# I'm SO sick of hearing "Trump voters are not bad people...we need to empathize with them". FUCK THAT **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 18, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921 "2016-10-18T04:00:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/141 "2016-10-18T23:23:00Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > We support Trump because we are far more concerned with Hillary’s felonies and lies than we are with something Trump said 10+ years ago that is being blown out of proportion because of frantic liberal desperation. In fact, if you have an IQ over 80 and you support Hillary, please stay home on election day, because you are too dumb to vote. Ah, the fictitious “Hillary felony” crap again. Good people here have tried to educate you about how fucking stupid this is, but I see it did not stick. Sorry buddy. I put you in the basket of stupid, stupid people who have been sucked into the Trumpesphere because they are too dim to understand they are being lied to. You are being LIED TO. And you are too fucking stupid to understand that. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/142 "2016-10-18T23:28:18Z")
> [@greenmario](#): > > Interesting article with an even more interesting problem. Though, I think I still am against shaming because there is a difference between shaming someone for something “objectively” wrong, like pooping in the street, and the extremely complicated issue of say abortion. At least with abortion there are logical arguments that can be made to reach your position, and the issue is still at a standstill. > > However, its hard convincing people that there are Trump supporters who are concerned about the issues that you mentioned, like abortion and the economy. They would much rather chalk it up to racism and have that be the end of it. I think you may have misunderstood my post. I’m saying I don’t believe it’s “evil” to support more mainstream Republican candidates. But I’m not providing that warranty about those still supporting Trump, even after he has been shown to be someone who commits sexual violence. Even before that, so much of what he said was arguably beyond the pale, and notice that most of the Republicans I mentioned had already denounced him before the Access Hollywood tape came out; but this is IMO not even arguable at this point. I would add that although I certainly am on the side of making people use toilets rather than open defecation, I don’t know that you can quite call it an open-and-shut case of objective truth. There are hundreds of millions of South Asians still pooping outside (generally not in the street, I don’t think), and they [make arguments for the practice](https://sethavantika.wordpress.com/2015/02/16/sanitation-crisis-is-just-building-toilets-a-solution/) even if those arguments strike us as weak: > [@](#): > > “I can’t use a public toilet. We’ve always defecated in the open. It’s natural and a part of the environment”, says Chenappa, 58, resident of Ittarai village.[…] > Nitesh, a member of SNEHA, a NGO that works with the sole purpose of improving sanitation in the villages of Erode district, said, “These people think open defecation to be a part of their natural environment…Our aim is to teach them the benefits of using toilets. We want that every household should have at least one toilet and we have achieved 70% of our target in some villages”, he added. ETA: I thought it went without saying, but I’m starting to think maybe not: I never said, and am not saying, “You are a bad person _unless you vote for Hillary_”. I’m saying you’re a bad person _if you support Trump_. I would prefer everyone vote for Hillary, sure; but if you leave the presidential line blank or vote for Johnson or Stein or McMullin, I’m not talking about you. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/143 "2016-10-18T23:34:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There are some accelerationists who support Trump because they think America needs a bizarre, shocking, unusual president like Trump to jolt it to its senses. They think America needs something bad to happen in order to see the light. > There are even some Bernie supporters, AIUI, who support Trump because they want to teach the DNC a lesson, or something like that. Those seem like deplorable reasons to elect someone like Trump. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/144 "2016-10-19T00:04:36Z")
My Canadian sister passed on an [absolutely glorious piece](http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-how-does-donald-trump-still-have-supporters) from a Canadian paper, marvelling that Trump still has any supporters at all: > [@](#): > > The actual Republican nominee is a man who has shown himself unfit, not just for high office, but for any office; not just in his abilities as a leader, but in his qualities as a man; not just occasionally, but on every day of the campaign. He is not just deficient in this or that respect — knowledge, experience, judgment, tact, decency, integrity, leadership, policy — but utterly lacking in all. Donald Trump is not just the worst candidate for president ever nominated by a major party, he is very nearly the worst candidate it is possible to imagine, and was even before it was revealed he was a serial sexual predator. > > Yet here we are, three weeks from election day, and not only has Trump not been driven from the race, but two in five Americans tell pollsters — still, after all this — they will vote for him. He leads among whites, among men, among those over 40. This is a great takedown, a perfect illustration of my argument: there is no excuse for supporting this guy. However, the columnist still manages to at least partly fall into the trap of trying to understand his following rather than simply condemn them. In the end, though, he is right to conclude, after musing about trying to talk some sense into these people: “One might as well argue with the rain.” ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/145 "2016-10-19T00:49:38Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > We support Trump because we are far more concerned with Hillary’s felonies… What felonies, coward? Be specific. Provide respected, reliable and unbiased cites, not your own worthless and juvenile opinion, gutless coward. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/146 "2016-10-19T01:09:51Z")
“Predator, schmedator, my taxes are too high!” ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/147 "2016-10-19T01:27:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > There’s nothing wrong with the current political climate in America that can’t be fixed with more name-calling. > > Regards, > Shodan For fuck sake. I am now agreeing with Shodan, here. What a strange reality this election has brought us to. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/148 "2016-10-19T02:22:20Z")
I both agree with the OP and his detractors. I think there’s something to be said in that we need to stop weakening morality and acting like these people aren’t actually awful. But, that does not preclude the need to empathize with them and understand where they are coming from. The second we stop, we’ve become them. The OP himself has some “deplorable” qualities in him in how he treats the issue of Islam. A single issue voter with his view on Muslims would vote Trump. A part of what makes Trump deplorable is his bigotry towards Muslims. And I do hold that there is a small group of people that are just beyond redemption–unless through supernatural means of some sort. I actually assign Trump to this group. Maybe if he were younger, there might be a chance, but there’s not one now. Our main goal is to limit his influence. But I also know there are a lot more people who are not irredeemable, even if they currently are awful. I’ve seen too many people change. And I know too much about human nature to allow for any group of people to be put into a list of people who cannot be saved. I do think we need to continue hammering home how wrong what they do is. I think shunning is actually a part of how society works, and is not taking away their freedom of speech. To this day, I think a lot of why the issue of racism is so much better is that being racist has become a taboo. Same with sexist. And hopefully soon with homophobia and transphobia. And then bigotry against the mentally ill or whatever other minority group. Bigotry becomes the taboo. But I still say there can never, ever be a point where you lose all empathy. It’s one of the easiest things in the world to have–as long as you don’t let anger get in the way. And it so often is what saves people. Those people you write off will not be saved. And, if there are enough of them, they can form their own group: and that is the alt-right, a problem in quite a few countries and now our own. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/149 "2016-10-19T02:36:56Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If you misdiagnose the root cause of discontent proposed solutions will fail. Well, considering that Trump now is telling their followers to ignore the polls and that he does not believe in them, it follows that Trump is painfully showing what an incompetent he is. Again. Because he is missing a very important item that tells a politician where there is discontent and where he should concentrate to make bridges or to make efforts to get people to vote. I’m OK with that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/150 "2016-10-19T03:07:27Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It helps if we think of a Trump supporter as an angry business customer. Specifically, any of the angry customers described on [this](https://notalwaysright.com/) website. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/151 "2016-10-19T03:29:42Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Like calling Mexicans rapists. Let’s remember who started the name calling in this campaign. It wasn’t the Dems. It wasn’t the majority or Republican candidates. It was Trump. > Trump and his buddies are typical bullies. They can spit all over everyone, but if anyone fights back it is boo hoo hoo, they are mean to me, they are conspiring against me, they are _waa_ calling me names. What’s wrong with referring to rapists as rapists? Here’s the quote you are misinterpreting: > [@](#): > > Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. He’s saying that some of the people coming into the U.S. illegally are bringing drugs; some are bringing crime, some are rapists. It makes zero sense to say they he was implying that ALL Mexicans are rapists. Do you think they he was also saying that ALL Mexicans are bringing drugs? That ALL Mexicans are bringing crime? Your interpretation fails on two fronts. 1) He’s talking about subsets of Mexicans crossing the border, and he doesn’t try to say that ALL of them suffer from ALL the failings he mentions. 2) He certainly was not saying that ALL Mexicans are rapists. That’s just a forgive me, but a really dumb interpretation. He wasn’t calling the Mexicans who work for him rapists. He wasn’t calling the President of Mexico a rapist. He wasn’t calling—or even insulting that the law-anding school teachers, engineers, doctors, nurses, architects, small business owners, writers, pastry chefs, librarians, airplane pilots, cat mechanics, and millions of other Mexicans in Mexico City and elsewhere were rapists. No. That’s just ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/152 "2016-10-19T03:45:19Z")
Keep raping that chicken, magellan. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/153 "2016-10-19T03:51:58Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > We support Trump because we are far more concerned with Hillary’s felonies and lies than we are with something Trump said 10+ years ago that is being blown out of proportion because of frantic liberal desperation. In fact, if you have an IQ over 80 and you support Hillary, please stay home on election day, because you are too dumb to vote. Yeah! And Clinton killed a dude a while back! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/154 "2016-10-19T03:53:28Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > In fact, if you have an IQ over 80 and you support Hillary, please stay home on election day, because you are too dumb to vote. Cripes, **Clothahump** , even your insults don’t make any sense. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/155 "2016-10-19T03:58:16Z")
I don’t know (or, honestly, care all that much) whether Trump supporters are “redeemable”. I’m just assessing what they are right _now_, which is: not good. > [@Colibri](#): > > Cripes, **Clothahump** , even your insults don’t make any sense. Ha! That’s true. I just kind of skimmed over it the first time, but you’re right: it’s self-contradicting. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/156 "2016-10-19T04:00:04Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > He’s saying that some of the people coming into the U.S. illegally are bringing drugs; some are bringing crime, some are rapists. It makes zero sense to say they he was implying that ALL Mexicans are rapists. Do you think they he was also saying that ALL Mexicans are bringing drugs? That ALL Mexicans are bringing crime? Your interpretation fails on two fronts. 1) He’s talking about subsets of Mexicans crossing the border, and he doesn’t try to say that ALL of them suffer from ALL the failings he mentions. 2) He certainly was not saying that ALL Mexicans are rapists. That’s just a forgive me, but a really dumb interpretation. He wasn’t calling the Mexicans who work for him rapists. He wasn’t calling the President of Mexico a rapist. He wasn’t calling—or even insulting that the law-anding school teachers, engineers, doctors, nurses, architects, small business owners, writers, pastry chefs, librarians, airplane pilots, cat mechanics, and millions of other Mexicans in Mexico City and elsewhere were rapists. No. That’s just ridiculous. Well, A) he doesn’t refer to rapists as rapists. He refers to illegal immigrants as rapists. And that’s wrong because the vast majority of illegal immigrants are not, in fact, rapists. And B) he does, in fact, characterize Mexico as a whole in that quote, when he says, “Mexico sends its people,” which implicates Mexico, either as a political entity or as a people, as an active participant in the process of sending all these rapists and drug dealers to the US. Illegal immigration, he implies, isn’t just a problem of wealth inequalities and political instability. It’s an attack, and Mexico is the aggressor. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/157 "2016-10-19T04:13:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, A) he doesn’t refer to rapists as rapists. He refers to illegal immigrants as rapists. And that’s wrong because the vast majority of illegal immigrants are not, in fact, rapists. And B) he does, in fact, characterize Mexico as a whole in that quote, when he says, “Mexico sends its people,” which implicates Mexico, either as a political entity or as a people, as an active participant in the process of sending all these rapists and drug dealers to the US. Illegal immigration, he implies, isn’t just a problem of wealth inequalities and political instability. It’s an attack, and Mexico is the aggressor. He does. But if we’re going to be fair (not that he would be fair to us, of course), he is indeed implicating the Mexican government in supposedly pulling a Mariel boatlift type deal (I don’t think it’s contested that in that case, Castro emptied jails and asylums to get rid of people he didn’t want and give Uncle Sam the finger, two birds with one stone). But he’s not characterizing Mexicans generally as rapists and so on. He’s really implying that the ones who stay behind are mostly good people (as are “some” of those crossing the border, he “assumes”). ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/158 "2016-10-19T04:33:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. > > He’s saying that some of the people coming into the U.S. illegally are bringing drugs; some are bringing crime, some are rapists. It makes zero sense to say they he was implying that ALL Mexicans are rapists. Do you think they he was also saying that ALL Mexicans are bringing drugs? That ALL Mexicans are bringing crime?. Of course he’s not saying they are ALL raping and bringing in dope. He’s saying _ALMOST ALL_ of them are raping and bringing in dope. Plus, he assumes, a few good people. 5 or 6 % maybe? So, 94% raping dopers, at best. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/159 "2016-10-19T05:12:02Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Which is my point, it doesn’t matter what we say, they are too interested in that piece of shit to even notice us over here. You _miss_ the point. Honey and Vinegar _kill_ the flies. Shit helps them. Talk all you want. People act in _their own_ best interest. Not yours. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921/160 "2016-10-19T05:36:27Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > You _miss_ the point. > > Honey and Vinegar _kill_ the flies. Shit helps them. > > Talk all you want. People act in _their own_ best interest. Not yours. Believing the lies of a con artist is in _no one’s_ best interest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-sick-of-hearing-trump-voters-are-not-bad-people-we-need-to-empathize-with-them-fuck-that/768921.md?page=9)