# I'm so tired of stupid sportswriter condescension. (Indians, Red Sox) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 17, 2007, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046 "2007-10-17T15:38:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/41 "2007-10-18T12:44:04Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] I was reading in the 2007 edition of Baseball Prospectus that part of Fox’s most recent deal with MLB allows for longer breaks between half-innings in the postseason so that Fox can run more ads. My Google-fu hasn’t allowed me to find anything about this deal online, and i’d be interested to know whether (and by how much) the between-half-inning breaks are longer this year than they have been in the past. I’ll generally watch postseason games no matter who’s playing, but if there’s anything likely to drive even a keen follower like me away, it’s that sort of shit. [/QUOTE] Yes, they are allowed one more commercial between innings (and possibly for pitching changes). For me, I didn’t watch most of the Colorado/Arizona series because I was falling asleep. I can stay up past midnight when it’s my team (Cleveland) and when it’s the postseason (I don’t stay up during the regular season for west coast games). But I can’t stay up for a random postseason game that won’t end until 3. I just can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/42 "2007-10-18T12:52:14Z")
We have 24 hour sports radio, various ESPN channels, 30 minute pre-games and post games, websites and multiple newspaper articles every day on the playoffs. I don’t think the occasional story on the business side (ratings, etc.) prevents discussion of the game itself. Sometimes the business side is very important, since it can affect your enjoyment of the game. Me, I can barely make it through a full postseason game, once you get into the late innings, and start with making multiple pitching changes in an inning, I get sick of the downtime and switch to something else. The games take too long, they often start too late, the action drags to a crawl, is it a surprise that ratings take a hit? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/43 "2007-10-18T13:16:45Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] We have 24 hour sports radio, various ESPN channels, 30 minute pre-games and post games, websites and multiple newspaper articles every day on the playoffs. I don’t think the occasional story on the business side (ratings, etc.) prevents discussion of the game itself. Sometimes the business side is very important, since it can affect your enjoyment of the game. [/quote] Sure, but a journalist writing a proper, well-thought-out article on the business aspects of MLB’s television deal and the importance of postseason audience is quite different from a journalist dumping some context-free lamentation about team popularity into the middle of an article that’s supposed to be about the game and the series itself. I think’s that’s what annoyed the OP, and i get sick of it too. [QUOTE=Cheesesteak] Me, I can barely make it through a full postseason game, once you get into the late innings, and start with making multiple pitching changes in an inning, I get sick of the downtime and switch to something else. The games take too long, they often start too late, the action drags to a crawl, is it a surprise that ratings take a hit? [/QUOTE] Yep. And not just the ratings; also the fans at the game. With Fox’s extra between-half-innings time the people who pay to go to the game get to sit through longer baseball-free chunks of time, and they can’t even flick through the other stations to see what else is on. And, because the TV rights holders insist on having games in peak viewing time, they also have to sit there in very un-baseball-like weather. One of the guys on Baseball Prospectus complained last postseason about some of the bullshit baseball fans have to deal with, and it hit the mark, IMO: > [@](#): > > I do have a problem with the stated rationale, which is just untrue. From the Associated Press: > > ``` > Major League Baseball said Thursday that concerns about the weather Friday night in Detroit prompted the switch from the original start time of 8:19 p.m. > > ``` > > That, my friends, is most certainly not the case. The A’s and Tigers aren’t playing at 4:30 because it’s cold and, swear to God, snowy, in Detroit. They’re playing at 4:30 because Fox wants to show the New York team in prime time. That is the sole reason for the time change; the weather in Detroit provides a nice snowscreen, but MLB hasn’t been in the habit of moving up game times in the postseason for weather reasons in my lifetime, and they’re not starting now. If it hadn’t rained in New York Wednesday night, the A’s and Tigers would be playing a night game. Are we to believe that we’re going to see a series of earlier starts the rest of the month, that games will be rescheduled outside of prime time so that they can be played in weather 10-15 degrees warmer? Does anyone actually believe that’s the case, 19 years after the last World Series day game? > > The decision isn’t the problem. The problem is not telling the truth, which is blatantly obvious. Just come out and say that Fox wants to show the Mets and Cardinals at 8 p.m. It makes sense, it’s consistent with everything Fox has done for years, and it doesn’t insult my intelligence. > > If MLB is wondering why a segment of the baseball-loving public doesn’t really trust them, it’s because of stuff like this. We know that Fox runs the game in October, and the idea that MLB is setting game times is laughable. Fox is responsible for 2-0 games that run nearly three hours and 20 minutes of useless pregame content and production values that grate the nerves of anyone who actually might want to watch some playoff baseball. Fox also puts lots and lots of money into the game in return for the right to do these things. It’s a tradeoff. > > So instead of making up stuff about weather, just come out and tell the truth: the A’s and Tigers are playing early because Fox wants it that way. You’ll lose something you don’t have—the illusion of control—and you’ll gain a lot of respect among people who are just tired of being told that black is chartreuse, or green, or actually a camel. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/44 "2007-10-18T13:30:16Z")
And speaking of commercials, did you know that it is apparently October and that there is only one October per year (apparently that slut August lied to me about being October), that this is our country, that Frank Callendo has a new TV show coming out, that there is something known as Transformers, that I can solve all my problems with various drugs here in a couple decades when they’ve gone generic, and that product placement has gotten completely out of control when teams are willing to name players after consumer products (Coco Crisp, I’m looking at you.) ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/45 "2007-10-18T17:33:09Z")
[QUOTE=asterion] And speaking of commercials, did you know that it is apparently October and that there is only one October per year (apparently that slut August lied to me about being October), that this is our country, that Frank Callendo has a new TV show coming out, [/QUOTE] and that I am never ever going to watch Frank’s show. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/46 "2007-10-18T17:42:43Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] One of the guys on Baseball Prospectus complained last postseason about some of the bullshit baseball fans have to deal with, and it hit the mark, IMO: [/QUOTE] They were discussing some of this on the radio this morning…how MLB tried to get game two of the NLC series at 1:00 or so Arizona time so it would lead into the ALC game, which would be prime time for the east coast. Basically, the Diamondbacks managed to talk them out of it, but we still had to play game 1 at around 5:00 local time, in order to let the east coast watch a game between Colorado and Arizona. Lots of people simply stayed home - they didn’t sell out until game day - because the traffic and hassle to get to the ball park at 4:30, even if they could get off work, wasn’t worth it. So it was a win-lose for Arizona…if you don’t count the, you know, lose-lose-lose-lose. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/47 "2007-10-19T01:29:05Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] Sure, but a journalist writing a proper, well-thought-out article on the business aspects of MLB’s television deal and the importance of postseason audience is quite different from a journalist dumping some context-free lamentation about team popularity into the middle of an article that’s supposed to be about the game and the series itself. I think’s that’s what annoyed the OP, and i get sick of it too. [/QUOTE] Exactly. Examining pro sports as business is perfectly legit, but not for _sports_writers. There really is a difference between covering business and covering sports, even though there is some overlap. I want to read about the pitching matchups, the best hitters, coaching strategies, etc. What do TV ratings or the payrolls of either club have to do with who wins the series? Obviously they both have good enough players to get this far, whatever they pay them, so why not talk about THAT? I suspect most fans of either team feel the same way. **jsgoddess** , where are you at? I grew up in Holmes County, south of Wooster, though now I live in southeastern PA. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/48 "2007-10-19T01:49:54Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard] **jsgoddess** , where are you at? I grew up in Holmes County, south of Wooster, though now I live in southeastern PA. [/QUOTE] I live in Perry County, about 20 miles from Zanesville. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/49 "2007-10-19T07:42:40Z")
[QUOTE=T\_SQUARE] The thing about Notre Dame is that although a lot of people love them, a lot of folks hate them just as much. That means pretty good ratings I bet. No one really hates La Tech, that I know of. [/QUOTE] With Notre Dame’s 1-6 start, they are dangerously close to not qualifying for a BCS bowl. They better be careful… ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/50 "2007-10-19T23:34:47Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard] But that’s circular logic; people hate ND for the same thing that I mention. I know that’s why I hate them. How many games pitting an 0-5 team versus a 2-3 team get reported, or even broadcast? I mean, give me a fucking break! [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=HubZilla] With Notre Dame’s 1-6 start, they are dangerously close to not qualifying for a BCS bowl. They better be careful… [/QUOTE] I’m guessing you might like this [“promo.”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM9AZV90Wc4) As for whether discussing how a team’s small market will affect World Series ratings is a relevant topic for sportswriters, I have to disagree with the OP. However, in discussions about the health of MLB and its showcase event of the season–the World Series–there is an elephant in the room that is scarcely being addressed beyond comments about its tusks (i.e., TV ratings). That elephant is the fact that MLB is in steady decline as a popular sport in the U.S. and that the erosion of World Series ratings over the last few decades is proof of that. Having a big market team like the Yankees or Red Sox in the Series might cause a temporary spike in the ratings but, as seen in link provided by Justin\_Bailey, the general trend has been downward since 1980. And if you need more proof, look at the fact the NLCS was _on basic cable–not network TV_–this year. The baseball play-offs used to be such a ratings-grabber that the other networks rarely put new episodes of their shows against them because they knew they’d get killed in the Nielsons. Now, it’s apparently considered of such little importance beyond its niche audience that it’s banished to basic cable. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/51 "2007-10-19T23:48:17Z")
[QUOTE=NDP] That elephant is the fact that MLB is in steady decline as a popular sport in the U.S. and that the erosion of World Series ratings over the last few decades is proof of that. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > Major League Baseball set a new attendance record this year as ballparks around the league drew nearly 75 million fans. The official number from MLB’s press release is 74,915,268, which was a 2.6 percent increase over last year’s 73,022,969, also a previous record. On average, 30.970 fans went to each and every baseball game this season. From here: [http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/business-of-baseball-report21/](http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/business-of-baseball-report21/) ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/52 "2007-10-20T20:16:01Z")
Jsgoddess’ point is an excellent one. Measuring baseball’s popularity by the World Series TV ratings is a ludicrous way to measure the sport’s overall popularity. That’s the method used by NASCAR’s shills who claim that their ratings are higher than baseball’s, which conveniently overlooks the fact that major league baseball (to say nothing of minor league baseball) puts on 15 very well attended, and well viewed by local tv ratings, events in 15 locales just about every day for 6 months, in comparison to NASCAR’s 2 or 3 races per week over roughly 8 months. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/53 "2007-10-21T04:15:10Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard] Yes, the Red Sox made an amazing comeback from death’s door to win the World Series … THREE YEARS AGO. There’s a reason stuff like that happens about once every two decades. It won’t be happening this time, so you can shut up about THAT, too. [/QUOTE] Y’know, you had a pretty cogent pitting until you threw this in. [Looks like karma has a way of smacking hubris like that.](http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=AkPbpVIo5.irCvTiyL8WIl4T0bYF?gid=271020102) Care to wager on tomorrow’s game? ---
**Author:** ![Amazingrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8edcca/32.png) [@Amazingrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazingrace)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/54 "2007-10-21T04:59:51Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] One of the guys on Baseball Prospectus complained last postseason about some of the bullshit baseball fans have to deal with, and it hit the mark, IMO: [/QUOTE] I completely understand the logic behind the writer’s observation. It makes sense that you might manipulate the schedule in order to show the big-market team in primetime, BUT… I remember this incident, because I live in Michigan and was looking forward to watching the Tigers. I’ve gone to many a baseball game, and he conditions at that point (earlier in the day) were pretty terrible and were only going to get worse. If it were more borderline, I might buy the BP guy’s analysis. As the facts stood, I think it was a strech for him to draw that conclusion given the facts surrounding that particular incident. It seemed completely legit from my perspective that first pitch would be changed - a by-product was simply that the big-market team got the primetime spot. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/55 "2007-10-22T16:37:10Z")
I’m sorry **Fear Itself** , were you saying something about karma? I had a hard time hearing you over that wailing sound coming from a couple hundred miles to the west. ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/56 "2007-10-24T03:09:48Z")
Look, you are all missing the big picture, the real question: How will a Rockies-Bosox series affect Joe Torre’s relationship with the Yankees? And will they be able to keep Mo and A-rod? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046/57 "2007-10-24T15:22:47Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] So I guess Boston v. Colorado would be optimal from a network standpoint. Given the national prominence of the Red Sox, the team’s large native fanbase, the people-rooting-against-the-big-bad-famous-team factor, and the good story that is the 2007 Rockies, this could match 2001 and 2004, ratings-wise. [/QUOTE] Well, then it’s jackpot time for Major League Baseball! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-so-tired-of-stupid-sportswriter-condescension-indians-red-sox/423046.md?page=2)