# "I'm sorry if anyone was offended"...No You Aren't **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383 "2013-02-25T22:54:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/61 "2013-02-26T19:52:48Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “I couldn’t be sorrier about what happened.” …so I won’t even try." ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/62 "2013-02-26T22:17:18Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > You absolutely did advocate for this. > > Was that some other **Kimstu**? > > There are two situations here and you are either deliberately or inadvertantly equivocating between the two. > > Situation A is whether you should apologise if you don’t have to and don’t want to. You say you shouldn’t. I’m not arguing with you about this and never have. > > Situation B is where you “are being confronted with demands for an apology that you can’t ignore” and you say in that situation “what you need to do is apologize”. > > I disagree with you about Situation B for reasons given above. I have pointed out that it is highly unprincipled to lie and apologise because of a demand "for an apology that you can’t ignore’’ (ie when your balls are in hock) if you don’t have to lie because an honest qualified apology is sufficient. Each time I point this out you immediately equivocate and justify your shit by blathering about Situation A which I have not and never have been discussing. I’m sorry if you were offended by **Kimstu’s** post. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/63 "2013-02-26T22:58:54Z")
> [@11811](#): > > Touche It’s actually kind of a thing my roommates and I do to each other.\* “Don’t take this personally but it’s cold in here so I’m gonna go put some socks on.” “I’m not racist but do you guys want to get a pizza?” \*Ok, it’s actually just me and my roommates think it’s stupid but that’s part of the reason I do it. To annoy them. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/64 "2013-02-26T23:03:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m sorry if you were offended by **Kimstu’s** post. I’m sorry if anyone was offended by **John Mace** ’s conditional apology for **Kimstu** ’s post. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/65 "2013-02-26T23:42:31Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > \*Written without any disagreement regarding the primary focus of the OP. \* > I think this happens all the time with complete sincerity. For example, sometimes I say something to Mrs. Devil that _unintentionally_ hurts her feelings. A full explanation of the remark’s context and my intended meaning amply demonstrates that there was no persistent, tangible rationale for offence. Yet despite being ‘in the right’ (or whatever you want to call it), it’s still right to apologize for hurting her feelings. It’s of course not always the case (I’m [del]sometimes[/del] typically an ass), but there are times that I, and I assume lots of Dopers, are sorry for offending someone without being sorry for the underlying statement per se. “I’m sorry if you were offended” isn’t the best way to make such an apology, though. This may seem nitpicky, but there is a difference between “I’m sorry I offended you” and “I’m sorry [if] you were offended.” The former is actually an apology – you [generic you] are saying you regret the consequences of your actions, even if they were unintended – but the latter is really just saying you pity the person for being offended but are not accepting any responsibility for it. It’s kind of like saying “I’m sorry your dog died.” That’s not an apology, it’s an expression of sympathy. Which is perfectly appropriate if you had nothing to do with the sad situation, but kind of awful if you did. Including the “if” is even worse, as it suggests that you either don’t know or don’t believe that the other person actually was offended. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/66 "2013-02-27T03:34:10Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:64, topic:651383”] I’m sorry if anyone was offended by **John Mace** ’s conditional apology for **Kimstu** ’s post. [/QUOTE] It’s well known that \*\*Kimstu \*\*has compromising pictures of you involving a goat, a well lubricated boat anchor and an apple. Your balls are well and truly in hock. If I were you I’d quit with the qualifications and offer a fulsome apology pronto. You know how she feels about these things. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/67 "2013-02-27T03:42:44Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > If I were you I’d quit with the qualifications and offer a \*\*fulsome \*\*apology pronto. You know how she feels about these things. I think ‘fulsome’ means you’ll be needing to borrow my man-sized bustier. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/68 "2013-02-27T03:53:46Z")
But what if I am really sorry if I offended someone, especially if I didn’t realize that what I said was offensive until they took offense? Not everyone who says “I’m sorry you were offended” is being insincere. I know I really mean I am sorry when I say it. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/69 "2013-02-27T04:18:00Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It’s well known that \*\*Kimstu \*\*has compromising pictures of you involving a goat, a well lubricated boat anchor and an apple. Your balls are well and truly in hock. If I were you I’d quit with the qualifications and offer a fulsome apology pronto. You know how she feels about these things. You forgot to mention that you were the one riding the goat and holding the apple. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/70 "2013-02-27T04:24:11Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > But what if I am really sorry if I offended someone, especially if I didn’t realize that what I said was offensive until they took offense? Not everyone who says “I’m sorry you were offended” is being insincere. I know I really mean I am sorry when I say it. Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about in my post above, April. Sometimes you say the truth, and it offends someone, and you are sorry that they took offense, but you aren’t sorry for saying what you said. I don’t see any insincerity there. But a lot of people actually aren’t sorry at all that you are offended, yet they say it anyway. I’d say the vast majority of “I’m sorry if you were offended” apologies are insincere. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/71 "2013-02-27T05:20:14Z")
I’ve never really considered not apologizing if it was clear to me that I had both wronged someone and that, had I exercised a modicum of forethought, I could have avoided having done so. Simple right? Yeah. Not when you’re counting up your sandwiches only to realize that you’re short because your pic-i-nic basket was packed by Lucy and Ethel (for the yunguns out there, think Chang and Dean Pelton - yeah, better since they would throw in some mace and bolt cutters - what, you got a fuckin’ problem with that? 😉 ). I don’t even really mind apologizing when fault isn’t clear but it doesn’t really cost me anything to show a little bit of weakness if I think it will help the other person. That’s a dangerous and tricky maneuver since people really do tend to be like sharks very often and unless you have very good people skills (people \*what \*now?), it’s very hard to tell the difference. Even so, if I can just cut off a pinky toe or slice off a tiny bit of non-essential muscle, I mostly don’t mind - usually. The thing that tends to get under my skin though is when I have this almost epistemological conviction that the person is not actually offended in any meaningful way but has as their primary desire a need to force everyone else to become emotionally subservient via guilt. Now if that didn’t set off your ‘I smell some psych issues’ alarm, you need to go in for a recalibration stat. I mean for me to invoke the concept of an epistemological conviction in the context of anything approximating social reality is just, let’s say ‘quite humorous’ and leave it at that. All the same, I’m sure it happens as it’s just another manifestation of Ye Olde power trip right? And whether someone uses it as an end in itself to provide emotional satisfaction for their emotionally stunted persona, as a tool of manipulation or likely both, I’m sure the phenomenon is quite real. So here’s the question. How does that factor in. Can/should it? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/72 "2013-02-27T05:34:42Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:69, topic:651383”] You forgot to mention that you were the one riding the goat and holding the apple. [/QUOTE] I’d like to offer a fulsome unqualified apology for my omission. Just don’t mention this ever again. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/73 "2013-02-27T08:54:35Z")
Personally, I see no problems with “expedient apologies” where it’s patently obvious the person making the apology is doing so not because they’re actually sorry but because they’re required/forced/under immense pressure to do so. Given that everything is offensive to someone these days, that seems to happen quite a bit, it seems, regardless of whether or not the action/comments in question really were offensive to people who weren’t looking for something to be outraged about. Again, personally, I’d love to hear someone with a public profile involved in some trivial manufactured outrage\* say “Actually, I’m not sorry, and I don’t care if there’s a shitload of people being outraged on social media about [whatever was allegedly done]. Go to the hardware store, buy some timber, build a bridge, and get the fuck over it. Oh, and while you’re at the hardware store, feel free to buy some cement so you can harden the fuck up in the process.” I doubt it will happen any time soon, though. \*As in, not an actual outrage where they really should be sorry for doing something truly abhorrent ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/74 "2013-02-27T09:43:35Z")
You have the right to be offended. I have the right to be offensive. I will apologise if what I say is found to be incorrect, or in some way illegal, but I offer no apology for your precious sensitivity. I try very hard to be considerate and inoffensive at all times. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/75 "2013-02-27T12:52:42Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about in my post above, April. Sometimes you say the truth, and it offends someone, and you are sorry that they took offense, but you aren’t sorry for saying what you said. I don’t see any insincerity there. > > But a lot of people actually aren’t sorry at all that you are offended, yet they say it anyway. I’d say the vast majority of “I’m sorry if you were offended” apologies are insincere. Also, sometimes what you thought was the “truth” or something innocuous tuns out to be false or misinformed and it took someone taking offense to realize you had been wrong or ignorant. Most of the time when I am sorry someone took offense it is because they helped me see something I thought or said _was_ wrong and I need to amend something in my thinking or actions. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/76 "2013-02-27T14:20:59Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > I think ‘fulsome’ means you’ll be needing to borrow my man-sized bustier. We had a priest visit and say Mass now and then and he insisted on talking about offering God “fulsome” praise. I do not think that word (always) means what he thinks it means. Pick an unambiguous word! (Definition 3 being the one I always think of.) > **[Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words](https://www.dictionary.com)** > > The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years! 1. offensive to good taste, especially as being excessive; overdone or gross: fulsome praise that embarrassed her deeply; fulsome décor. 2. disgusting; sickening; repulsive: a table heaped with fulsome mounds of greasy foods. 3. excessively or insincerely lavish: fulsome admiration. 4. encompassing all aspects; comprehensive: a fulsome survey of the political situation in Central America. 5. abundant or copious. ---
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/77 "2013-02-28T06:52:05Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Eh, I can’t get outraged by this. For one thing, as people have already point out, sometimes it’s purely a matter of practicality. In addition, imagine a situation where you’re a filmmaker or author or comedian or something, and you have some piece of material that you think makes an important point, but which pushes the limits of what is generally considered acceptable for some reason. If you think long and hard about it, and decide that the point you’re making is clever or important or entertaining enough, and you’ve put in some due diligence in ensuring that whatever pushing of the boundaries you’re doing is in fact necessary and not gratuitous; and you publish/release your work, and some number of people are publicly offended… well, a response of “I’m sorry that people were offended” strikes me as a totally reasonable and even expected reaction. You weren’t deliberately trying to make people offended or upset or uncomfortable. So to the extent that that happened, you’re legitimately sorry. But at the same time you’re not going to apologize for your action because you think it was valuable and you in fact put thought and work into crafting it the way you did. I knew this was a controversial topic going into it, but after weighing the options, I felt it was important to present the subject on all sides. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/78 "2013-02-28T07:52:30Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > We had a priest visit and say Mass now and then and he insisted on talking about offering God “fulsome” praise. I do not think that word (always) means what he thinks it means. Pick an unambiguous word! (Definition 3 being the one I always think of.) > > [www.dictionary.com](http://www.dictionary.com) > > 1. offensive to good taste, especially as being excessive; overdone or gross: fulsome praise that embarrassed her deeply; fulsome décor. > 2. disgusting; sickening; repulsive: a table heaped with fulsome mounds of greasy foods. > 3. excessively or insincerely lavish: fulsome admiration. > 4. encompassing all aspects; comprehensive: a fulsome survey of the political situation in Central America. > 5. abundant or copious. Offer noisome joy unto the Lord! ---
**Author:** ![vd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b19c9b/32.png) [@vd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vd)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/79 "2013-02-28T12:03:44Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > But what if I am really sorry if I offended someone, especially if I didn’t realize that what I said was offensive until they took offense? Not everyone who says “I’m sorry you were offended” is being insincere. I know I really mean I am sorry when I say it. Just make the apology about what you did, rather than how it made them feel. If you’re sincere, own it. “I’m sorry. What I said was wrong.” You can then follow up with feeling bad about the feeling bad and what you really meant. > [@Dmitri Martin](#): > > Saying ‘I’m sorry’ is the same as saying ‘I apologize.’ Except at a funeral. ---
**Author:** ![Aizle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Aizle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aizle)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383/80 "2013-02-28T19:21:58Z")
I blame Shakespeare: > [@](#): > > If we shadows have offended, > Think but this, and all is mended, > That you have but slumber’d here > While these visions did appear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-sorry-if-anyone-was-offended-no-you-arent/651383.md?page=5)