# I'm so pissed at my son. Tough love is hard. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739 "2005-09-27T21:12:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ainigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@ainigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ainigma)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/41 "2005-09-29T14:34:18Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > Dolores Reborn’s son is an asshole Its another one that only Dolores can answer. Is your son a worthless asshole Dolores and if yes how much of that is his familys fault? ---
**Author:** ![ainigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@ainigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ainigma)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/42 "2005-09-29T14:35:36Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Do you know how the legal system works? Parents aren’t part of it. In this case Dolores has clearly stated that she could have interfered but chose not to…its on her previous link. ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/43 "2005-09-29T14:46:18Z")
> [@ainigma](#): > > I would like to hear a response from the mother …is that how you really feel Dolores? I’m not sure what you’re asking. Of course I don’t think he’s worthless! If I did I wouldn’t be posting here and gnashing my teeth at the stupid choices he has made and continues to make. I did (in the past) enable him to make those choices. I gave him chance after chance to change his ways. I wanted him to go to school, and be a productive member of society. But he would rather get high and party than prepare for his future. What’s a mom to do? I want him to be happy. He’s got to realize ON HIS OWN that his choices have consequences. _Telling_ him doesn’t work. He’ll grow up eventually. (I hope!) **Ainigma** , I’m sorry I overlooked the fact that you have “4 wonderfull children ranging in age from 11-24 and they are all living at home and studing various degrees at university.” Good on ya. ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/44 "2005-09-29T14:51:27Z")
> [@ainigma](#): > > In this case Dolores has clearly stated that she could have interfered but chose not to…its on her previous link. Damn Skippy! I refused to pay his probation fees. That was part of the reason he got his probation revoked. Failing the drug test, and hardly doing his community service were the others. What would you do? Continue to enable the behavior and bail his ass out? I can’t believe you would think that is the answer. Are you saying that my son is this way because I didn’t love him enough? Then fuck you, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/46 "2005-09-29T15:01:21Z")
I’m curious **Ainigma** -at what point do you feel a parent is no longer responsible for the bad choices that their adult children make? If **Dolores Reborn** had paid his probation fees, he still would have failed the pee test because it was his decision to continue to smoke pot. So where do\*\* you \*\* draw the line between helping and enabling? ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/48 "2005-09-29T15:10:48Z")
> [@ainigma1](#): > > It seems like I am trying to give you a hard time…I am not, I know you love your son I just wonder if he does? From your postings here it doesnt sound like a horrible kid, maybe a little confused and immature. > > My opinion in a nutshell is support him emotionally without critisism, without anger, without unsolicited advice and hopefully in 10 years time he will look back and think of the time you saved his life. You are not allowed to log in under two user names. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/49 "2005-09-29T15:12:29Z")
> [@ainigma1](#): > > What I am saying is simple…our children are our products…as simple as that. > > you dont blame a corrupted program and abuse it…rather the programmer. And yes I understand that we are not perfect and we make mistakes as parents but do we acknowledge them? we expect our kids to own up to their mistakes but we never do. > cya tomm…going to bed You know, Mrs. Gilmore had more than one son. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/50 "2005-09-29T15:26:30Z")
> [@ainigma1](#): > > you dont blame a corrupted program and abuse it…rather the programmer. I’m not a computer programmed by my parents, and neither is **Dolores** ’ son. Unlike computers, we kids have a thing called “free will”, which means we can choose whether to act as our parents taught us, or not. Computers have no free will- they do what they’re programmed to do, and have no choice to do otherwise. That freedom comes at a price- you have to be responsible for your own choices once you become an adult. Why and how should **Dolores** ’ son learn to make more responsible choices if someone is bailing him out every time he screws up? ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/51 "2005-09-29T15:26:43Z")
> [@ainigma1](#): > > What I am saying is simple…our children are our products…as simple as that. You know, for every problem, there’s a solution that’s easy, simple, and usually wrong. Kids are complex - and I’d only agree with your analogy if: 1. parents were the sole ‘input’ the kid got 2. kids were unable to resist a parent’s indoctrination I have known some very good parents that have had some very assholish kids. Ultimately, what we all do is our best and cross our fingers, because we realize that it’s the kid’s choice as to what sort of person they will be. As for my previous use of ‘worthless’…well, I don 't have any stake in this, and can only go by what Dolores has told us. But someone that flouts the law, abuses the privilege of a supportive family, and has no interest in being a productive member of society fits that bill pretty well. Of course, there are intangibles that his mom would see that I do not. But that don’t make him right, as the saying goes. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/52 "2005-09-29T16:14:19Z")
I don’t think anyone, including **dolores** , is denying that her son is the product of her upbringing. I think what she’s saying is that she has realized that she has made some mistakes in his upbringing, including spoiling him and doing too much for him, and is trying to rectify these mistakes now rather than later, and her son is resisting, of course. Why wouldn’t he? He’s used to getting his way, and getting to take the easy way on everything, and all of a sudden, mom’s changed the rules, and things aren’t easy for him any more. Dolores is not abandoning her son by changing her relationship with him now; she is actually supporting him better than ever, because she’s forcing him to stand on his own two feet and grow up. I think we can all agree that it would have been better for her to start years ago, but that ship has sailed; better late than never. **ainigma** , your mom picked you up and loved you unconditionally, and you say that is what turned your life around. But what if you had gone back to the gutter repeatedly, and your mother had to come pick you up again and again and again, and you just abused her trust and love? You don’t think there should have come a time when you were an adult that she just said, “Fine. If you want to live in a gutter, that’s your choice. You’re an adult now.” A parent can’t make their adult children do anything. The adult children have to make their own way. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/53 "2005-09-29T18:03:50Z")
My son was much the same way when he was 21. I had a very hard time letting him take responsibility for his actions. My husband (not his dad) and I fought about cutting him loose and letting him stand on his own two feet, and I felt so guilty for so much that I had a really hard time letting go. I finally did, and he’s now supporting himself and working steadily and living the life of a caring, responsible person. He’s still very much the anti-establishment type (much like me!) but he’s starting to use his head and heart and making better decisions. All I can say is that some kids need to take the hard road. They don’t take advice well, and they don’t quickly learn from their own mistakes. Delores, I wish you the best. I think you’ll find that the “tough love” approach will eventually pay off. He knows you love him. Trust me…it will get better. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/54 "2005-09-29T22:31:43Z")
Maybe it is time to cut him off. He is an adult. You can not control him and you are not responsible for his actions or the repercussions or his well being anymore. If he wants to self destruct, he made the choice. There is no reason to buy into it or enable it. Don’t buy into any guilt trip he is selling you, because it is bullshit. As long as momma keeps cleaning up the mess, he will keep shitting everywhere. It’s cold, harsh and unforgiving, but there has to be a stop somewhere. After all, this is not some child who doesn’t know any better. He knows, but just does not care. ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/55 "2005-09-29T23:36:25Z")
I’m feeling better and better after the phone call I just had with David. (He is the only one with a cell phone.) David went to work this morning at around 7:00 am. Pete was scheduled to work a double starting at 10:30. They left Keisha in Victoria. She supposedly stole two roasted chickens?? (Can you say hot?) And some Maybelline products… David’s phone kept cutting out, so all I got from him was she’s a fucking psycho. Which I can definitely attest to. When Pete first went to jail, Keisha had his truck. I went to get it, per his instructions, and she freaked out and screamed bloody murder. “He told me I could keep it!” No, ma’am, he told me to pick it up. Hmmm… David told me she screamed like a banshee when she was arrested for shoplifting. I advised him that maybe she wasn’t the best person to hang around. As I have told Pete. Somebody at work that I have told this saga to suggested it might make a great reality show… “Dumbasses.” like that show “Jackass.” ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/56 "2005-09-30T01:54:58Z")
My inlaws are still bailing out my sister-in-law - she’s in her 40s now, and has been getting into financial and legal jams ever since she was a teenager, not to mention abusing drugs and alcohol since before then. None of her several siblings will help her, as they’ve all washed their hands of her after she’s stolen from them/generally flipped out on them/etc. Her parents still think they have to bail her out - literally out of jail last summer when she and her (mutually) physically abusive (ex?) boyfriend got busted for disturbing the peace, then after that when she was about to be evicted and they paid her outstanding rent and the next few months’ worth of rent. Since then she’s received a settlement from a lawsuit as well as back-owed disability payments, and of course she hasn’t paid her parents back. Oh, they give her a little lecture and stuff, but they still fork over the cash, so that’s what matters. The only family get-togethers she shows up at are Christmas and the one closest to her birthday, because she gets presents. The others she swears she’ll be at, but then calls up claiming she’s too sick to come. So, **Dolores** , it’s just my opinion, but I think you did the right thing. Unless you’d like to be dealing with this sort of thing 20 years from now, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/57 "2005-09-30T05:44:45Z")
> [@Dolores Reborn](#): > > It’s not my fault, and it’s not my problem. FWIW, I think that’s a very healthy attitude, and I am not being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/58 "2005-09-30T05:51:53Z")
At some point you adopt a good coping method for dealing with dysfunctional people: **The Roller Coaster Model**. In this model, the f&^%$d-up person is the **roller coaster**. Pretty much every time you ride this thing, you get nauseous, banged-up, painfully-ejected or a bird craps on you. And it’s expensive, and you don’t get a volume discount. Or a customer loyalty discount. Or a senior citizen’s / AARP discounts. And they never fix the thing. Never. At some point, you learn to **watch** the roller coaster. You save money, avoid injury and bird strikes, and it’s free to watch. _So, you can be stupid and ride the roller coaster, or you can simply watch it from a safe distance._ ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/59 "2005-09-30T12:25:13Z")
Thanks for all the support, you guys. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/60 "2005-09-30T12:55:34Z")
I have two children, teenagers, good kids, no drugs, working to get good grades in school. You’re the Mommy. You’re supposed to protect him, kiss his boo-boos, chase away the monsters from under the bed. That’s what Mommies do. It’s very difficult to stand back and let your child fall on his ass. You want to catch them so they don’t hurt themselves. But what I think is hard for Mommies to do is untangle the outside monsters (bullies, falling off the bike, etc) from the inside monsters (not turning in homework, breaking curfew, skipping school.) I think the reason your son was so pissed at you is because you finally said No. He doesn’t have Mommy to catch him anymore, and now he has to slay the monsters himself. Good luck. You’ve done the right thing. The reason you know is because it’s so hard. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/61 "2005-09-30T20:18:10Z")
> [@ainigma1](#): > > What I am saying is simple…our children are our products…as simple as that. > > you dont blame a corrupted program and abuse it…rather the programmer. And yes I understand that we are not perfect and we make mistakes as parents but do we acknowledge them? we expect our kids to own up to their mistakes but we never do. > cya tomm…going to bed Let me guess, it’s “nurture” not “nature” in your mind, isn’t it? :dubious: You honestly believe that if a person grows up to be a criminal it’s because of some fault in the nurturing they got growing up, not that they were born flawed somehow.\* \*I believe it depends on the individual, it could be one, or the other, or a combination of both. Some people just choose to do wrong despite being well nurtured, others had no nurturing and bloom spectacularly, while others show the effects of thier horrific home environments starkly in their actions. ---
**Author:** ![no\_screen\_name\_for\_now](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@no\_screen\_name\_for\_now](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/no_screen_name_for_now)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739/62 "2005-10-01T18:26:44Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > DON’T call or visit him. I agree with everything that **Mr. Blue Sky** said except for that part. Call, visit, or write if you can. Let him know that you love him, that you hope he can pull himself out of the mess he’s made of his life, and that you’ll always be his mom. I’m a mom too, and I’m not going to try to blow smoke up your skirt by saying that I understand how you feel…I don’t, but I can sort of, maybe imagine how I would feel if one of my sons was making and remaking the same mistakes…helpless, guilty, and oh so very sad. Keep fighting the good fight, doll. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-pissed-at-my-son-tough-love-is-hard/323739.md?page=4)