# I'm sorry, but Zenster is a fuckwit.

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [May 16, 2003, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669 "2003-05-16T13:20:39Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 8

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**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/141 "2003-05-19T12:03:59Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by shrew \*  
> My one and only experience with him was on a recent thread discussing cutting in line. He was boorish, accusatory, and rude. Even when several people called him on it, he refused to acknowledge he had overreacted.
> 
> That said, I’m not sure that’s enough to call him a fuckwit. Rude perhaps, but I’ll reserve my judgment on fuckwit. I don’t happen to like him at the moment, but eh, I see no reason for him to care about that.

You are quite right about caring, now please cite some sample quotes from the BILT to back up your accusations.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Dead Badger \*  
> I think you’re confusing vixenation and voguevixen; this threw me for a second as well.
> 
> Regardless, it frankly boggles my mind that some people on this thread are willing to see offers of no-strings-attached help to people Zenster has never met as creepy or stalkerish just because it suits them, or fits some words that they’ve read on what’s a remarkably combative forum. What’s _wrong_ with you people? Isn’t it possible to dislike someone socially, yet acknowledge that they do some incredibly nice things?

I’d still like to see any possible confusion about this cleared up. As to your question, it seems as though some seek to fight ignorance with small minds. Go figure.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Waverly \*
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > _Originally posted by Kyla_  
> > I am curious to know why my comment is so much more egregious than obfusciatrist’s.
> 
> I don’t know if it necessarily is, but how does someone else’s venomous comment affect yours? As I said, your post was the one that struck me, and I’ve already hinted that I wasn’t going to spend a great deal of time pondering the subtle reasons for it.
> 
> You weren’t commenting on his board behavior, but his vary personality, and had not explained your reasons.

Thanks for noticing this, **Waverly**.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \*  
> **Zenster** ’s been helpful to me in the past, and had no reason to do it other than he just seems to enjoy doing it. I’m certain that he’s got his faults, but I’ve not seen him do anything on the boards that I’d say had gone above the pale of what many others here have done.

Fear not, **Tuck** , some types always feel obliged to treat me special. This ain’t the first time. Thank you for checking in.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jack Batty \*  
> I don’t know how much I feel like chipping in to a pile-on, so I’m really going to try to be fair in my comments.
> 
> **Kyla** is right. **Zenster** has a heart of gold, but is sometimes very hard to deal with. Now he did me a true solid. He took care of my dog for me for two months while I was living on a couch (another doper helped me out there: **zyzzyva** ) after my wife dumped me.
> 
> But he did kind of hold my feet to the fire over it a little bit. I tried to get down to San Jose to visit as often as I could. This entailed borrowing my soon-to-be ex-wife’s car and driving an hour and a half to get there. Invariably I was roped into driving him all over hell and gone and lugging shit around his shop. This was all fine with me. I wasn’t expecting to be put to work, but I was hardly in a position to complain. Tit for tat. It seemed like fair trade to me.
> 
> I really don’t want to make an enemy out of **Zenster** , but I can’t say that I haven’t been annoyed by him far more than I’ve been amused by him. It’s my own shortcomings that I only ever stood there with a sappy smile on my face and didn’t speak my mind at the time.
> 
> We all have our faults.

Make a comedy music video that is still funny and pertinent over twenty years later and then I’ll talk with you about Nesmith.

Yes, it was great that you helped me that one day at the shop. Yes, I did want you to visit your animal regularly so that it wouldn’t get too neurotic about being abandoned. One of these days I’ll even get around to patching the claw marks she dug into my back door. I searched for but could not find the thread where you were whinging about the world’s state of affairs. I gently chided you without specifying you by name and you got extremely hostile with me.

Try to remember the only thing I ever directly asked you to do in repayment for months of boarding your pet. I requested that you please help me move things down into the basement for my then upcoming remodel. That was all I ever asked of you, nothing else. Once you picked up your animal, I basically never heard from you again.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by fessie \*  
> I was thinking about going to a Doper gathering and meeting some people face-to-face but now I’m really glad I didn’t - otherwise next time someone found me annoying or _gasp_ disagreed w/something I said, they’d have tons of material to work with. And post publicly for 35,000 people to read. Whoo-hooo, character assassination, isn’t this fun.
> 
> Somehow instead of being a better conversation than IRL, as I thought threads were supposed to be, it’s twice as bad.

Since well behaved women rarely make history, you sound like someone who would be fun to know.

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**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/142 "2003-05-19T12:14:07Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \*  
> I’m not here to make a judgement on **Zenster** ; I’m not in a position to do that. If he’s reading this, however, I would like to revisit the open-mic thread.
> 
> He and I went back and forth for a few posts about what he should/could do for nourishment after one of the open-mic shows. I already understood that he can’t eat until after he performs, because he plays a wind instrument, and one of my suggestions, that he hit a late-night diner with the other performers, was not feasable. The other three: a) make something at home, like a frozen pizza, b) get takeout on the way home, and c) bring his own sandwich, didn’t get a direct response.
> 
> Then the war started, and I abandoned the thread without asking the crucial question:
> 
> Were there _physical reasons_ why he couldn’t do any of those three things? Or was it purely a matter of principle?

A direct response is that I basically close the show and once that is done I’d rather go home and relax than hang around that café to eat something that’s sitting for three hours. I know this will sound snobbish, but I’ve never had a frozen pizza in my house in my entire life. Yeah, takeaway is a solution and another stop on the way home as well. I hope that helps.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by SkipMagic \*  
> My only suggestion for this thread is that those who have met **Zenster** in real life and hold negative views about him should probably think twice about posting them, as **fessie** said, in public view of 35,000 gawkers. (Or, really, however many actually show up to the boards on any type of regularity.)
> 
> I see this becoming quite a hurtful train wreck with just the opinions held about **Zenster** ’s history of posts. But once people start contributing negative anecdotes abour real life meetings, this thread stands to become more of a cosmic fuck-up than it does a train wreck.
> 
> And yeah, I understand that if some people are allowed to post about the positive meetings with **Zenster** outside the boards, then others ought to be able to counter with the bad. To give a fair and balanced view an’ all. I definitely understand that, but I don’t think it’s a good idea. I mean, with posts, it’s easy enough for others to see what he said and judge for themselves; it even gives **Zenster** a chance to defend himself with evidence presented. However, anecdotal evidence doesn’t exactly give birth to a level playing field (because, generally speaking, the only two people with _any_ authority of which to speak on the encounter are **Zenster** and whomever regaled us with the memory–all others expressing opinions about said encounter(s) will just be jumping in on the bandwagon of assumptions, because they weren’t there originally).
> 
> I’d just hate for this to be another chance for a lot of hateful comments to be lobbed in by a bunch of drive-by visits.
> 
> As always, YMMV.

I have called in a qualified and objective observer of my conduct. And yes, quite the spectacular trainwreck, is it not?

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jack Batty \*  
> For the record, I count posting on SDMB as a social situation every bit as much as I consider a BBQ a social situation.

I pretty much feel the same need for continuity of character. I just try to save my vitriol for really craptacular cases.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by andros \*  
> Oddly, I wouldn’t spend any time at a barbecue talking shit about someone else at the same shindig.
> 
> YMOV.

I _thought_ that sounded like my irony meter exploding. I’d better go check.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Kyla \*  
> I regret posting to this thread.
> 
> For some reason, the Doper community seems to be awash in political bullshit at the moment. People are acting like assholes in chat, bitching about other people in locked LiveJournal posts, whining about how this person said this mean thing at ChiDope, etc. I feel that my statements in this thread have only exacerbated this, and I apologize.
> 
> In short, everyone, let’s all get a grip. Including me.
> 
> Om.

Whatever your apology is supposed to mean now, I suppose I’ll accept it. Thanks again for sharing.

> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by DocCathode \*  
> If I understand the arguments of the Zenster-is-a-f_ckw\*t crowd: he monopolizes conversations; thinks his favorite food, music, Smurf, etc are the best and that all people should think so; he has a short fuse; he sometimes won’t admit he’s wrong.
> 
> Oh, the horror.
> 
> ```
> Zenster is a human being. He's entitled to his share of human failings. 
> 
> ```
> 
> Again, not only did he offer me help, he offered it privately. If he’s the egomaniac some posters describe, why didn’t he make the offer in a post? That would’ve given him a chance to put on a show of being the powerful selfless man helping a poor unfortunate. Instead, he offered help to me quietly.

Fortunately, many people seem entirely able to overlook that glaring fault of mine. Thanks, **Doc**.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \*  
> Thank you, Kyla, for your apology. What you posted was very hurtful, especially if reading your post would have been the first time Zenster discovered what you think of him.
> 
> I’m glad you saw the error of your actions _and_ took the extra step to post to that effect.

Just for the record, **JuanitaTech** , that _was_ the first time **Kyla** has ever made her impressions known to me. However, I may have missed a post to that effect in some other thread I never read.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Heloise \*  
> I don’t know **Zenster** in person. But, some of you have and have really nice things to say and others have really bad things to say. He sounds… human. Not monstrous, not angelic, but like a pretty average guy.

Thank you, it works for me.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by shrew \*  
> I agree, **heloise**. My online experiences with him aside, I still think he sounds at the worst, human.
> 
> To respond to **Arden Ranger’s** curiosity as to why some would find **Zenster** ’s gifts creepy, I have to admit I would find that creepy as well. If a poster I had never met and I had no real internet connection with, suddenly bought me or my family expensive gifts with no expectation of recompense, I would find that odd. I find that gifts of that nature often come with expectations or strings attached. I trust you, **Arden Ranger** , however, to have a grasp on what is kind and what is creepy. When you say he did it out of the milk of human kindness, I believe you.

I pity the loss of innocence you’ve undergone. How sterile a suspect world must be. I cannot imagine such a thing and refuse to. Just for the record:

1. The whole gift box cashed in at around sixty dollars. I can make that much by break time.

2. The CD player was a thirty-dollar Circuit City special.

3. You bet I included some gifts for the little boy as well. Him getting some presents made sure his good-hearted sister could enjoy her own without interruption.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Arden Ranger \*  
> If there were strings, I have yet to see them. He has been nothing but nice to me since then.
> 
> He wasn’t the only one that stepped up when they heard how truly bad things had gotten around here. Scotti sent gifts to both my kids for Christmas last year and I didn’t know her any better than I did Zenster and I think Scotti is about as far from creepy as anyone can get

[waves hand through air above and below thread]

Nope. No strings attached. Never were any.

Being compared with **Scotti** is far too kind.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Ferret Herder \*  
> We have a lot of “creepy” folks who helped out **Polycarp** during his recent financial troubles, then.

And I am miffed at myself for missing the opportunity. I had a spare computer in my basement the entire time. Fully loaded and ready to go.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by shrew \*  
> **Arden Ranger** , I think that’s fantastic that people showed you such wonderful kindness, and your vouch for him speaks loudly to me.
> 
> **Ferret Herder** , read my post more carefully. I trust **Arden Ranger’s** judgment, but as a teacher I’m constantly dealing with teenage girls who come to me with, “Miss, look at this necklace my thirty year old friend bought me…no, I don’t think he expects anything in return…” And the shit hits the fan from there. There’s nothing wrong with a healthy dose of skepticism, but if **Arden Ranger** says it was cool, then it was cool.

Thank you for clarifying.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by TVeblen \*  
> I’m about a hair’s breadth away from a cynic as anyone can get but seems to me there’s severe cognitive dissonance goin’ on between substance, appearance and conveniently distant board drivel.
> 
> Do I “know” **Zenster**? Never met him face to face, wouldn’t know him if I tripped over his feet. Haven’t always agreed w/ what he’s posted but he’s been a gent about it. Sometimes it’s taken a bit of back-and-forth to reach equilibrium but so it goes. I’m usually pretty veiled about what’s bothering me but **Zenster** has noticed and written me privately, just for good wishes. Nothing more, nothing oogy or or persistent, just _offered_.
> 
> On the grand scale of communication, IMO this rant rates a nod, nothing more or less, not dissection. Style doesn’t equal substance. Get a grip.
> 
> All in favor of slack,  
> Veb

Thank you, **Veb**. It’s why I always check with you first. You deserve it.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/143 "2003-05-19T12:18:19Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Marconi & Schmeese \*  
> Jesus Christ, everyone lay off. Zenster sounds just like my father and I’m sure he’s a great guy. This has gone way too far. Please chill out. ☹

The day I figured out the first six letters of my name spelled “Christ” I knew it was going to be nothing but trouble. Remember, some people get so chilled that they’re just plain cold.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> As one of those who don’t care for the guy, I just want to say “of course he’s human.” I don’t think anybody is trying to say he is evil incarnate.
> 
> He’s just someone, where once exposed to him in person, we prefer it not happen again. He and I have had at it before, and I didn’t like him before meeting him (based purely on his board personality), liked him less after meeting him.
> 
> That said, he is a nice guy. As far as I can tell, he is sincere and means well. I’m sure others meet him and think he is the bee’s knees; and I’m fine with that.
> 
> I wouldn’t call him a fuckwit, but in my opinion he does suck the air out of any room (or thread) in which he’s found.
> 
> I’ve also seen way too much of his underwear for my tastes.

As I mentioned in **Stoid** ’s appreciation thread where you crapped on the carpet in your usual style;

You deserve yourself in spades.

Waking up in your brain would send me scrambling for the nearest straight razor.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by RexDart \*  
> **Tony Barber** , if you’re going to link to another posters activity that caused you to rant, please don’t just link to the threads. It works better if you include the post id in the link, so the link goes straight to the offending post, that way we can see exactly what activity in the thread drew your ire. And some of us don’t really think it’s worth the effort to scan through the entire thread. You’re the Pitter, it’s your case to build, you need to make it easy for us to see what set you off.

And thus a lame rant is born.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \*  
> Wow. I’ve seen some of the meanest posts I’ve ever read on the SDMB in this thread.
> 
> That makes me really sad. ☹

Thanks, **alice**. It’s beyond me why people are that way.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Athena \*  
> I tend to agree with the OP on Zenster. I’ve come to dread most cooking threads because I know he’ll be there with his assumption that he’s the only person on the boards who has ever cooked anything other than a can of beans. I’d even venture to guess that there’s more than a few people on the SDMB that know more about certain aspects of cooking than Zenster does, but my impression of him is that he’d never acknowledge it.
> 
> I do hesitate to post here, though, because I don’t know him in real life, and he may be the nicest guy I’ve ever met. But it just doesn’t come through on the boards, IMO.

Try reading my comments to other cooks in the original [Recipe Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=170210). Come back and let us know if your opinion changes.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> Oh, that’s simply not so. Many, many things have been said that are much meaner, vile, hateful, insipid, personal, and questionable.
> 
> Most of you suffer under the strange illusion, though, that a statement is somehow less those things if the subject isn’t a Doper. The things said in this thread would be no less mean or nice if they were about Tony neighbor.

Maybe not to her, Brutus.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \*  
> This is awful.
> 
> Bitch about someone based on what they do on the boards. Don’t bitch about them based on what you know about them IRL. There’s something … very distasteful about that. We haven’t met him, some of the rest of you have. We can’t dispute what you’ve said about him IRL, and we feel somewhat at a disadvantage because of that.
> 
> You’ve divulged, well, while not quite “private” stuff about him, I’d say it is stuff that I didn’t really want to know, or need to know. Heavens–why should any of us want to attend a Dopefest, if we have to worry about the other Dopers spilling the beans about our personalities, our frailties, and whatnot? Yeesh!
> 
> Let me make up my own mind about Zenster, based on his behavior on this board. If I ever meet in IRL (and I may, on one of my many pilgrimages back to Calif.) I will make up my own mind about what he’s like IRL. So far, I like him on this board. He’s a bit hot-headed sometimes, but not so out of the ordinary. He’s A-OK in my book.
> 
> Ewww. This thread leaves me with an icky feeling.

Very icky, but then again, I guess some people _like_ icky.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> Fair enough. I hereby call on everybody to stop saying nice things about people after Dopefests as well.
> 
> Let me make up my mind based solely on board personalities.
> 
> But if it makes things any better, I’m not saying he is any different in real life than on the boards. If you like him on the board, then I’m sure you’ll like him in real life. I didn’t like him on the board and was saddened to find that he is exactly the same in real life. He is one of the few people I’ve ever met who is exactly as they present themselves online.

This guy’s a regular King Solomon.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \*  
> So far, no-one has answered this very important question. 😉
> 
> Tony Barber is a former quiz show host. Brief (out-of-date) CV and photo:
> 
> [MarksonSparks! Online](http://www.marksonsparks.com/online/personalities/barber_tony.htm)

Thank you.

And thank you so much, **Aloha Aloha**. I feel privleged to be your friend.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by kambuckta \*  
> Thanks Deborah, but I think **Zenster** , whatever his shortcomings, will come out of this thread the better person anyway. The behaviour of some of the posters here has been nothing short of fucking reprehensible, and I have never felt so humiliated-by-proxy as on reading it.
> 
> May they NEVER put a foot wrong, anywhere or anytime that might see their antics being regaled on a messageboard.
> 
> Take care, and tell **Zenster** that he is always welcome here.

Thank you, **kambuckta**.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/144 "2003-05-19T12:22:27Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> Since I assume I am one of “they,” let me just say that anybody is free to regale any message with anything about me they wish.
> 
> I assume there are many people who don’t care for me, for many reasons, and it doesn’t bother me if they’re shared.

You’ve already made it abundantly [clear](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1567333#post1567333) as to what sort of specimen you are. Even posters who deal with humanity’s dregs were revolted by your attitude.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Snooooopy \*  
> **obfusciatrist** is kind of a pill. But also entertaining!

This from someone who views televised sports as serious entertainment. Your mileage may vary.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Waverly \*
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> > Most of you suffer under the strange illusion, though, that a statement is somehow less those things if the subject isn’t a Doper. The things said in this thread would be no less mean or nice if they were about Tony neighbor.
> 
> You are correct only so far as the severity of the statements themselves goes. The net effect is much different. The pitted non-member is unlikely to ever have to see the vitriol aimed at them, and more importantly, it isn’t coming from people they regularly interact with nor does it take place somewhere they enjoy spending time.

The subject of your argument is immune to reason. You may not wish to waste your breath.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> Yes, it may be more inappropriate. It may be more likely to hurt someone’s feeling, but I’d hardly say it is meaner.
> 
> If I say that my sister is a whorish cow lacking even the intelligence of a moderately-sized rock, is it any less mean simply because I know she won’t find out I said it?
> 
> I would suggest that it is also equally inappropriate to say such things, even here. But it is easier for us all to enjoy the ranting of others when we can presume ourselves safe from being the target.
> 
> “Tee hee,” we can say, “he called some stranger an asshat worthy of torture and possible death. But ack! This one says he doesn’t like a Doper! Civilization is surely crumbling when such inhumanity to our fellow man can be evidenced.”

Your civility crumbled long ago, if ever it existed in the first place.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Narrad \*  
> \*\*Yes.
> 
> I’m honestly puzzled that an adult person finds this difficult to understand.
> 
> Some of the things said in this thread appall me. I fail to comprehend how people can callously insult a man they have actually met in front of tens of thousands of others, some of whom have also met the man.
> 
> For shame.

There you go, using such heavily loaded terms as “adult.” You should know better than that.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Waverly \*  
> I think it may be worthy of more discussion, but not with the side effect of keep this thread alive. May I suggest we continue any dialogue [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=184808)?

Thank you for your consideration.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by shrew \*  
> Like when he quoted me and then stuck in a [sic] to point out I’d forgotten the space between per and se in _per se_.
> 
> Oh, that Zenster. Good times, those were. I wish I had 'em back.
> 
> And no, I’m not being sarcastic. I’m all for disagreeing in the Pit, but this thread just isn’t healthy.

Yeah, that single '[sic] made my entire day. I lay awake at night for weeks planning that one. Thanks for sharing.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by Narrad \*  
> > Yes.
> > 
> > I’m honestly puzzled that an adult person finds this difficult to understand.
> > 
> > Some of the things said in this thread appall me. I fail to comprehend how people can callously insult a man they have actually met in front of tens of thousands of others, some of whom have also met the man.
> > 
> > For shame.
> 
> But it is acceptable to callously insult a man I haven’t met, in front of tens of thousands of other people who have never met him either? That seems to be what people are saying should happen in the Pit.
> 
> I don’t like Zenster, this was reinforced by having met him, and yet it is out-of-bounds to say so? The response being that it isn’t fair to those who haven’t met him, since they can’t refute the “testimony”? As if, whether we like or dislike Zenster is a subject for rational objective debate, where the best argued (under fair conditions) side will win out in the end?
> 
> And I’ve already conceded that it may be more inappropriate to say these things where Zenster can read them, but it isn’t more mean.
> 
> Would you really prefer that un-callously insult someone? That I maybe take joy in it?

Perish the thought that you not insult anyone at all for a whopping fifteen minutes and see if your pitiful excuse for a life improves.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by fessie \*  
> How about this, **obfusciatrist** - your mother doesn’t love you. Oh, wait, no, it was that woman in the grocery story, she just went the other way, I’ve never seen her before, no idea who she is. No, hold on, it’s that girl you met in class, the one you chatted up a bit. Yeah, she thinks you’re a real asshole and it’s important enough that she’s going to tell a whole bunch of your friends. You’re not her taste.
> 
> Get it?
> 
> It’s one thing to disagree with a stance someone has taken on a subject, or to have a problem with the way they’re conducting an argument - those are behaviors.
> 
> And it’s one thing to make superficial cracks about someone using phrases like “asshat” - abrasive but entertaining and yet still vague.
> 
> And it’s one thing to pull up old posts and use them out of context to embarrass someone - tacky, but (usually) still within the game.
> 
> It’s another thing entirely to have met someone, to have broken bread and shared a moment - much less to have received a favor from them - and then to go around ranking not a specific issue, but the fact that you don’t like them. So fucking what. When you post an argument, that presupposes there’s another side to the issue.
> 
> It’s particularly distasteful to do it to someone who isn’t an indifferent yak, but clearly cares and makes an effort. Someone with real content who has made himself vulnerable by being real.
> 
> And yes, I cringe when reporters ask incredibly personal questions, and I don’t think 911 tapes should be played on television.
> 
> We should let this sick thread drop and go somewhere else to play.

Not until I’ve had my way with this little puppy. And thank you. Yes, I try to be real here. I know it paints a huge bull’s eye on my back for all the blade twisters, why should I care? People seem unable to distinguish that just because I _strive_ for perfection doesn’t, in fact, make me think I _am_ perfect.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/145 "2003-05-19T12:31:24Z")

</div>

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by porcupine \*  
> I think there’s a big difference between talking about people in a post DopeFest thread (what else is there to do, after all) and using personal interaction (both positive and negative) as ammunition in a pit thread. If I ever get pitted for something I did on the boards (and of course I should never be pitted for any other reason), I certainly hope people don’t start bringing their impressions of me at dopefests into the thread. After all, the Pit is for dealing with what (some) people feel is inappropriate board behavior - does the person’s off-board behavior somehow mitigate their assholishnish (or nor) here? I think not. Witness Joe\_Cool, who everyone said was so nice at DopeFests.

Yup, go figure. **obfusciatrist** is a regular paragon of virtue at the dopefests.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> I have done none of these things, so I fail to see their relevance.
> 
> I posted no argument. In fact, I just said above that whether you or I like someone _isn’t_ a subject of argument.
> 
> The people slagged in the Pit are rarely indifferent yaks. They are generally someone with real content who has made himself vulnerable by being real (yay psychobabble!). At least to the OP.
> 
> You are able to enjoy it, because the OP took something that had nothing to do with this board and decided to come bitch about them here. I still fail to see how the fact that the subject is a Doper ameliorates it or makes it worse.
> 
> Yay for your sensitivity. What does this have to do with anything?
> 
> All I was doing when I posted was responding to the several people who said “he’s probably quite the guy in real life.”
> 
> But again, if it helps any, I think that purely based on his board persona (which is exactly the same as his real life persona based on my meetings of him) he is a boor of incredible proportions.
> 
> Is that kosher?  
> porcupine, most of the people pitted are pitted for something that has nothing to do with their activity on the boards, for most of the are not active on the boards.
> 
> I wouldn’t have brought up his real life personality, but people were already using it in the conversation. To essentially say “regardless of what I think of his online personality, I’m sure he is a peach of a guy in real life.” I’m just assuring these people that this isn’t true. He is pretty much the same guy. If you like that, great. If you don’t, great.

Thanks for sharing.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> “I have done none of these things, so I fail to see their relevance.” should have been “I have done none of these, except C., so I fail to see their relevance.”

JFTR.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Earl Snake-Hips Tucker \*  
> Wondering if **Ukelele Ike** is planning to audition for the role of **Lurch** in some upcoming “Addams Family” movie.

HEY! I _said_, no cracking wise! This isn’t supposed to be enjoyable and you know it.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by porcupine \*  
> **obfus** , my comment was meant in the context of when specific dopers are pitted, such as this thread. Obviously non-dopers can only be discussed in terms of their off-board behavior, pit thread or no.

JFTR.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> Yes, I know. But I still fail to see why the off-board behavior of everybody in the world is fair game for the Pit. Except for Dopers.

There’s a lot you fail to see in life.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by light strand \*  
> obfusciatrist, are you really that dense, or are you just being contrary? Strangers are pitted because we don’t have a way of confronting them in real life. We pit friends and relatives because we can safely say what we want without hurting their feelings. We wouldn’t need to pit them if we felt comfortable insulting them to their face. It’s just a way of getting stuff off our chest while retaining a working relationship. What you’re doing is trashing a person’s reputation _in public_ to those who interact with him.
> 
> Moreover, you’re doing it based upon stuff for which he can’t defend himself. This is in direct conflict with when we pit a board member on what they post, as the OP is doing. Zenster could have simply wandered in and said, “I’m sorry if you find my posts abrasive, just don’t read them”. But how does one defend against your statement of “In real live you suck”? Also, “I just don’t like you in real life” is just plain cruel. It’s a piss-poor excuse for a rant, and it says more about you than him.
> 
> The most disturbing post here though is Jack Batty’s. Jack, I don’t have a dog in this this fight, but I feel compelled to say; you sir, are a jackass. I simply can not believe that you actually have the nerve to write such a malicious post. Remind me not to do you any favors.
> 
> I think (some of) you guys are vile. This thread certainly does not compel me to entertain the idea of joining a Dopefest any time soon.

Nice to see someone making sure that **Jack Batty** didn’t slip under radar with his back-handed compliment.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> No, I’m not that dense. You do have a way of confronting them in real life.
> 
> It is called talking.
> 
> I have no problem talking to people in real life. Whether it be to say nice things or not nice things. And that is why in my years here, I’ve never started a Pit thread about people who aren’t on this message board. Because I talk to those people in a venue where they can talk back. Apparently you all would prefer that I go to ANOTHER message board and talk trash about Zenster (I don’t think I am, but you all do). Because that would be less mean and more adult somehow. To me that is what I’d call high school.
> 
> And Zenster has the same defense in this case. He can wander in, and say “I’m sorry you find me sucky, don’t go places you know I’ll be.” (which is exactly what I do)
> 
> And it may be a piss-poor excuse for a rant, so it is a good thing I never ranted. The ranter in this thread was Tony, and he did exactly what you all are asking for: He bitched about the _postings_ of Zenster. I just gave my opinion when several people posted (Tony, lieu, wring) about his real life personality.
> 
> How is it cruel to say you don’t like someone. Do you honestly expect everybody to like you?

Thank you for making sure a “piss-poor excuse for a rant” instead, attained new levels of low behavior. We couldn’t have done it without you.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/146 "2003-05-19T12:43:51Z")

</div>

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by light strand \*  
> You sound just like a whiny eight year old…Mmmooooooomm, but she _did_ have a fat butt!. I can believe you are really so stupid that you don’t understand the difference between our on-line persona being attacked and a real life character assassination. However, I see you really just don’t get it, and I can’t help you understand. I’m just glad we’ve never met.
> 
> I’m just wondering. Does your mother get tired of helping your tie your shoes every morning? Laces are hard!

Be glad. Be very, very glad.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> Yes she does, but I eat her out every day as compensation.
> 
> You can’t have it both ways, either this is a community of real people or it is a community of fake personas. If we want it to be the former, then we can’t ignore the negatives or we have created the former (see the flirting threads where each doper is the sexiest creature since the last).

Stand back folks, he’s waxing eloquent!

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by shrew \*  
> Uh, ew. I hope you meant you _take her out to eat_.

And you thought I was bad. Guess what? He most likely meant it. Surprised?

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by shrew \*  
> **light strand** , I think your point hits to a point I’ve seen repeated many times here at the SD. Some people see the Internet as _real life_, such as **Obfus**. Some people see it as _not the real world_. Try to keep that perspective in mind when railing against **Obfus** for “not getting it”. Maybe you just don’t “get” that point of view. I’m not siding here. I’m just saying.
> 
> I personally see the Internet as no different from “the real world”. I’m the same person on here as I am in “real life”. I’m no braver or clever_er_ here. I’m just Shrew. You obviously don’t agree with me there, and that’s all right.

Just please try not to be _too_ **Shrew** ish. Mkay?

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by QueerGeekGirl \*  
> This thread is pointless and cruel.
> 
> Now fucking stop it.

Welcome to The Pit, Zenster style. Notice how well some people manage to bottle up and save their venom for that one special day?

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by White Lightning \*  
> Whatever, **alohaaloha** said all that could be said anyway.
> 
> I’m not out to make any enemies either (and I’m very uncomfortable with how this thread crosses lines… anybody gonna start skipping BAD occasions where I am present?), but **obfusciatrist** , why are you being such an asshole? Why are you so insistent that everyone in this thread acknowledge that your opinion on **Zenster** is the correct one? What do you have to gain?

Why does he? For the same reason that I give;

Because he can. No other reason, really. Just because he can. And he does, and you’ve all gotten a sterling glimpse inside his vacant husk.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by hajario \*
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > **obfusciatrist** , why are you being such an asshole? Why are you so insistent that everyone in this thread acknowledge that your opinion on **Zenster** is the correct one? What do you have to gain?
> 
> Maybe he just loves irony.
> 
> Haj

Now _that_ was good!

Dang! My irony meter just detonated again.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Snooooopy \*  
> I haven’t seen **obfusciatrist** insist that his opinion is correct. He just doesn’t acknowledge this “no-mentioning-of-real-life-meetings” barrier that has suddenly sprung up. And I don’t, either.

And I don’t either. I just have barriers about going out of my way to be downright nasty to people.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Primaflora \*  
> obfusciatrist very clearly says several times how he finds Zenster and says other people see Zenster differently and that’s great. He’s not saying his view of Zenster is the one right view anywhere. Just owning it as his own view.

Very clearly, and pretty snarkily too. How adorable!

[QUOTE]  
\*Originally posted by White Lightning \*  
I don’t either, **Snoop**. You of _all_ people should know just how I feel about this. **Primaflora** , I just don’t agree with you.

[quote]  
_Originally posted by obfusciatrist_  
… I wouldn’t have brought up his real life personality, but people were already using it in the conversation. To essentially say “regardless of what I think of his online personality, I’m sure he is a peach of a guy in real life.” I’m just assuring these people that this isn’t true. He is pretty much the same guy. If you like that, great. If you don’t, great.

> [@](#):
>
> Sounds to me like he’s insisting that he’s right and others are wrong.  
> Thanks for catching it **Haj**. Nice to know I’m not posting in vain. 😉

Yes, good catch.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Snooooopy \*  
> I read that to mean that **obfusciatrist** was observing that **Zenster** is not one of those people whose online and real-life personas are terribly different.

JFTR.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by wring \*  
> hm. I also got the impression that he was offering up his own personal experience w/him IRL as the definitive thing, that others who thought he was nice or whatever were simply wrong.
> 
> I’ve never met him IRL, have had minimal contact off the board and (again) see him as a loyal, passionate person, who feels strongly about stuff, responds reasonably when addresses reasonably, responds fiercely when he perceives himself as being attacked. IOW, like about 90% of other posters here.

WOW! Other posters like me, in this very forum? Who’d a thunk it.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Primaflora \*  
> I read it to mean that obfuscatrist found Zenster to be the same person on the boards and in real life, not that his view was the only right one.
> 
> Not gonna argue interpretations here though.

JFTR.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \*
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by Primaflora \*  
> > obfusciatrist very clearly says several times how he finds Zenster and says other people see Zenster differently and that’s great. He’s not saying his view of Zenster is the one right view anywhere. Just owning it as his own view.
> 
> Yes, but he also (IMO) put words into **lieu** ’s mouth, and **wring** ’s.

Thank you.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> When I said:
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Originally posted by obfusciatrist\*  
> > … I wouldn’t have brought up his real life personality, but people were already using it in the conversation. To essentially say “regardless of what I think of his online personality, I’m sure he is a peach of a guy in real life.” I’m just assuring these people that this isn’t true. He is pretty much the same guy. If you like that, great. If you don’t, great.
> 
> you left out the important part of the paragraph. Why was that? The end of the paragraph was “If you like that, great. If you don’t, great.”
> 
> I meant that regardless of whether you think it a good thing or a bad thing, his online and real life personalities are the same. I also have said in this thread: “I’m sure others meet him and think he is the bee’s knees; and I’m fine with that.” as well as “As if, whether we like or dislike Zenster is a subject for rational objective debate, where the best argued (under fair conditions) side will win out in the end?” and “In fact, I just said above that whether you or I like someone isn’t a subject of argument.”
> 
> Rilchiam, I said in the other thread that I was mistaken in my claim about lieu. I should have corrected it in this thread as well. However, when wring said:
> 
> “Zenster is a deeply loyal, caring human being…” and “I think sometimes he vents here, so that IRL, he doesnt’ end up acting out poorly.”
> 
> I take those to be statements about Zenster’s real world personality, and specifically states the position I am against (that there is something fundamentally different between the way Zenster behaves online and the way he behaves in person.

Now try to explain the huge gaping void between what you’ve said and what all these others have said about me.

> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by obfusciatrist_  
> You’re saying that people are free to like me despite the fact that I’m an asshole.
> 
> But you are inaccurately paraphrasing what I said to make the point you want to make. To be more accurate you’d have to say
> 
> “Some people think obfusciatrist is nice. In fact, I don’t think he is. But if you disagree that is ok.”
> 
> Again, I’ve not made any attempt to tell people what they should think of Zenster, just that they shouldn’t operate (in my experience) under the assumption that he is significantly different in real life than on the board.
> 
> That was the first part, anyway. The second part what that I don’t think it is meaner to give my opinion of Zenster just because he posts here than it would be for me to give my opinion of some person that doesn’t post here.

For someone who dislikes me so much, you sure do spend a lot of time around here.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by whistlepig \*  
> I’m headed out to San Francisco next weekend. What I don’t know about San Francisco would just about fill the Grand Canyon.
> 
> I started a couple of threads to find a kayak tour of the Bay and good restaraunt. Zenster replied with a couple of restaurant reccomendations. On another thread, he offered to show me around San Francisco and give me a tour of Berkely. Off-dope, we’ve been trying to figure out how to meet up so he can show me his town.
> 
> Zenster has offered to be a good host to another doper. That’s one of there reasons why I am at the SDMB.
> 
> Now, because of this thread, I’m thinking, “Does he talk too much? Does he realize that I’ve been to a good restaurant before?”
> 
> Bah, bullshit.
> 
> He offered to be a host. Good for him. If you come to my town, I’d be glad to show you around.
> 
> I look forward to meeting Zenster.  
> I’m glad that he stepped forward and offered to help a fellow Doper who’s visiting a new place.  
> Whistlepig

And I’m sure we’ll get along just fine.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \*
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > _Originally posted by obfusciatrist_  
> > Rilchiam, I said in the other thread that I was mistaken in my claim about lieu. I should have corrected it in this thread as well. However, when wring said:
> > 
> > “Zenster is a deeply loyal, caring human being…” and “I think sometimes he vents here, so that IRL, he doesnt’ end up acting out poorly.”
> > 
> > I take those to be statements about Zenster’s real world personality, and specifically states the position I am against (that there is something fundamentally different between the way Zenster behaves online and the way he behaves in person.
> 
> Okay. But _seeeeeeee_? This is a large part of the problem. It appears (and please correct me if I’m wrong) that you didn’t weigh **wring** ’s post carefully enough before submitting your own.
> 
> We don’t any of us have enough time to really analyze each and every post someone has made. Furthermore, none of us have met each and every poster IRL. As such, it’s impossible to make a valid character assessment of **any** poster. And in this case, **obfus** , it was irresponsible of you to claim that **wring** was validating your opinion, based on one post that you apparently didn’t read carefully or place in context.
> 
> No offense.

Thank you for sticking to the facts.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> Great, and I truly hope that you two hit it off and become fast friends. I honestly am not looking to convince anybody of my view of Zenster.

How many posts in this thread and counting was that **whistlepig**? What hypocritical horseshit!

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by whistlepig \*  
> Yeah, that would explain your sixteen posts in this thread.
> 
> 17 and counting?

Thank you.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> Look, I’ve never even offered reasons for why I don’t like Zenster. If I’m trying to convince others then I’m doing it piss poor job of it.
> 
> Most of my posts in this thread have been in regards to whether it is worse to slag a doper than a non-doper. I’m still of the opinion that the ONLY people it is appropriate to slag on SDMB are other dopers. Others seem to feel that they are the only people who should be protected from such.

Feel free to _slag_ off at any time.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by White Lightning \*
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> > … But you are inaccurately paraphrasing what I said to make the point you want to make. To be more accurate you’d have to say
> > 
> > “Some people think obfusciatrist is nice. In fact, I don’t think he is. But if you disagree that is ok.”
> 
> Except you didn’t say “think.” You said “this isn’t true.” I hear you saying that this sentence referred to his potentially dichotomous personality, not the actual appeal of his IRL personality. All I can say is that I (and evidently others as well) didn’t read it that way (‘you may think he’s a peach IRL. It’s not true.’ See where I’m getting it?). But there’s no point in me arguing with you over what you meant.
> 
> And again, I agree with everything else you’re saying. You say you don’t want to convince anyone of anything regarding **Zenster** , fine. I’ll let it go if you will.

Thanks **WL**.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Bad News Baboon \*  
> Zenster,
> 
> I haven’t really interacted with you other than in your dog thread.
> 
> You wrote me back, after the fact. I thought that was so thoughtful of you.
> 
> I am really saddened by this thread because I don’t think ANYONE here could escape unscathed if we were to be judged by every single one of our IRL actions.
> 
> I know I have had my bad days, and I would come out looking like the bitch of the year if every one piled on.
> 
> I think this thread speaks volumes and volumes about the people who have participated in it.

Volumes, indeed, **BNB**. Thank you for remembering, and thanks for your support when Zen was down.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> You’re again cutting it off. If you only apply the “it’s not true” to the second half of the preceding sentence then it means what you thought. If you apply it to the whole preceding sentence, then it isn’t contradicting the “peach” idea, but the idea that his online personality can be viewed as distinct from his real life personality.
> 
> But I will also admit that I frequently get into trouble because I don’t think it is necessary to precede the obviously subjective with the phrase “I think” or “In my opinion”.
> 
> “I don’t like Zenster”  
> “_Daddy Day Care_ is a bad movie.”
> 
> Both are obviously subjective determinations, both are obviously just my opinions. It gets tedious to constantly label obvious opinion as such.
> 
> And I don’t want to convince anybody whether they should like Zenster. I do want to convince people that his online and offline personalities are essentially the same, and that those who like his online personality will probably like him in real life and those who don’t like his online personality probably won’t like him in real life.
> 
> But I can let it go as well; the weekend is almost over. So, with this, I bid you all adieu. It’s been fun.

Your definition of “fun” seems quite at variance with that of numerous other posters here. I’m so glad they could all get your measure.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by whistlepig \*
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by whistlepig \*  
> > Yeah, that would explain your sixteen posts in this thread.
> > 
> > 17 and counting?
> 
> 19 and 20 . . .

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by White Lightning \*  
> No, I know I was cutting it off that time. I wasn’t still arguing for my interpretation, just trying to show how I arrived at it. Sorry I didn’t make that clearer.
> 
> Have a good one.  
> On preview: **whistlepig** , leave him alone. I called him an asshole, does he not have the right to respond? Every single one of the last 5 or 6 have included him saying “I don’t want to convince anybody whether they should like Zenster,” so lay off.

**White Lightning** , don’t be amazed if other people here have had their fill and find it necessary to vent. Thank you for weighing in too.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by whistlepig \*
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by White Lightning \*  
> > On preview: **whistlepig** , leave him alone. I called him an asshole, does he not have the right to respond?
> 
> Yep, me too.
> 
> 20 and counting.
> 
> What’s the point of this thread anymore?
> 
> Whistlepig

You just made another excellent point.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Troy McClure SF \*  
> OK, here’s the deal.
> 
> Next time we go to **Demo** - and **Psy** ’s, I’ll swing by Play It Again Sports and get one of those inflatable pools, then I’ll swing by Cala and buy out all the Jello pudding mix they have. We’ll set it all up in their backyard, and have a Jell-O Fight To Creamy Death! (Speaking of which, where’s **SeaDiver** …?)

The irony of this post goes beyond mere words. I am astounded.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \*  
> Are you in the right thread with that?

Great question.

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Troy McClure SF \*
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \*  
> > Are you in the right thread with that?
> 
> Yep… BADfests are often held at Demo and Psy’s place in Santa Rosa.

I find it extremely strange that **Demo** didn’t even bother to check in with the one interaction we had a few years ago. Maybe he’s too busy rereading the open-mic thread. Who knows?

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Doobieous \*  
> Yeah, that’s if you actually GET there. Last time i saw your ass was in Santa Cruz two years ago with Oldscratch! I ain’t seen you in forevah! 🙂

What? No deft sideswipe, **Doobieous**? You must be slipping.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/147 "2003-05-19T12:52:18Z")

</div>

That should have been:

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Zenster \*  
> … Do you have the nerve to insinuate that I might have something **[in common]** with other members of these boards?!?
> 
> What an outlandish notion! Who’d have thought?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/148 "2003-05-19T13:01:45Z")

</div>

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \*  
> That’s it in a nutshell for me.
> 
> God Forbid those of you who bitched about Zenster publicly on this board _tell_ him how you feel about him. I’d think that if your sentiments were important enough to tell, you’d tell _him_ first, and in private. Because that would show a certain amount of guts, decency, and good taste. But, I guess with some of you, it seemed better to go the gutless and tacky route, and air your feelings on a public message board.

Aw shucks, and I thought I was going to be able to slide that one on by.

Thanks, **yosemitebabe** , I’m glad to know we agree. Somehow, I seem to attract the sort of people that initially shrug off an incident only so they can let it fester until the precise right opportunity to be a total puss volcano about it.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/149 "2003-05-19T13:06:59Z")

</div>

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by calm kiwi \*  
> … I just hope Zenster (brilliant chef OR loudmouth) is feeling ok and is still wanting to come back after this thread …

Thanks for your concern, **calm kiwi**. I’m not going to let a couple of rectal cavities chase me offa my grubstake at these here boards.

PS: It’s “brilliant chef **and** loudmouth.”

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/150 "2003-05-19T13:07:11Z")

</div>

:eek: The moral of the story: Don’t pit Zenster unless you have the endurance to withstand an eighty-five-hundred word rebuttal.

Psst, Zen, I understand the urge to speak out, but the whole dignified silence thing was really working.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/151 "2003-05-19T13:26:55Z")

</div>

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Zenster \*  
> **A direct response is that I basically close the show and once that is done I’d rather go home and relax than hang around that café to eat something that’s sitting for three hours. I know this will sound snobbish, but I’ve never had a frozen pizza in my house in my entire life. Yeah, takeaway is a solution and another stop on the way home as well. I hope that helps.**

Okay then!

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/152 "2003-05-19T13:27:42Z")

</div>

I’d like to read your defense, **Zenster** , but I’ve just finished _War and Peace_ and don’t have the endurance for another mental marathon.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/153 "2003-05-19T13:31:14Z")

</div>

Oh, come on, people…Most of the bandwidth is taken up by quotes. If you were reading the thread all along, you can read **Zenster** ’s replies; you don’t have to re-read the quotes word-for-word.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/154 "2003-05-19T13:36:11Z")

</div>

jesus christ that was unnecessary.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/155 "2003-05-19T13:39:47Z")

</div>

Holeee crap, did Monday morning’s vanity search ever return a few hits!

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/156 "2003-05-19T13:45:27Z")

</div>

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Waverly \*  
> :eek: The moral of the story: Don’t pit Zenster unless you have the endurance to withstand an eighty-five-hundred word rebuttal.
> 
> Psst, Zen, I understand the urge to speak out, but the whole dignified silence thing was really working.

Sorry, but so many other posters had stepped up to bat for me that I was obliged to rebut in full. The evil that went down in this thread should serve as a strong lesson to any newbies about piling on in the Pit.

**obfusciatrist** , you have once again shown your true colors. I’m glad that a new crop of dopers got a peek under the hind leg of your twisted braincap. You are pathetic beyond words.

**Kyla** , while I shall make every attempt to accept your apology, it was essentially worthless to me. You felt totally free to smear me publically and ended up showing your real personality to all. Saying you’re sorry after openly venting such poisonous bile is like saying “oops” after lighting off a bomb in a crowded place. Read and memorize **yosemitebabe** ’s most recent post. Maybe you’ll get a clue some day.

**Snooooopy** and **Jack** , you’re a fine pair of ingrates. You can go back to holding hands with **obfusciatrist** , now.

To all who spoke up on my behalf, you have my eternal gratitude. Please check your SDMB email in the next few days.

Love,

Zenster

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/157 "2003-05-19T13:53:39Z")

</div>

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \*  
> \*\*I never claimed that wring validated my opinion. All I said was that wring had made a comment about Zenster’s real life personality.
> 
> What wring said was actually opposed to my opinion (both in that he likes Zenster, and in his supposition that there are significant differences between real-life Zenster and online Zenster). \*\*

A. I’m female (not that it makes a difference here, but I like to clear up misconceptions where they occur).

B. I have never met **Zenster** , did not claim to. I only know him through the boards and a brief series of emails where he contacted me w/questions on behalf of personal friends of his IRL, looking for my expertise in a particular area.

C. you misunderstood my post - I opined that it seemed to me that **Zenster** vented here about stuff that happened in his real life to avoid venting IRL, the main thrust of the post was that he appeared to me to have strong loyalties, that he was protective of friends and people he cared about, that he would react here strongly if he perceived himself to be attacked, that he would react less strongly if approached in a non confrontional manner. And I also mentioned that description fits a helluva lot of people here.

D. Count me as one of the ones suggesting that you mischaracterized my words/position. Perhaps you didn’t read carefully, I did mention the phrase “IRL”, however, did not at all claim that I knew him IRL, or knew of him IRL. Perhaps my writing was less than clear, however, others seem to have picked up on it.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/158 "2003-05-19T14:54:16Z")

</div>

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \*  
> \*\*jesus christ that was unnecessary. \*\*

I am not sure, but I think this is in reply to Zenster’s replies.

If not, ignore me.  
If so, I don’t see how he was given much choice.  
I can see it now: damned if he did and damned if he didn’t:

“You see? He _is_ a prick. He didn’t have the balls to reply to my post”

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/159 "2003-05-19T15:05:56Z")

</div>

> [@](#):
>
> Kyla, while I shall make every attempt to accept your apology, it was essentially worthless to me.

If it’s so worthless, don’t bother accepting it. Honestly, I meant what I said. What I regret is that I posted it in so public a forum. It was wholly inappropriate.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-but-zenster-is-a-fuckwit/175669/160 "2003-05-19T19:07:55Z")

</div>

I’ve never met **Zenster**. I don’t recall any significant interactions with him on this board, though my memory in such matters is demonstrably spotty. But for some reason I found myself compelled to read this entire thread. My conclusions:  
[ol][li]Some posters whose honesty I have no reason to question attest to **Zenster’s** expressions of compassion in both words and deed.[/li][li]Some posters whose honesty I have no reason to quesiton say that they have met **Zenster** and find his personality objectionable.[/li][li]Point (2) has been expressed with a stunning lack of the compassion and empathy that point (1) finds evidenced Herr **Zenster**.[/li][/ol]  
So, **Zenster** , I think you quite likely are opinionated, outspoken, and possibly boorish in social gathering. If I ever have occassion to gather socially with you I shall most certainly buy you a beer (or a whiskey, if your pallate inclines in such directions). An ounce of honest human compassion is worth a pound of personality flaws.

And then some. Good on ya, mate.

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