# I'm so mad I could sue! Illegaly Fired? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 12, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898 "2004-03-12T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/21 "2004-03-12T19:31:18Z")
I really hate when people talk about legal issues they know nothing about. First of all, the first thing one should to do in a situation like this is call the state’s labor department. Most likely you have an issue not of employment contract, but failure to pay wages and/or commission at termination. Most state’s labor departments will handle many of these complaints against employers, depending on the circumstances and state law. Most state law provides that if you sue on a wage claim, you can receive attorney’s fees and possibly double or triple damages. However, this could be a long and complex process, and you may do better through the state labor department. (I am a lawyer, but not yours. This is not advice but a general discussion of the law. For specific advice, contact a lawyer in your jurisdicition.) ---
**Author:** ![Skytiger227](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Skytiger227](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skytiger227)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/22 "2004-03-12T20:30:16Z")
I’d just like to say thank you to all of the SDMB ppl who took the time to give me some advice. The popular concensus is to talk to a lawyer, and that is what I intend to do. My jerk boss was also sexually harassing me (looking down my shirt, telling me I should come home with him and his girlfriend…) but i cant prove it. I told my friends and family, that would only be heresay in court, right? Yea, I have only an oral contract for the commissions, but I’m sure a good lawyer could help. I also am contacting the labor board as well as the better buisness bureau. Thank you guys for all your help!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/23 "2004-03-12T20:47:11Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > I really hate when people talk about legal issues they know nothing about. > > First of all, the first thing one should to do in a situation like this is call the state’s labor department. Most likely you have an issue not of employment contract, but failure to pay wages and/or commission at termination. Most state’s labor departments will handle many of these complaints against employers, depending on the circumstances and state law. > > Most state law provides that if you sue on a wage claim, you can receive attorney’s fees and possibly double or triple damages. However, this could be a long and complex process, and you may do better through the state labor department. > > (I am a lawyer, but not yours. This is not advice but a general discussion of the law. For specific advice, contact a lawyer in your jurisdicition.) Billdo is right. You may have what they call a wage and hour claim for unpaid wages. You can call your labor department, and they might help you. In my experience labor departments are pretty usesless when it comes to enforcement. They may make a few phone calls, but employers know that they are toothless tigers, and will stand pat. By all means, call. But still, call a lawyer. Here, BTW, is New York’s payment of wages law: > [@](#): > > S 191. Frequency of payments. 1. Every employer shall pay wages in > accordance with the following provisions: > a. Manual worker.— (i) A manual worker shall be paid weekly and not > later than seven calendar days after the end of the week in which the > wages are earned; provided however that a manual worker employed by an > employer authorized by the commissioner pursuant to subparagraph (ii) of > this paragraph or by a non-profitmaking organization shall be paid in > accordance with the agreed terms of employment, but not less frequently > than semi-monthly. > (ii) The commissioner may authorize an employer which has in the three > years preceding the application employed an average of one thousand or > more persons in this state or has for one year preceding the application > employed an average of one thousand or more persons in this state and > has for three years preceding the application employed an average of > three thousand or more persons outside the state to pay less frequently > than weekly but not less frequently than semi-monthly if the employer > furnishes satisfactory proof to the commissioner of its continuing > ability to meet its payroll responsibilities. In making this > determination the commissioner shall consider the following: (A) the > employer`s history meeting its payroll responsibilities in New York state or if no such history in New York state is available, other financial information, as requested by the commissioner, which will assist the commissioner in determining the likelihood of the employer`s > continuing ability to meet payroll responsibilities; (B) proof of the > employer`s coverage for workers` compensation and disability; (C) proof > that there are no outstanding warrants of the department of taxation and > finance or the department of labor against the employer for failure to > remit state personal income tax withholdings or unemployment insurance > contributions; and (D) proof that the employer has a computerized record > keeping system for payroll which, at a minimum, specifies hours worked, > rate of pay, gross wages, deductions and date of pay for each employee. > If the employers` manual workers are represented by a labor organization, the commissioner shall not grant an employer`s application > for authorization under this subparagraph unless that labor organization > consents thereto. > Upon notice to the employer and an opportunity to be heard, the > commissioner may rescind such authorization whenever the commissioner > has determined, based upon the factors enumerated above, that the > employer is no longer able to meet its payroll responsibilities as > previously authorized. > b. Railroad worker.— A railroad worker shall be paid on or before > Thursday of each week the wages earned during the seven-day period > ending on Tuesday of the preceding week; and provided further that at > the written request and notification of address by any employee, every > railroad corporation, with the exception of those commuter railroads > under the jurisdiction of the metropolitan transportation authority, > shall mail every check for wages of such employee via the United States > postal service, first class mail. > c. Commission salesman.— A commission salesman shall be paid the > wages, salary, drawing account, commissions and all other monies earned > or payable in accordance with the agreed terms of employment, but not > less frequently than once in each month and not later than the last day > of the month following the month in which they are earned; provided, > however, that if monthly or more frequent payment of wages, salary, > drawing accounts or commissions are substantial, then additional > compensation earned, including but not limited to extra or incentive > earnings, bonuses and special payments, may be paid less frequently than > once in each month, but in no event later than the time provided in the > employment agreement or compensation plan. The employer shall furnish a > commission salesman, upon written request, a statement of earnings paid > or due and unpaid. > d. Clerical and other worker.— A clerical and other worker shall be > paid the wages earned in accordance with the agreed terms of employment, > but not less frequently than semi-monthly, on regular pay days > designated in advance by the employer. > 2. No employee shall be required as a condition of employment to > accept wages at periods other than as provided in this section. > 3. If employment is terminated, the employer shall pay the wages not > later than the regular pay day for the pay period during which the > termination occurred, as established in accordance with the provisions > of this section. If requested by the employee, such wages shall be paid > by mail. And the definition of “Earned commission”: > [@](#): > > b) “Earned commission” means a commission due for services or > merchandise which is due according to the terms of an applicable > contract or, when there is no applicable contractual provision, a > commission due for merchandise which has actually been delivered to, > accepted by, and paid for by the customer, notwithstanding that the > sales representative`s services may have terminated. Notice that it takes us full circle. You have to look at your contract. There’s other good stuff in the statute, so here is a [link](http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=54&a=9) And [here](http://www.labor.state.ny.us/faq.html) is a FAQ from your state DOL. Good luck. And talk to a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/24 "2004-03-12T20:51:16Z")
Oh Pit. If sexual harrassment is involved, write a detailed letter to the company’s HR department RIGHT NOW! Give them as much specific information as you can remember – what the boss did, when he did it, who was around, who you told. You’re not looking to supply proof, you’re trying to provide enough information that HR has grounds to investigate the boss. Send that letter out first thing tomorrow morning. And keep a copy to show to your lawyer! ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/25 "2004-03-12T20:55:40Z")
Okay, and while we are at it: From the FAQ: Section 215 prescribes that no employer shall penalize any employee for making a complaint to the employer, to the Commissioner of Labor, or to the Commissioner’s representative, about any provision of the Labor Law. Violation of § 215, can bring a civil fine and separate civil action by the employee. To obtain the text of these statutes, go to: [http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=54&a=9](http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=54&a=9) The afformentioned retaliatory termination claim. And [here](http://www.labor.state.ny.us/pdf/Ls223.pdf) [are](http://www.labor.state.ny.us/pdf/Ls223_1.pdf) links to the forms that you need to complete in order to file a wage and hour claim for commissions. When you are done, you take them [here](http://www.labor.state.ny.us/business_ny/employer_responsibilities/workprot/lsdists.htm). Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/26 "2004-03-12T20:59:58Z")
You’re better off not making assumptions about – 1. What constitutes sexual harrassment. 2. What it takes to prove it. 3. Evidentiary rules. Just tell your lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/27 "2004-03-12T21:02:28Z")
> [@Skytiger227](#): > > My jerk boss was also sexually harassing me (looking down my shirt, telling me I should come home with him and his girlfriend…) but i cant prove it. I told my friends and family, that would only be heresay in court, right? Not. Contact the [EEOC](http://www.eeoc.gov/) and the [New York State Division of Human Rights](http://www.nysdhr.com/complaints.html). It is also very important to follow any internal company procedures for complaining about sexual harrassment. You should contact the HR department of the company right away, and formally complain. And once again, talk to a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/28 "2004-03-12T22:27:13Z")
IANAL, but I read lots of John Grisham novels. 🙂 Seriously, speaking as a layman, it sounds like there’re some potentially juicy elements that might add up to a real case. To the real lawyers here, wouldn’t it be fairly easy to set up a strategy? Subpeona Josh, the boss, and other potential witnesses and have at it. I can see it now. \*So, Mr. Josh, you are interested in handling Karaoke equipment, I understand… ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/29 "2004-03-13T02:38:41Z")
On a practical note, is your ex-boss the owner of the mortgage company or is he merely the manager of one branch of a larger company. If he’s only a little wheel in a big corporate machine, I’m guessing that a couple of letters from an attorney outlining the situation to the mortgage company’s corporate counsel will at the very least get you a quick & fair settlement of your outstanding wage claims as well as an investigation – and subsequent caning of your ex-boss – should your claims pan out. If what you say is true, your ex-boss is a lawsuit waiting to happen. The company will probably be happy if you call this loose cannon to their attention, though I doubt they’d admit that to you! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/30 "2004-03-13T03:12:31Z")
> [@Truth Seeker](#): > > On a practical note, is your ex-boss the owner of the mortgage company or is he merely the manager of one branch of a larger company. If he’s only a little wheel in a big corporate machine, I’m guessing that a couple of letters from an attorney outlining the situation to the mortgage company’s corporate counsel will at the very least get you a quick & fair settlement of your outstanding wage claims as well as an investigation – and subsequent caning of your ex-boss – should your claims pan out. Wow. I’ve never heard of disciplining employees in that fashion before. At least not in the US. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/31 "2004-03-13T03:19:23Z")
> [@Skytiger227](#): > > My jerk boss was also sexually harassing me (looking down my shirt, telling me I should come home with him and his girlfriend…) but i cant prove it. I told my friends and family, that would only be heresay in court, right? Well, yes, but that doesn’t mean you can’t use it in court, necessarily. The definition of hearsay is “an out-of-court statement, offered to prove the truth of the matter stated.” However, probably 2/3 of the evidence section on my bar exam, and I expect most others, was on the hearsay _exceptions_ - the conditions under which hearsay in admissible in court. I agree with everyone else that you need a lawyer. You also need to stop posting to this thread until you do. Published statements to others in a public forum can inadvertently nuke a lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/32 "2004-03-13T03:30:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Seriously, speaking as a layman, it sounds like there’re some potentially juicy elements that might add up to a real case. Does anyone else have any sneaking suspicions that the story we’ve been told is a crock? My bullshit meter is beeping big time. “HE WORKS FOR FREE! I TELLS YA, HE WORKS FOR FREE!” What does that mean? You mean to try to tell me that this other guy is just literally working for nothing? I’ve often found “He works for free!” is another way of saying, “He puts in extra effort, sucks up, wants to get ahead, and I don’t want to do that!” My apologies if the story is true, but the sexual harassment bit just looks like tacked on bullshit, once you got even a lukewarm response on your original bit. Nothing about this feels right or accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/33 "2004-03-13T03:32:37Z")
Get a notebook and write down everything you can remember, dates and times and details. See a lawyer. See the department of labor. ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/34 "2004-03-13T04:45:10Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > What does that mean? You mean to try to tell me that this other guy is just literally working for nothing? I’ve often found “He works for free!” is another way of saying, “He puts in extra effort, sucks up, wants to get ahead, and I don’t want to do that!” I think it’s the sucking up that bothers people, and when it’s percieved that sucking up was the major factor in a promotion and not so much who did the better job. It bugs people. ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/35 "2004-03-13T05:02:14Z")
> [@](#): > > I think it’s the sucking up that bothers people, and when it’s percieved that sucking up was the major factor in a promotion and not so much who did the better job. It bugs people. Sure, if it really is. That was the poorly written part of my original point. Put another way, and within the theme of my original letter, how often is one (often lazy or disgruntled) man’s “sucking up” another man’s “positive work attitude?” Again, just saying that something seemed off-center when I read the original post; I wasn’t there, but it’s been my experience that no one just works for free for kicks and giggles. ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/36 "2004-03-13T06:15:51Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > Sure, if it really is. That was the poorly written part of my original point. Put another way, and within the theme of my original letter, how often is one (often lazy or disgruntled) man’s “sucking up” another man’s “positive work attitude?” > > Again, just saying that something seemed off-center when I read the original post; I wasn’t there, but it’s been my experience that no one just works for free for kicks and giggles. It does depend on the case. It’s human nature to just assume it could’nt be one’s own fault. I’ve had to fight this tendencey in myself sometimes. I think someone who assumed it was their own fault by default would be suffering from self esteam issues. However I think anyone can also see why an employer would want to make it so the butt kissing ( like the karoeke stuff) was required for employment and advancement, however wrong that would be. I’m not sure what the ratios is however. Normally someone I know gets fired, layed off, or passed over, we have a “man your (ex)boss sucks/what a bunch of butt suckers” session. Thats alot more enjoyable then grilling them for the facts. My personal experance is kind of limited. When I am at work I try to avoid politics and do a good job. Doesn’t seem to wor out too good though. ---
**Author:** ![Skytiger227](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Skytiger227](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skytiger227)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/37 "2004-03-16T19:23:58Z")
Well I tried to talk to the HR person but they said they would call me back and never did. Then my boss called me back and told me my check is in the mail, dont set foot on the premises, and that he has witnesses that i was making a resume on their computer. He said he made it on paperwork that I never worked there, and thats why he paid me by personal check. I have no idea what the resume thing is all about. No lawyer will help me. I guess I am out of luck. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/38 "2004-03-16T19:32:39Z")
Be sure you report the income on next year’s tax return. You might also want to photocopy that check a few times and, once it’s completely through your bank and there’s no way he can stop it or get the monry back, notify the IRS and the state Department of Revenue that this guy is falsifying payroll information. I somehow doubt that he properly withheld payroll taxes on his personal check. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/39 "2004-03-16T19:52:07Z")
**SlyFrog** wrote > [@](#): > > Does anyone else have any sneaking suspicions that the story we’ve been told is a crock? My bullshit meter is beeping big time. I’m afraid mine is beeping too. In addition to your points about Josh working for free, when he’s likely out performing others, there’s the $10k commission thing. If someone is really doing so good that you’re owed $10k in commissions, then you can bet they boss is getting a commission of his own on that work. And no boss but an idiot boss would fire someone who was so successful. The boss would much rather have someone who gets him commission checks then someone who carries his DJ equipment. Here’s what I think happened: You were not producing, and were asked to work longer hours so you would be. You felt this was “working for free” (it’s not, btw, as you’re paid on commission), and refused. In the process, you complained about a co-worker who **was** producing, and in the same breath told the boss that he was unfair. You were fired. When all was said and done, you hadn’t actually closed anything, so you are owed zero in commissions. As we speak, I’m in the process of firing a whiner who doesn’t produce and complains about others that do. I’m sorry, but at this moment, I have zero patience for that sort of attitude. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898/40 "2004-03-16T22:26:19Z")
So **Bill H.** and **SlyFrog** wander in and, on the basis of nothing but their own self-importance, declare the OP to be lying. I was under the impression that this forum required questions with factual answers, and that it required those questions to be answered factually. To me, this means that questions in this forum need to be taken at face value. So, in attempting to answer the OP’s question, one should ask: Assuming we have been given the whole story, what options are open to **Skytiger**? If this was a Pit thread, i could understand some skepticism. But in GQ, i think people have a right to assume that their questions will be taken on good faith, and that Dopers will provide good faith answers, as the more responsible posters in this thread have done. My attempt at a factual answer: you should consult a lawyer. Bet no-one’s given you that advice yet. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-mad-i-could-sue-illegaly-fired/233898.md?page=3)