# I'm sorry, but Zenster is a fuckwit. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2003, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669 "2003-05-16T13:20:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/101 "2003-05-18T18:33:49Z")
**light strand** , I think your point hits to a point I’ve seen repeated many times here at the SD. Some people see the Internet as _real life_, such as **Obfus**. Some people see it as _not the real world_. Try to keep that perspective in mind when railing against **Obfus** for “not getting it”. Maybe you just don’t “get” that point of view. I’m not siding here. I’m just saying. I personally see the Internet as no different from “the real world”. I’m the same person on here as I am in “real life”. I’m no braver or clever_er_ here. I’m just Shrew. You obviously don’t agree with me there, and that’s all right. ---
**Author:** ![Liz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/liz/32/17737_2.png) [@Liz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/102 "2003-05-18T18:36:21Z")
This thread is pointless and cruel. Now fucking stop it. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/103 "2003-05-18T21:01:34Z")
Whatever, **alohaaloha** said all that could be said anyway. I’m not out to make any enemies either (and I’m very uncomfortable with how this thread crosses lines… anybody gonna start skipping BAD occasions where I am present?), but **obfusciatrist** , why are you being such an asshole? Why are you so insistent that everyone in this thread acknowledge that your opinion on **Zenster** is the correct one? What do you have to gain? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/104 "2003-05-18T21:18:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by White Lightning \* > \*\ ***obfusciatrist** , … Why are you so insistent that everyone in this thread acknowledge that your opinion on **Zenster** is the correct one? What do you have to gain? \*\* Maybe he just loves irony. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/105 "2003-05-18T21:23:49Z")
I haven’t seen **obfusciatrist** insist that his opinion is correct. He just doesn’t acknowledge this “no-mentioning-of-real-life-meetings” barrier that has suddenly sprung up. And I don’t, either. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/106 "2003-05-18T22:03:43Z")
obfusciatrist very clearly says several times how he finds Zenster and says other people see Zenster differently and that’s great. He’s not saying his view of Zenster is the one right view anywhere. Just owning it as his own view. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/107 "2003-05-18T22:36:14Z")
I don’t either, **Snoop**. You of _all_ people should know just how I feel about this. **Primaflora** , I just don’t agree with you. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **obfusciatrist** _ (emphasis added) > I wouldn’t have brought up his real life personality, but people were already using it in the conversation. To essentially say “regardless of what I think of his online personality, I’m sure he is a peach of a guy in real life.” _I’m just assuring these people that this isn’t true_. He is pretty much the same guy. Sounds to me like he’s insisting that he’s right and others are wrong. Thanks for catching it **Haj**. Nice to know I’m not posting in vain. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/108 "2003-05-18T22:47:43Z")
I read that to mean that **obfusciatrist** was observing that **Zenster** is not one of those people whose online and real-life personas are terribly different. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/109 "2003-05-18T23:04:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snooooopy \* > \*\*I read that to mean that **obfusciatrist** was observing that **Zenster** is not one of those people whose online and real-life personas are terribly different. \*\* hm. I also got the impression that he was offering up his own personal experience w/him IRL as the definitive thing, that others who thought he was nice or whatever were simply wrong. I’ve never met him IRL, have had minimal contact off the board and (again) see him as a loyal, passionate person, who feels strongly about stuff, responds reasonably when addresses reasonably, responds fiercely when he perceives himself as being attacked. IOW, like about 90% of other posters here. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/110 "2003-05-18T23:25:16Z")
I read it to mean that obfuscatrist found Zenster to be the same person on the boards and in real life, not that his view was the only right one. Not gonna argue interpretations here though. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/111 "2003-05-18T23:42:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Primaflora \* > \*\*obfusciatrist very clearly says several times how he finds Zenster and says other people see Zenster differently and that’s great. He’s not saying his view of Zenster is the one right view anywhere. Just owning it as his own view. \*\* Yes, but he also (IMO) put words into **lieu** ’s mouth, and **wring** ’s. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/112 "2003-05-19T01:34:21Z")
When I said: > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t have brought up his real life personality, but people were already using it in the conversation. To essentially say “regardless of what I think of his online personality, I’m sure he is a peach of a guy in real life.” I’m just assuring these people that this isn’t true. He is pretty much the same guy. you left out the important part of the paragraph. Why was that? The end of the paragraph was “If you like that, great. If you don’t, great.” I meant that regardless of whether you think it a good thing or a bad thing, his online and real life personalities are the same. I also have said in this thread: “I’m sure others meet him and think he is the bee’s knees; and I’m fine with that.” as well as “As if, whether we like or dislike Zenster is a subject for rational objective debate, where the best argued (under fair conditions) side will win out in the end?” and “In fact, I just said above that whether you or I like someone isn’t a subject of argument.” Rilchiam, I said in the other thread that I was mistaken in my claim about lieu. I should have corrected it in this thread as well. However, when wring said: “Zenster is a deeply loyal, caring human being…” and “I think sometimes he vents here, so that IRL, he doesnt’ end up acting out poorly.” I take those to be statements about Zenster’s real world personality, and specifically states the position I am against (that there is something fundamentally different between the way Zenster behaves online and the way he behaves in person. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/113 "2003-05-19T01:38:58Z")
If I were to say the following: Some people think **obfusciatrist** is nice. In fact, he is not. If that’s okay with you, great. Am I saying that your likability is open to interpretation, or am I saying that people are free to like you despite the fact that you’re an asshole? FWIW, I agree entirely with the claim you say you are making. When I met **Zenster** he struck me as very much the same in person as he represents himself here on the board. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/114 "2003-05-19T02:04:21Z")
You’re saying that people are free to like me despite the fact that I’m an asshole. But you are inaccurately paraphrasing what I said to make the point you want to make. To be more accurate you’d have to say “Some people think obfusciatrist is nice. In fact, I don’t think he is. But if you disagree that is ok.” Again, I’ve not made any attempt to tell people what they should think of Zenster, just that they shouldn’t operate (in my experience) under the assumption that he is significantly different in real life than on the board. That was the first part, anyway. The second part what that I don’t think it is meaner to give my opinion of Zenster just because he posts here than it would be for me to give my opinion of some person that doesn’t post here. ---
**Author:** ![whistlepig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/73ab20/32.png) [@whistlepig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whistlepig)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/115 "2003-05-19T02:04:33Z")
I’m headed out to San Francisco next weekend. What I don’t know about San Francisco would just about fill the Grand Canyon. I started a couple of threads to find a kayak tour of the Bay and good restaraunt. Zenster replied with a couple of restaurant reccomendations. On another thread, he offered to show me around San Francisco and give me a tour of Berkely. Off-dope, we’ve been trying to figure out how to meet up so he can show me his town. Zenster has offered to be a good host to another doper. That’s one of there reasons why I am at the SDMB. Now, because of this thread, I’m thinking, “Does he talk too much? Does he realize that I’ve been to a good restaurant before?” Bah, bullshit. He offered to be a host. Good for him. If you come to my town, I’d be glad to show you around. I look forward to meeting Zenster. I’m glad that he stepped forward and offered to help a fellow Doper who’s visiting a new place. Whistlepig ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/116 "2003-05-19T02:08:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \* > \*\* > Rilchiam, I said in the other thread that I was mistaken in my claim about lieu. I should have corrected it in this thread as well. However, when wring said: > > “Zenster is a deeply loyal, caring human being…” and “I think sometimes he vents here, so that IRL, he doesnt’ end up acting out poorly.” > > I take those to be statements about Zenster’s real world personality, and specifically states the position I am against (that there is something fundamentally different between the way Zenster behaves online and the way he behaves in person. \*\* Okay. But _seeeeeeee_? This is a large part of the problem. It appears (and please correct me if I’m wrong) that you didn’t weigh **wring** ’s post carefully enough before submitting your own. We don’t any of us have enough time to really analyze each and every post someone has made. Furthermore, none of us have met each and every poster IRL. As such, it’s impossible to make a valid character assessment of **any** poster. And in this case, **obfus** , it was irresponsible of you to claim that **wring** was validating your opinion, based on one post that you apparently didn’t read carefully or place in context. No offense. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/117 "2003-05-19T02:10:48Z")
Great, and I truly hope that you two hit it off and become fast friends. I honestly am not looking to convince anybody of my view of Zenster. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/118 "2003-05-19T02:28:09Z")
I never claimed that wring validated my opinion. All I said was that wring had made a comment about Zenster’s real life personality. What wring said was actually opposed to my opinion (both in that he likes Zenster, and in his supposition that there are significant differences between real-life Zenster and online Zenster). ---
**Author:** ![whistlepig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/73ab20/32.png) [@whistlepig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whistlepig)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/119 "2003-05-19T02:38:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \* > \*\*I honestly am not looking to convince anybody of my view of Zenster. \*\* Yeah, that would explain your sixteen posts in this thread. 17 and counting? ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/120 "2003-05-19T02:51:59Z")
Look, I’ve never even offered reasons for why I don’t like Zenster. If I’m trying to convince others then I’m doing it piss poor job of it. Most of my posts in this thread have been in regards to whether it is worse to slag a doper than a non-doper. I’m still of the opinion that the ONLY people it is appropriate to slag on SDMB are other dopers. Others seem to feel that they are the only people who should be protected from such. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669.md?page=7)