# I'm SO sick of hearing "Trump voters are not bad people...we need to empathize with them". FUCK THAT **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 18, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921 "2016-10-18T04:00:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/121 "2016-10-18T21:26:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So that would be, what-20 to 40% of 40% of America, right? [Here is what was actually said about his die-hard followers](https://thinkprogress.org/is-hillary-clinton-right-about-trump-supporters-this-is-what-the-polling-data-says-2b37625a1df3#.17k9fp8i1) by her…and the horrible things said about her by Trump. Let’s say 60% turnout for presidential elections 75% of Americans are older than 18 Trump is currently polling at about 40% Not all of Trumps votes come from “Trump supporters”. Let’s say 40% of his votes come from die-hard Republicans, who will support any candidate with an R, (60% “Trump supporters”) So that gives us 60% \* 75% \* 40% \* 60% = 10.8% of Americans in the “deplorable” basket. About 15% of Americans have an IQ below 85, so this accounts for some. Some unknown percentage are unrepentant racists and complete bastards. So this 10% figure does not seem to unreasonable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/122 "2016-10-18T21:28:25Z")
> [@greenmario](#): > > **Euphonious Polemic** , from Clinton. “people who feel the government has let them down, the economy let them down, nobody cares about them.” She stressed that “[t]hose are people we have to understand and empathize with as well." I would have added: “Unless these people blame other races or recent immigrants for their problems. Then we need to educate them. And if they do not desire to be educated, then Fuck 'em.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/123 "2016-10-18T21:29:37Z")
> [@greenmario](#): > > Many posters in the thread including the OP won’t admit that there might be nuance in the reasons people support Trump besides that they are terrible people. Explain to me a 4th way. A nuanced way that a Trump voter could possibly support his candidacy at this point. Trump’s amazing policies? Anything? ---
**Author:** ![greenmario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/97f17d/32.png) [@greenmario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenmario)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/124 "2016-10-18T21:31:26Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I would have added: “Unless these people blame other races or recent immigrants for their problems. Then we need to educate them. And if they do not desire to be educated, then Fuck 'em.” Of course, its easier to dismiss someones concerns over their livelihood if you insinuate they are racist. Whatever helps you sleep at night. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/125 "2016-10-18T21:33:39Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Explain to me a 4th way. A nuanced way that a Trump voter could possibly support his candidacy at this point. Trump’s amazing policies? Anything? There are some accelerationists who support Trump because they think America needs a bizarre, shocking, unusual president like Trump to jolt it to its senses. They think America needs something bad to happen in order to see the light. There are even some Bernie supporters, AIUI, who support Trump because they want to teach the DNC a lesson, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/126 "2016-10-18T21:35:57Z")
> [@greenmario](#): > > Of course, its easier to dismiss someones concerns over their livelihood if you insinuate they are racist. Whatever helps you sleep at night. I’m not insinuating it. I’m stating plainly that many of Trump’s supporters are clearly, unambiguously racist pigs. Others are merely stupid, stupid people who have been sucked into the Trumpesphere because they are too dim to understand they are being lied to. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/127 "2016-10-18T21:39:30Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Do Trump supporters not realize that Trump ripped off people just like them? This lapse kind of baffles me, too. Clinton has a long record of public service and, sure, there were mistakes and corners cut and things she’d do better with hindsight, but Trump has NO public service, has actually cheated in his financial dealings, has actually misappropriated money given to him for _charity_, and somehow his supporters still think he’ll do right by America? Everything Trump has done, including this campaign, has been in service to his personal wealth and fame. If you could let him be president for a day, let him sit in the big-boy chair for a few hours, ride Air Force One and get a tour of the cockpit and talk about gladiator movies, let him push some red buttons and make missile-kaboom noises… would that satisfy him and make him go away? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/128 "2016-10-18T21:39:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I’m just not having it. **If you have an IQ over 80, and you still support Trump after all the widely publicized things he has said, you don’t have the right to be considered a good person.** You just don’t. We support Trump because we are far more concerned with Hillary’s felonies and lies than we are with something Trump said 10+ years ago that is being blown out of proportion because of frantic liberal desperation. In fact, if you have an IQ over 80 and you support Hillary, please stay home on election day, because you are too dumb to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/129 "2016-10-18T21:46:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > We support Trump because we are far more concerned with Hillary’s felonies and lies than we are with something Trump said 10+ years ago that is being blown out of proportion because of frantic liberal desperation. In fact, if you have an IQ over 80 and you support Hillary, please stay home on election day, because you are too dumb to vote. If you can ignore everything he has said _and_ done from then till now, it’s not your intelligence that is in question so much as it is your ethics and morals. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/130 "2016-10-18T21:57:18Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > We support Trump because we are far more concerned with Hillary’s felonies and lies than we are with something Trump said 10+ years ago that is being blown out of proportion because of frantic liberal desperation. In fact, if you have an IQ over 80 and you support Hillary, please stay home on election day, because you are too dumb to vote. Hillary was investigated and insufficient evidence was found for any criminal proceedings. Trump is on tape bragging about sexual assault. And Trump has lied far, far more than Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/131 "2016-10-18T21:57:40Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > We support Trump because we are far more concerned with Hillary’s felonies and lies than we are with something Trump said 10+ years ago that is being blown out of proportion because of frantic liberal desperation. In fact, if you have an IQ over 80 and you support Hillary, please stay home on election day, because you are too dumb to vote. Please grace us with your presence on November 9, when President Hillary’s victory speech is replayed over and over on all the networks ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/132 "2016-10-18T22:05:11Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > … Which is then blamed on members of another race… > > So ya… one step removed. If you misdiagnose the root cause of discontent proposed solutions will fail. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/133 "2016-10-18T22:07:06Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That all might be true. But the bigger danger is concentration of power in the hand of the state. Trying to prohibit certain speech or press is not the solution. Okay, I agree with your last sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/134 "2016-10-18T22:08:09Z")
This sentiment, “Trump voters are not bad people…we need to empathize with them,” is not one I have heard anywhere. Who is saying that? I’ve heard people attempt to understand the Trump voter, or explain their motives. But those people usually still conclude that the Trump voter is a fuckwit. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/135 "2016-10-18T22:09:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And his is the example you want to emulate? Ooooookay. > > Regards, > Shodan Thje candidate hasn’t. Except saying that the racist supporters are racist. I’m not considering what Trump supporters say outside of rallies, since to some extent Trump isn’t responsible for that. Unless he retweets their comments, that is. Not to mention that the Trumpist hate is about who people are and not just about the opinions they hold. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/136 "2016-10-18T22:20:48Z")
I am so glad the cavalry arrived. A lot of awesome and appropriately roasty-toasty posts since I last logged in. In the first few hours after my OP, it felt like I had accidentally wandered into Breitbart land somehow. > [@octopus](#): > > Exactly. Because people always respond favorably to ridicule. There has for some time been a kind of conventional wisdom that “shaming doesn’t work”. Several people have repeated it in this thread. But I have always questioned that, given that we are social animals and social proof is so important to us. So I was very glad to hear this NPR story about how this is changing, at least within the realm of public health (controversial examples in the US being breast-feeding and anti-obesity campaigns): > **[Who Is Responsible For That Pile Of Poop?](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/09/23/494916008/who-is-responsible-for-that-pile-of-poop)** > > To stop open defecation, a U.N.-affiliated group takes villagers on a "walk of shame." But critics raise questions about the ethics of this approach. > [@](#): > > The woman looks really embarrassed, and the whole thing feels kind of…icky. But, that’s exactly the point. > Devkota is practicing a behavior change strategy called Community Led Total Sanitation. CLTS was pioneered in Bangladesh in 2000 by Kamal Kar, an Indian-born agriculture and natural resources specialist, as a new way to combat open defecation; Bangladesh has since nearly eliminated the practice. The focus is on eliciting shame and disgust as motivation to improve sanitation. Critics question the ethics of a shaming approach, but proponents say it’s a promising strategy for a serious public health problem. And yes: several people have it exactly right. Make the hardcore Trump supporter toxic, and the fence-sitting center-right voter will be less likely to want to be associated with that camp. This has worked in the past. People like Strom Thurmond did not shift their rhetoric and voting records because of some true internal change of heart, but because their expressly racist and segregationist attitudes could no longer be expressed publicly without too much blowback. Forcing such politicians to use dogwhistles, instead of explicit racist appeals, does help move society forward because successive generations don’t even know to listen for the dogwhistles, and the old attitudes just dry up and blow away in the winds of change. > [@greenmario](#): > > I think you’re misunderstanding my beef. Go back and look at the OP, who clearly did not hear the second half of Clinton’s deplorable comment. I’m arguing that its unreasonable to generalize Trump supporters when the Democratic Candidate herself said that there is nuance in their concerns. > > **Euphonious Polemic** , from Clinton. “people who feel the government has let them down, the economy let them down, nobody cares about them.” She stressed that “[t]hose are people we have to understand and empathize with as well." Oh, I heard it. She is one of the center-left people I am complaining about in my OP! > [@Ravenman](#): > > Who, specifically, is saying this? I watch the news very closely, and I simply have not noticed liberal commentators saying “we need to empathize with the basket of deplorables.” I wanted to have some links as citations, but I couldn’t find any. I think it is mostly reporters and columnists on various podcasts and radio shows when they are discussing the election. But I promise you I have heard it many, many times. > [@octopus](#): > > The problem with people like SlackerInc and Der Trihs is that they think that the way they think ought to be universal. They think that the axioms they accept and the logic they apply is also universal. And that if a conclusion is different from their conclusion the root cause is EVIL11!!. I believe this is indeed the problem with **Der Trihs**. But I object to being categorized as in the same “basket”, if you will. I have actually had many arguments with liberal friends on this topic. For instance, I have argued that someone who is hardcore against abortion is not necessarily out to control/subjugate women, or prevent them from making their own healthcare choices. They may just believe that a fetus is a baby, and that protecting a baby’s life trumps those other concerns. Not inherently unreasonable. And on economics, there are people who really believe that a less regulated market with lower taxation gives an individual the greatest chance for success, and that it is not as important to level everyone out. I disagree with that philosophy, but I don’t think it is an _evil_ philosophy. Trump is a very different kettle of fish. Which, again, is why the National Review, and all living GOP presidential nominees except Dole, are against him. ETA: Bob Kerrey, on Bill Maher’s most recent show, is an example. Andrew Sullivan was sympathetic as well. If you don’t have HBO, the audio is available as a podcast. Bill pushed back against both of them, for which I was grateful. Of course he says most Americans are stupid and religion is idiotic, so his messaging probably won’t work for moderates. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/137 "2016-10-18T22:22:57Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > We support Trump because we are far more concerned with Hillary’s felonies and lies than we are with something Trump said 10+ years ago that is being blown out of proportion because of frantic liberal desperation. In fact, if you have an IQ over 80 and you support Hillary, please stay home on election day, because you are too dumb to vote. If he had just said that, he’d be morally reprehensible but only that. But the number of women who have come out and said he really did it - and there is evidence of them telling others about it when it occurred - shows he wasn’t lying about his actions. I hadn’t realized that even you thought being a sexual predator was just fine. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/138 "2016-10-18T22:27:16Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > This sentiment, “Trump voters are not bad people…we need to empathize with them,” is not one I have heard anywhere. Who is saying that? [Hillary Clinton](http://www.npr.org/2016/09/10/493427601/hillary-clintons-basket-of-deplorables-in-full-context-of-this-ugly-campaign) > [@](#): > > “But the other basket, the other basket, and I know because I see friends from all over America here. I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas, as well as you know New York and California. But that other basket of people who are people who feel that government has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they are just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/139 "2016-10-18T22:28:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If you misdiagnose the root cause of discontent proposed solutions will fail. Sometimes the people complaining need to be part of the solution. But they won’t do anything if they think that it would all get better or stay better if we build a wall or kept black kids out of the schools. It is not new - Nobel Laureate Dylan’s **Only a Pawn in Their Game** is about exactly this. ---
**Author:** ![greenmario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/97f17d/32.png) [@greenmario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenmario)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/140 "2016-10-18T23:04:53Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I am so glad the cavalry arrived. A lot of awesome and appropriately roasty-toasty posts since I last logged in. In the first few hours after my OP, it felt like I had accidentally wandered into Breitbart land somehow. > > [How Do You Stop Open Defecation? A U.N.-Affiliated Group Leads A 'Walk Of Shame' Past Piles Of Poop : Goats and Soda : NPR](http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/09/23/494916008/who-is-responsible-for-that-pile-of-poop) Interesting article with an even more interesting problem. Though, I think I still am against shaming because there is a difference between shaming someone for something “objectively” wrong, like pooping in the street, and the extremely complicated issue of say abortion. At least with abortion there are logical arguments that can be made to reach your position, and the issue is still at a standstill. However, its hard convincing people that there are Trump supporters who are concerned about the issues that you mentioned, like abortion and the economy. They would much rather chalk it up to racism and have that be the end of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921.md?page=8)