship with the arctic. Extreme winters in the past were not correlated with melting sea ice and a warming arctic. In fact, cold winters are directly related to early and extreme cold in the arctic. Not a warm situation. Also, the solar experts have been talking about this, predicting this for a decade or more. Especially with the extremely quiet sun right now. But in any case, the extreme cold winters are directly the opposite of what AGW predicts. In fact, warming winters are a key part of the AGW theory. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1259 "2014-01-07T00:42:35Z")
I’m not saying that, look at my posts … not once have I said this polar vortex is caused by AGW … Jesus Christ, I’ve NEVER imposed human characteristics on global warming. I’m TRYING to agree with you, but you’re making it hard. Please explain to me why UCLA offers two separate courses, one for Climatology and one for Dynamics … both of which require completion of Basic Meteorology. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1260 "2014-01-07T00:45:16Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Ummm … FX … I thought you agreed that the climate is warmer today than it was 20,000 years ago. Was I mistaken that you agreed? Nobody, not even the craziest ratspit psycho you can imagine, thinks the global climate was warmer 20,000 years ago. As to current course requirements, I have no idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=62) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=64)