# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1601 "2014-01-29T19:55:07Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > If there is one thing I consider the sign of a complete loser, it would be somebody who WASTES TIME ARGUING about something that can’t ever be resolved. Like that thread. > > At least with SCIENCE! there is a chance to learn something. Dude, in all seriousness, please make it clear when you’re quoting from another thread. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1602 "2014-01-29T20:08:43Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Why bother? As was once explained to me about the phenomenon known as the Internet troll, they will either (a) ignore factual arguments, (b) demand more evidence no matter how much you give them, or (c) try to obfuscate the evidence with bullshit (either sourced from the likes of conspiracy blogs, or by citing a legitimate paper and shamelessly misrepresenting what it’s saying). I hear ya. Like in the topic where it’s claimed Antarctica is melting, getting warmer. It won’t matter if I post a paper and a link showing that is wrong. > [@](#): > > GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 39, L01501, 5 PP., 2012 > doi:10.1029/2011GL050207 > Insignificant change in Antarctic snowmelt volume since 1979 > > [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2011GL050207/abstract](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2011GL050207/abstract) The trolls and fuckheads simply don’t care. They already KNOW THE TRUTH and only they have it, and anything you post they disagree with, it just won’t matter ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1603 "2014-01-29T20:10:22Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But what the hell – here are a few examples where you elected option (a) with regard to my cited refutations of your preposterous statements about water vapor [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17031279&postcount=142) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17031337&postcount=143), or the example [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17051789&postcount=164) where you cited a paper and not only utterly failed to understand its purpose and its scientific premise, but apparently failed to comprehend straightforward English sentences. If you really believe that, start a thread in great debates. Bring it bitch. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1604 "2014-01-29T20:17:43Z")
For example, I posted a complete thought about something you claimed, and provided evidence for why I said it. > [@Why don't climate change deniers publish?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-climate-change-deniers-publish/678811/138): > > The problem is, when people make things up, like “Water vapor is a feedback and not a forcing”, there isn’t any evidence that such a statement exists, except where somebody made it up. > > You won’t find it [in a textbook](https://www.google.com/#q=%22Water+vapor+is+a+feedback+and+not+a+forcing%22), or [any scientific paper](http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=%22Water+vapor+is+a+feedback+and+not+a+forcing%22&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C10&as_sdtp=), or even on a real climate science page. > > Instead you get blogs, where people say all kinds of stupid things, but don’t back it up with science. Evidence. Note that the 9 hits are all blogs. > > If you type any [real phrase](http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22water+vapor+is+the+main+greenhouse+gas%22&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C10) into Google scholar, or Google, you get real sources right away, not a few blogs. Like “Water vapor acts as a greenhouse gas”, which returns real science sources, like [www.upi.com](http://www.upi.com) > carnegiescience.edu/news/water\_evaporated\_trees\_cools\_global\_climate‎ > [https://www-airs.jpl.nasa.gov/climate/‎](https://www-airs.jpl.nasa.gov/climate/%E2%80%8E) > > Same for [Google scholar](http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=%22Water+vapor+acts+as+a+greenhouse+gas%22&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C10&as_sdtp=), so it’s easy to see it’s a real phrase, from science. Not bloggers. Instead of admitting what I said is true, you come back with a quote that does not contain the very thing I told you did not exist in a textbpook. > [@](#): > > In rough terms, the physics of the water vapor feedback is very simple. Warmer air can hold more water vapor. In a warmer climate, the troposphere will have the potential to hold larger concentrations of water vapor. Water vapor is an effective greenhouse gas (the most important greenhouse gas in the climatological greenhouse effect), and thus it can add greatly to the initial warming if it increases. Figure 6.5 shows this process. Courtesy of “Climate Change and Climate Modeling”, J. Neelin, Cambridge University Press, 2011. > [@Why don't climate change deniers publish?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-climate-change-deniers-publish/678811/143): > > LOL … in addition to the 291,000 scientific papers on water vapor **feedback** , I’m also happy to quote a textbook… And you actually think that countered what I clearly stated; \*\*“When people make things up, like “Water vapor is a feedback and not a forcing”, there isn’t any evidence that such a statement exists, except where somebody made it up.” \*\* I pointed out the claim “Water vapor is a feedback and not a forcing” won’t appear in a textbook. You quote something else from a textbook, and claim victory or something. And you can’t grasp that. Priceless. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1605 "2014-01-29T20:36:36Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > What are they then? If you claim something exists, at least give us the definition. What is the “set of climate variables evaluated over the planet as a whole” that defines the global climate? Well, if you’d read beyond the first sentence in my post, you’d have seen that there are different ways to choose the set (or “ensemble”) of climate variables, depending on what aspect(s) of global climate you’re studying. The particular example I gave in the part of the post you apparently didn’t read, from the WorldClim Global Climate Data, uses 22 variables. Are you capable of following the link I gave there to see what those variables are, or do you need me to quote them for you explicitly? And by the way, if you’re hoping to be able to argue that it’s somehow “cheating” that different studies of global climate use different ensembles of climate variables, forget about it. Regional climate studies also use different ensembles of climate variables depending on the focus of the study. There’s no one unique set of climate variables that universally defines regional climate, any more than there is for global climate. As before, your core problem here is that you don’t really understand the concept of “climate” as a scientific term. You’re thinking of the word strictly in its ordinary-usage sense as implying intrinsic _comparison_ of atmospheric patterns: e.g., “The Indian subcontinent has a subtropical climate”, “The American Southwest has an arid climate”, “The climate of Quebec is colder and drier than that of the Bahamas”, etc. “Climate”, to you, is similar to other geographical entities such as “latitude”: namely, a characteristic that a place or region has _relative_ to somewhere else. So when you hear the term “global climate”, your reaction is along the lines of “The whole globe can’t have a climate, any more than the whole globe can have a latitude! There’s no basis for comparison, so the concept is meaningless!” But that isn’t how climate scientists understand “climate”. Climate, scientifically speaking, is simply some selected ensemble of climate variables evaluated at some selected spatial resolution over some selected area. That area can be, say, a lake, a peninsula, a continent, the entire planet, or anything in between. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1606 "2014-01-29T20:42:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Climate, scientifically speaking, is simply some selected ensemble of climate variables evaluated at some selected spatial resolution over some selected area. In before “So you can’t define it lols you’re dumb and wrong!!!” ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1607 "2014-01-29T20:43:51Z")
Next up,we discuss the galactic climate, and how it changing due to galactic warming. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1608 "2014-01-29T20:51:45Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I rather like this quote when it comes to explaining that: > > > [@](#): > > > > “We can’t say that steroids caused any one home run by Barry Bonds, but steroids sure helped him hit more and hit them farther. Now we have weather on steroids.” Would you care to provide three specific examples of “weather on steroids”? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1609 "2014-01-29T20:57:39Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Like in the topic where it’s claimed Antarctica is melting, getting warmer. It won’t matter if I post a paper and a link showing that is wrong. That paper doesn’t “show” what you think it does. (This is because another thing you don’t really understand is the complex relationship between different aspects of climate-change hypotheses.) One study showing no significant recent change in Antarctic annual snowmelt does not invalidate the hypothesis that Antarctica as a whole is getting warmer. Annual snowmelt is just one factor in climate variability, and it’s not the only kind of Antarctic melting that exists. As you can see from [this article](http://polarmet.osu.edu/PMG_publications/nicolas_bromwich_jc_2014.pdf) that cites the “snowmelt” paper you linked to, climate scientists have known for a while that annual meltwater runoff is not currently a major contributor to Antarctic ice mass loss. But other factors such as ice shelf breakup are also affecting the ice mass balance, and no studies involving meltwater runoff or anything else have “shown that is wrong”, as you claim. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1610 "2014-01-29T20:59:35Z")
Hey guys, have ya heard? There’s some global warming going on… And I am SICK of it! ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1611 "2014-01-29T21:02:50Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Would you care to provide three specific examples of “weather on steroids”? Hahaha you always crack me up with that, even when I know you are serious. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1612 "2014-01-29T21:12:05Z")
> [@white sifl](#): > > hey guys, have ya heard? There’s some global warming going on… > > And i am sick of it! tell it! Tell it on the mountain! Sciences! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1613 "2014-01-29T21:16:38Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Next up,we discuss the galactic climate, and how it changing due to galactic warming. If you can identify some set of “climate variables” that can be evaluated at some spatial resolution everywhere in the galaxy, and appropriate detection techniques for evaluating them, then we most certainly _could_ discuss the “galactic climate”. At present, however, since all the climate variables we recognize (with the possible exception of insolation, and that to a pretty negligible extent) are defined exclusively with regard to terrestrial systems, it is meaningful to speak of terrestrial “climate” (including “global climate”) but not “galactic climate”. We do know, though, that the universe as a whole (with certain local fluctuations due to gravitational-field heating of intracluster medium) is cooling, not warming. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1614 "2014-01-29T21:20:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > We do know, though, that the universe as a whole (with certain local fluctuations due to gravitational-field heating of intracluster medium) is cooling, not warming. Galactic warming denier! ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1615 "2014-01-29T21:21:56Z")
I c wut u did there > [@](#): > > YOU WILL NOT STOP TEH SCIENCES!! ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1616 "2014-01-29T23:44:41Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > And you actually think that countered what I clearly stated; > > \*\*“When people make things up, like “Water vapor is a feedback and not a forcing”, there isn’t any evidence that such a statement exists, except where somebody made it up.” > \*\* I pointed out the claim “Water vapor is a feedback and not a forcing” won’t appear in a textbook. You quote something else from a textbook, and claim victory or something. > > And you can’t grasp that. > > Priceless. You’re going to tell us with a straight face that this discussion was about finding a particular English sentence, not a discussion about how water vapor functions in the climate system? I Googled for “gravity is a property of mass and not caused by magical fairies” and I couldn’t find that either. So you’re now trying to slime out of being completely and utterly scientifically wrong about the role of water vapor in the climate system by claiming that you were actually talking about finding a particular English sentence in a textbook, thus establishing beyond any doubt that you are now a proven certified troll, and possibly a certifiable lunatic, too. Which doesn’t encourage me to have much further conversation with you. This is great, thanks for helping a number of us nail down what we’re dealing with here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1617 "2014-01-30T02:20:18Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > You’re going to tell us with a straight face that this discussion was about finding a particular English sentence, not a discussion about how water vapor functions in the climate system? There you go again. I had forgotten how this particular stupid started. > [@Why don't climate change deniers publish?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-climate-change-deniers-publish/678811/131): > > …You’d be dead wrong, of course; water vapor is a feedback loop, not a driver. > [@Why don't climate change deniers publish?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-climate-change-deniers-publish/678811/135): > > In the spirit of dispelling ignorance, not spreading it, let me show you why the claim “[water vapor is a feedback loop, not a driver](water vapor is a feedback loop, not a driver)” is a made up and false statement. Of course to be fair it might be the exact phrasing, so let’s look at “[water vapor is a feedback loop](https://www.google.com/#q=%22water+vapor+is+a+feedback+loop%22)”, which is the really wrong part of the claim. > > Note that the first two sites below the **No results found for “water vapor is a feedback loop”** message are skepticalscience, which is to be expected, as it is a main source of so much bad science. You can remove the “loop” from the claim, you still won’t find it a valid claim. Nor in any textbook. Yes, I am talking about the claim “.You’d be dead wrong, of course; water vapor is a feedback loop, not a driver.” Especially this bullshit that “it is **a feedback loop** ”, which is just batspit lunacy. Not only is a fiction, the basic concept isn’t even valid. It’s one of those made up things the new breed of idiot climacticologists just made up, in order to bolster the idea that a tiny little warming will feedback into a huge disastrous amount of warming, all due to water vapor. If that falls, they have zero, nothing at all to be alarmed about, in regards to temperatures. Obviously the potential change to the pH of the oceans is a serious fucking problem, and for no other reason we need to stop burning fossil fuels at the record pace we see. How to do something about that is a huge topic. But you can’t just make up something and claim something, and then refuse to debate the claim, not online you can’t. OK I guess you can, but people will mock you and shit like that. But goddamn, I was clear about what I stated, no confusion there. You want to take something else from a textbook and crow aboput victory, you go right ahead. You complete fuckhead. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1618 "2014-01-30T02:23:16Z")
Here’s the thing about this lunacy of “water vapor makes it hotter” or “water vapor acts as a feedback, more water vapor, more heating, more vapor, more heating”. It’s bullshit. It is made up out of whole cloth, it has no science behind it, no experiments, no theory and no evidence. It doesn’t matter how many people repeat it, or how many fuckheads write it down, or how many clueless fuckheads teach it to others. It has no trail of evidence, no hypothesis, no theory, no experiments, and even the physics used are faulty. It just is not true. And this can proven with ease. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1619 "2014-01-30T02:29:40Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Dude, in all seriousness, please make it clear when you’re quoting from another thread. The post above, two posts back, contains posts from another thread. I forgot. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1620 "2014-01-30T03:34:23Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Would you care to provide three specific examples of “weather on steroids”? 1. You’re a fucking idiot not worth my time. 2. You’re a fucking idiot not worth my time. 3. You’re a fucking idiot not worth my time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=80) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=82)