# I'm SO sick of hearing "Trump voters are not bad people...we need to empathize with them". FUCK THAT **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 18, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921 "2016-10-18T04:00:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/41 "2016-10-18T14:33:42Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Suggestions are welcome. Build a wall around them? ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/42 "2016-10-18T15:06:46Z")
I think it’s safe to say that any one Clinton appoints to the Supreme Court will move jurisprudence towards the second amendment not being an individual right and towards there being fewer legal restrictions on abortion. I know several very good people who dislike everything about trump and feverently hope he’ll be a one term or less president but believe that allow the court to move that direction over then next 30 years will do more damage then 4 years of trump. I don’t think either of these positions make someone stupid or evil. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/43 "2016-10-18T15:22:52Z")
I should. It really, really should. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/44 "2016-10-18T15:26:23Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > We don’t elect presidents to be moral role models. We elect them to run the country. As such, Trump’s personal character is utterly irrelevant. You’re simply wrong. Very, very wrong. I’m a Republican, but not a conservative. The reason I haven’t abandoned the party is that the GOP is (supposed to be) the party of personal responsibility. The Democrats are all too eager to blame others for woes. The system keeps them down and prevents them from improving themselves. They deny responsibility for their outcomes. Republicans (traditionally) are better than that. Character matters: take responsibility for your actions and results. Trump (and you, apparently) have betrayed that core principle of the party. Trump has become a conservative Democrat, blaming the system and denying any personal responsibility for his own failures (personal and business). Republicans claiming that character does matter is the death knell of the party. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/45 "2016-10-18T15:28:04Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Again, I was surprised to find that they were Trump supporters. I knew they were conservatives, but thought they were in the “Never Trump” crowd. > So, are they good people or not? I’ve had the same experience as you. I think many are essentially good people who entered a misinformation bubble about 20 years ago and simply don’t recognize facts outside of it. The Hillary-hate is probably the longest-lived trope in that bubble. Trump didn’t actually sexually assault anybody, he just said some naughty things, and that’s far worse than Hillary personally bayoneting US troops in the chest in Benghazi. Trump’s a business failure and a tax dodger? Who knows? That’s a lot of numbers, I’m not a tax accountant. I have to include that it’s easy to be a good person and kindhearted at the individual level, but exist in a news bubble without even knowing it. The good people I know who support Trump are usually vocal supporters of their candidate, but this election year they’re completely silent. If you bring up Trump, they look sheepish for a moment and then go off on a tangent about how “corruption is just out of control, Hillary is so corrupt, we’ve got to stop it at any cost.” I have an additional theory that the right-wing news bubble, and the Trump sub-bubble within it, are conspiracy theories existing in the guise of a political movement. Once we understand them as conspiracy theory, then [these phenomena become a lot easier to comprehend, if not refute](http://www.aei.org/publication/the-trouble-with-conspiracy-theories/). ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/46 "2016-10-18T15:33:21Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Republicans claiming that character does not matter is the death knell of the party. Missing adverb! ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/47 "2016-10-18T15:35:00Z")
The only people that support Trump are rapists, murderers and people that day-dream about murdering every single non-whitey on the planet like Der Trihs. On the other hand the only people that support Hillary are criminals and Big Wall Street. Which is why I am voting for Bernie. At least he only wants to rape me financially. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/48 "2016-10-18T15:36:24Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > The only people that support Trump are rapists, murderers and people that day-dream about murdering every single non-whitey on the planet like Der Trihs. > > On the other hand the only people that support Hillary are criminals and Big Wall Street. > > Which is why I am voting for Bernie. At least he only wants to rape me financially. Sleep it off, **Drunky**. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/49 "2016-10-18T15:38:11Z")
I have a co-worker that I’ve developed a friendship with outside the office who I’ve known for a long time was a right wing Republican. Guns, borders, terrorism, etc. His ideas are abhorrent to me when it comes to political stuff, but we had always maintained a “keep it in perspective” tone when it came to discussing controversial political topics. That changed earlier this year, when he became a rather vocal Trump supporter. He was not a “nobody is left but Trump” reluctant supporter, nope he was onboard the TrumpTrain from day one. As his candidate voiced racist, misogynistic, and ignorant views, my friend became more okay with letting his true colors show. This is a guy with a white collar job making over $150K. He has a 5 bedroom house in the suburbs. His wife drives a Benz, and he just bought a $40K pickup. He is not some backwoods yahoo living in a trailer in the hinterlands of West Virginia. But he hates Muslims. Feels black people are stealing the government blind. Thinks woman are just things. Thinks every person from the Middle East has a supply of IEDS just waiting for the right moment. Completely convinced that all Dems want to come take his guns away in the middle of the night. He and I were on a business trip to London a few months back, and his constant comments on what every woman on the street looked like, ranging from “She’s hot” to far more crude. He also had this passive-aggressive thing he would do where, as we walked past some woman he found sexy, he would say, right as we walked by her but loud enough for her to hear, something like “Damn, that is a nice ass”. When I called him on this, he actually defended himself by saying “She should be complimented”. After a few days, I just flat told him to knock it off. I wanted no part in it, and if he couldn’t control himself, we would just need to go our separate ways at the end of the workday. So, now with the election less than a month away, he is totally buying into the rigged claims. He has stocked up on ammunition, although he won’t say why other than he is afraid HC will cut off supplies. But if there were armed protests in the streets, I could totally see him joining in. So…I’ve decided I can no longer overlook who he really is. He is a coworker, so I’ll still have a polite work demeanor with him, but I will not tolerate his behavior. At his heart, he is a racist. A misogynist. And someone willing to be ignorant. I have better friends to spend time with. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/50 "2016-10-18T15:52:50Z")
Honestly, I’m not surprised. Paint anything red (or blue!) and have it spout dog-whistle phrases and pander to the fears of rural people, and, presto! Propaganda WORKS. We’ve known this for a really long time. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/51 "2016-10-18T16:04:49Z")
Some people don’t pay that much attention. They pick their political positions with all the well-thought-out reasoning that people use to pick their sports teams, i.e., little to none at all (“I like their logo!”). They’re not necessarily bad people, and we’ve all been at that level - some of us just then go on to lead ourselves to believe that these things are more important than that. Plus, I don’t like Pence’s hair. Now Romney, there was a head of hair you could set your watch by! Or something. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/52 "2016-10-18T16:11:09Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Calling Trump supporters crazy xenophobic misogynistic racists may be true to varying degrees, it’s just not at all helpful. Why is his candidacy possible now? How can we change that? > > Answering those questions is far likelier to change the situation than ‘why are 40% of Americans so stupid?’ So 100% of Clinton supporters are high IQ super achievers and 100% of Trump supporters are so stupid? Ever seen who votes for each party? There is plenty of stupid to go around. The problem with people like SlackerInc and Der Trihs is that they think that the way they think ought to be universal. They think that the axioms they accept and the logic they apply is also universal. And that if a conclusion is different from their conclusion the root cause is EVIL11!!. It’s not that simple different people with different life experiences weigh and judge things differently. Calling them stupid, evil, bigoted, \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ist, is not going to help. Unless the desired goal is heated rhetoric and polarization to the point of eventual violence. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/53 "2016-10-18T16:11:45Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Missing adverb! And a critical one at that. But tip o’ the hat to you, for though we disagree on policy, I can empathize with your dismay at the ditching of even the civil pretense of principle. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/54 "2016-10-18T16:16:29Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > [Vox had an interesting think piece on exactly this question](http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/15/13286498/donald-trump-voters-race-economic-anxiety). Research shows that Trump resonates with voters for one reason, and one reason only: racism. Not because they’re economically left behind. > > The next problem becomes: how do you take racism seriously? And does racism make someone a bad person? > > The left says it does. The left sees racism as a deep moral failing, a character flaw, and also, as an intellectual mistake. That is a large part of the distaste for Trump and his voters. > > Trumps voters themselves see racism not as a moral failing, but as a very deep moral obligation. An obligation to protect their own in-group from hostile “others”. They think it is both irresponsible and naive to say or do otherwise. And they get angry at the disdain they feel from the left for this stance. > > The problem I see with this stance, is that the goalposts of who is the hostile other are emotional, and rooted in fear, not in fact. in the 80’ and 90’s, The “other” used to be an agressive urban black man you didn’t know personally if you lived in a rural place. Mid nineties it shifted to a Muslim terrorist, coming to the US under false pretenses. And since last month, it’s clown killers. > > The task ahead, IMHO, is to adress the fear of others and expanding the in-group. again IMHO, that can’t be done by screaming that message over media Trump voters don’t listen to anyway. It has to be done by taking away the economical advantages and incentives for fearmongering by media. Any media, be it by local talk radio, regular media, or social media. > > How that should be done is anyone’s guess. Suggestions are welcome. In the US it can’t be done. Nor should it. Rethink what you are suggesting. The greatest dangers/mass killers to ordinary people in the 20th century were their own governments. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/55 "2016-10-18T16:20:00Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So 100% of Clinton supporters are high IQ super achievers and 100% of Trump supporters are so stupid? Maybe part of the problem are people that deflect by making wild exaggerations instead of addressing real issues? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/56 "2016-10-18T16:23:26Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > In the US it can’t be done. Nor should it. Rethink what you are suggesting. The greatest dangers/mass killers to ordinary people in the 20th century were their own governments. The greatest dangers to ordinary black people (in terms of violence) for the first century of American history were from white people and local governments. This probably continued through the first half of the 20th century. This finally started to change with the civil rights movement, and ultimately (and thankfully) the federal government intervened to outlaw these brutal practices from state and local governments. In short, there’s a very good and rational reason that black Americans by and large distrust state and local governments, as well as informal practices (like the informal practices in sundown towns like [Vidor, TX](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidor,_Texas) that have kept it ~100% white through the present day), far more than the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/57 "2016-10-18T16:26:18Z")
The empathy tactic won’t work because the Trumpers will see it as condescending and insincere. The war tactic won’t work because the Trumpers will double down upon seeing evidence that their fears are justified. Go for the undecideds who wind up voting for the Libertarians because they can’t stand the major party candidates. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/58 "2016-10-18T16:40:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The greatest dangers to ordinary black people (in terms of violence) for the first century of American history were from white people and local governments. This probably continued through the first half of the 20th century. This finally started to change with the civil rights movement, and ultimately (and thankfully) the federal government intervened to outlaw these brutal practices from state and local governments. > > In short, there’s a very good and rational reason that black Americans by and large distrust state and local governments, as well as informal practices (like the informal practices in sundown towns like [Vidor, TX](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidor,_Texas) that have kept it ~100% white through the present day), far more than the federal government. That would be inaccurate extrapolated world wide for the 20th century. I know America is important and exceptional and all that but there is a larger world to draw important lessons from as well. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/59 "2016-10-18T16:40:51Z")
Octopus, I don’t understand your reaction. I said that it might be worthwhile to try to change media standards. Fear sells; and there is no sanction social, financial or otherwise, against fact-free fear mongering. The discussion is similar to when feminists tried to ban size zero models from catwalks andtried for more average models in magazines. Granted, that didn’t work either. But racist and sexist advertising, at least, are nowadays banned from mainstream media. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/60 "2016-10-18T16:43:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That would be inaccurate extrapolated world wide for the 20th century. I know America is important and exceptional and all that but there is a larger world to draw important lessons from as well. Since this is a Trump thread, I thought we were just talking about the US. If your point was about the whole world, then I don’t understand its relevance to this discussion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921.md?page=4)