# I'm sick of this Global Warming! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440 "2013-08-16T18:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 92
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1821 "2014-02-07T11:12:03Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Really? Because back in your own post #1761, you yourself said pretty much exactly the same thing as a simplified summary of basic global warming science:". To be fair, though, we HAVE been laughing in his face about it. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1822 "2014-02-07T17:14:03Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Really? Because back in your own post #1761, you yourself said pretty much exactly the same thing as a simplified summary of basic global warming science: No, I didn’t say anything like that. In fact, what I typed out is still right there. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > Increasing CO2 in the earth’s atmosphere, being a well mixed gas, persists and increases in all parts of the atmosphere, and since it absorbs and heats and re-radiates some of the IF red not absorbed by any other greenhouse gas, causes a positive imbalance of the radiation budget, leading to warming. > > … > > The expected feedbacks from the small amount of CO2 forcing calculated are the real issue, … It’s more like the mechanic says, “You have been putting a little more antifreeze in and the increase is causing your engine to run hotter. This will cause the oil to get hotter, which will cause the engine to run hotter, leading to the radiator not working right, and your engine is going to get so hot it will be destroyed. The only answer is to buy a different car. One that runs on solar power. Or stop driving.” What? “Or, you could pay me a lot of money and I will buy somebody in another country a car that runs on sunlight and cow farts, and then you can keep driving this car”. Seriously? That’s your diagnosis? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1823 "2014-02-07T17:19:44Z")
I didn’t think anyone would respond to my erudite and easy to understand post. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > The mechanism of CO2 forced warming would be one of those things that you would think, I mean you really would, you would think skepticalscience or realclimate would have laid out in **both simple and complex forms, with maths and physics and all, to explain the most important thing of all** to anyone who is interested. Why do you think it’s so hard to simply link to the physics of CO2 enhanced greenhouse effect science? Why was GIGO, of all people, unable to link to a single page that lays out, in both the essence, as well as the physics, the theory of global warming? Why do do few people (who never ever stop posting about it) not actually understand the physics of greenhouse gas warming? Much less the reasons for the predictions about what we should see from CO2 forced global warming? The UN and a lot of other bodies have spent a lot of money on this. And there isn’t a single page on the internet that explains the most basic thing? Why is that? (it’s a rhetorical question) ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1824 "2014-02-07T17:30:34Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > tl;dr = An explanation of both why NH winters have been trending colder, and why the CO2 theory turned out to be wrong so far. Long post with links and reasoning and a clear statement, about both theory, predictions and observations. Chock full of science. The idiocy that we see in response. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nope, everyone can see that **you do not have an alternative** of what clearly is the case, the National Academy of Sciences is talking about only one theory, and it is AGW. Remember, you told us that the NAS is not telling us what theory is the one they are talking about in that summary. [What theory is then if not AGW?](http://news.softpedia.com/news/NAS-Recognizes-Global-Warming-as-Established-Theory-182263.shtml) Note that the link does not contain any definition, description or anything really about the theory. Just like skepticwiki does not, and Wikipedia does not, it’s like some insane clown house. > [@brazil84](#): > > I doubt that any of the warmist posters here have a clear idea of exactly what is and is not claimed by their side; what is and is not predicted by their side; or what factual evidence supports those claims and predictions. > > My sense is that they simply repeat the same vague claims again and again so they can pretend to themselves and others that they are morally and intellectually superior. Thus the temper tantrums when presented with questions they cannot answer. Yeah, but since there isn’t a fucking web page that explains it, I can understand why they are so fucking ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1825 "2014-02-07T17:40:19Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > my erudite and easy to understand post. I’m wavering between: 1. “Cite please.” and 1. “Well, when you’ve had only one such post in the thread, it’s understandable it might get overlooked.” Your choice. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1826 "2014-02-07T18:38:45Z")
I laugh when I read stupid trolls in this thread. They always jump in with nothing but an insult, and always ignore any science. (and they actually think they are contributing somehow) Priceless. Like when they see science shit like the following. > [@](#): > > **The most up to date consensus from global climate models predicts warming in the Northern Hemisphere** (NH) high- to mid-latitudes during boreal winter. However, recent trends in observed NH winter surface temperatures diverge from these projections. For the last two decades, large-scale cooling trends exist instead across large stretches of eastern North America and northern Eurasia. We argue that this unforeseen trend is likely not due to internal variability alone. [http://www.aer.com/news-events/resou...eal-winter-coo](http://www.aer.com/news-events/resou...eal-winter-coo) [http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/7/1/014007](http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/7/1/014007) What the fuck does that mean? > [@](#): > > The most up to date consensus from global climate models predicts warming in the Northern Hemisphere (NH) high- to mid-latitudes during boreal winter. That is **common knowledge to climate science**. CO2 forced warming absolutely means winter warming, especially in the NH. It’s a key feature of GhG warming. The alarmists doesn’t actually know this. Which is hilarious. > [@](#): > > However, recent trends in observed NH winter surface temperatures diverge from these projections. Newspeak for “what happened was completely the opposite of what we expected to see happen”. Winters got worse, not warmer. > [@](#): > > For the last two decades, large-scale cooling trends exist instead across large stretches of eastern North America and northern Eurasia. In essence, the goddamn colder winters, with much more snow, can’t be ignored any longer. It’s become a real bitch. > [@](#): > > We argue that this unforeseen trend is likely not due to internal variability alone. In other words, not only did shit go nothing like we expected, but we think it’s actually CAUSED by global warming. And we will tell you why. The unexpected rapid melting of sea ice, (not predicted either), has led to unexpected early heavy snow, which leads to a feedback effect making it much fucking colder, with more snow, in the NH winters. It’s the closest you will see to anyone admitting **the models were completely wrong about winters** , and shit is going down in completely unexpected ways. GIGOgalloper can’t answer this, because SkS has ignored this. And you won’t find it on Wattsupwiththat either. **It’s one reason I fucking hate both sides in the climate wars**. Obviously we are seeing global warming, just not the way it was predicted. No surprise there. “Science and Mother Nature are in a marriage where Science is always surprised to come home and find Mother Nature blowing the neighbor.” What is surprising is how many fuckhead global warmers don’t actually know shit about what they CONSTANTLY preach about. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1827 "2014-02-07T18:43:18Z")
“We argue that this unforeseen trend is likely not due to internal variability alone.” That is a crucial point, because if the winters were colder than fuck for only one year out of ten, it’s just goddamn weather. Global warming doesn’t say ALL winters will be warmer. Just the TREND should be towards warmer. That the TREND is going the other way, and at a global scale now, that is pretty hard to hand wave away. Doesn’t mean the laws of physics are broken, doesn’t mean CO2 isn’t a greenhouse gas, doesn’t even mean warming has reversed, or stopped. As I pointed out, with abundant evidence, it’s the goddamn colder winter trend that has pulled the global mean down. **Summers most places are still trending up**. Same for spring, and usually for the fall as well. All trending warmer. But you add that goddamn winter data, and we actually get an annual global drop. Which is a good reason for not looking at the global annual mean temperature anomaly for your sermons. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1828 "2014-02-07T20:22:48Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > " […] The only answer is to buy a different car. One that runs on solar power. Or stop driving." > > What? > > “Or, you could pay me a lot of money and I will buy somebody in another country a car that runs on sunlight and cow farts, and then you can keep driving this car”. > > Seriously? > > That’s your diagnosis? No, it’s not the **mechanic** telling you this, it’s the auto loan officer: i.e., the guy who sets the conditions under which you can own and use a car. You may not like what the loan officer’s telling you, but that doesn’t mean you get to blame the mechanic for it. In other words, just because you’re dissatisfied with some of the proposed _policies_ for mitigating climate change doesn’t mean that the _science_ of climate change research is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1829 "2014-02-07T20:28:19Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I laugh when I read stupid trolls in this thread. They always jump in with nothing but an insult, and always ignore any science. (and they actually think they are contributing somehow) Hey, if you don’t want people trolling you, maybe you shouldn’t act like such a stupid dick. Just a suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1830 "2014-02-07T21:28:13Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Hey, if you don’t want people trolling you, maybe you shouldn’t act like such a stupid dick. Just a suggestion. Big trolls keep on trolling … trolling trolling trolling on the river ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1831 "2014-02-07T22:06:48Z")
Would someone be so kind as to provide me the proper definition of “trolling”? Because it looks to me like **fxm** is tossing it about in a cavalier, indiscriminate and incongruous way. Or has its meaning broadened to the extent that it simply means “actions of someone who annoys me”? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1832 "2014-02-07T22:12:16Z")
Lets take a look at some of the worst dick moves so far > [@FXMastermind](#): > > It certainly seems so. But to be the Devil’s Advocate, I do think there are organized and highly motivated people with a lot of money, who do indeed attack and try to destroy any real effort to reduce fossil fuel consumption. > > The movement to reduce fossil fuels is a direct threat to incredibly powerful and ruthless interest who do not want any decrease in their profits, and certainly are capable of messing with anyone who actually seems to be competing with them. > > And the issue of the oceans is real, no climate change needed. As far as we know, if the CO2 levels keep increasing, and it is a direct result of immense fossil fuel burning, we are changing the Ph of the world’s oceans. Life can adapt of course, but a rapid change may lead to harmful results, and this needs to be dealt with. > > Currently it is nothing compared to the more mundane but destructive activities that are killing coral reefs with abandon. yep, that’s acting like a dick alright. You can tell because there were no responses after that. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > Oh great. I killed another thread. > > Facts, logic, reason. The death of any internet discussion. You know in your heart it is true. Don’t believe it? Go read the important (in regards to this discussion) article by Plass then. here is the entire thing, free of charge. [The Carbon Dioxide Theory of Climatic Change](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2153-3490.1956.tb01206.x/pdf) Tellus Volume 8, Issue 2, pages 140–154, May 1956 It was sponsored by the U.S. Office of Naval Research. I know you are ingorant, so go fucking read it before you type another goddamn thing. (OK now that actually is a dick move there. The nerve. Expecting anyone to put forth actual effort.) Oh Jeez, here is some more “acting like a dick”. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > “the climate has warmed in recent decades and that human activities are already contributing adversely to global climate change” > > Is there a theory that explains how this has happened? > > What is the theory, and where is it defined, explained, whatever you want to call it. > > What predictions does the theory (or whatever name you use) say about changes, so that evidence can be presented to confirm. > > Does the AGW theory (or whatever you use to name it) predict feedback from water vapor? How will the scientific world know if this is occurring? > > What is the science behind the prediction? > > Those are the questions being asked, which obviously are being ignored by the cocksure alarmists insisting it is happening. > > What is “it”? Obviously [skepticalscience.com](http://skepticalscience.com) has no page explaining this. Or we would see it spammed over and over by Gigobuster. > > If you use a term, and make claims, you are required to explain what you mean. Yes, asking somebody to actually know what they mean by using a term, that is the essence of a dick. I don’t know why FX isn’t banned yet. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > It’s the lack of clear speaking, and scientific explanations that is sickening. > > No other branch of science suffers as badly from this sort of communication problem. Goddamn right. But we LIKE it that way. If you are specific about things, people will just try and pole holes in your theory. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1833 "2014-02-07T22:14:53Z")
Haha “pole holes” should be “poke holes”, but it was funny so I left it be. Trolling is any post or activity designed to just get a rise out of somebody, or a group of somebodies, that doesn’t contribute in any way. Like just posting in a thread to be insulting, rather than explain why you are butthurt over something somebody said or did. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1834 "2014-02-07T23:04:14Z")
Hmm. I think my ears are burning. I was all about singing your praises, Sparky, but one hallmark of the skilled troll is being able to read one’s target…yanno, in order to really get the knife in and twist it. Alas, you’ve completely whiffed on your last couple tries. I thought you were better than that. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1835 "2014-02-07T23:04:34Z")
Given that the OP itself was a troll post, which aided he mods in deciding to drop your thread into the Pit, I would say you have no room to complain. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2014, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1836 "2014-02-08T12:41:38Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Milankovitch cycles **are** produced by orbital perturbations. That’s not what Milutin Milankovitch said. This is what, fourth fifth time you’ve used non-standard definitions. This is how [NOAA defines Milankovitch cycles](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/milankovitch.html). Read it and weep, no mention of perturbations. > [@brazil84](#): > > The Warmist Mechanic: Umm, there’s something wrong with your car. I won’t tell you exactly what is wrong, or what will go wrong, or when. But something bad will happen so you better give me $10,000 to study the problem. And if you dare ask for specifics or express skepticism, then you are a denialist moron. You **MUST** be a man, because this is exactly what auto mechanics tell women all the time. * * * My claim is that only complete morons would use AGW as a reason to shut down coal production in it’s entirety, rather than using the coal mine companies dumping of fuming carboxylic acid into our waterways. Ask the people of West Virginia right about now whether AGW should be our main concern. _And one day when the oil barons have all dripped dry and the nights are seen to draw colder They’ll beg for your strength, your gentle power your noble grace and your bearing And you’ll strain once again to the sound of the gulls in the wake of the deep plough, sharing._ ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1837 "2014-02-08T23:24:56Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > That’s not what Milutin Milankovitch said. This is what, fourth fifth time you’ve used non-standard definitions. This is how [NOAA defines Milankovitch cycles](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/milankovitch.html). Read it and weep, no mention of perturbations. Fine, what are driving these perturbations? Venus? Mars? Jupiter? To what extent? You seem to submit that the Earth’s orbit is expanding, which I imagine is probably correct, but bear in mind that the sun is also experiencing solar warming at a denoised steady, gradual rate. Can you show how the expansion rate of the earth’s orbit relates to the increase in solar output? And whether this has a genuine effect that corresponds to the measurements that we have been observing? > [@](#): > > My claim is that only complete morons would use AGW as a reason to shut down coal production in it’s entirety, rather than using the coal mine companies dumping of fuming carboxylic acid into our waterways. Ask the people of West Virginia right about now whether AGW should be our main concern. Climate change remediation is about more than dealing with fossil fuel use. Deforestation is another important concern, because forests tend to provide considerable carbon-sinkage. Ultimately, the things we should do to curb a growing greenhouse effect are the same things we ought to be doing anyway if we want to maintain a livable biosphere. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1838 "2014-02-08T23:32:09Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Ultimately, the things we should do to curb a growing greenhouse effect are the same things we ought to be doing anyway if we want to maintain a livable biosphere. Truth. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1839 "2014-02-09T00:38:25Z")
In other words, we’ve got yet another largely insoluble problem that threatens life as we know it. Sometimes I wish one of these looming disasters would go ahead and happen, just to end the suspense. — [Cecil Adams](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/832/do-cow-and-termite-flatulence-threaten-the-earths-atmosphere) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440/1840 "2014-02-09T14:36:18Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > In other words, we’ve got yet another largely insoluble problem that threatens life as we know it. Sometimes I wish one of these looming disasters would go ahead and happen, just to end the suspense. I’m always a little disappointed when an asteroid just misses the earth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=91) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sick-of-this-global-warming/666440.md?page=93)