# I'm starting to get the feeling that the conservative right is winning **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 2, 2021, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477 "2021-07-02T05:08:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/403 "2021-07-11T17:28:50Z")
“If you can convince the lowest Black man he’s better than the best Asian man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” Undead Lyndon B. Johnson ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/404 "2021-07-11T17:31:16Z")
If you can convince a black man that any group doing better must have some kind of unfair advantage, must be cheating in some way, what will he make of Asian comparative success? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/405 "2021-07-11T17:33:44Z")
Umm, that they must have an unfair advantage and must be cheating in some way. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/406 "2021-07-11T17:34:05Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > What’s agency got to do with it? > **Pointing out that non-white people’s racism is rooted in good ol’ American racism shouldn’t even be a question**. . . unless, of course, we’re just adopting the, now very popular, notion that non-white people aren’t really _real_ Americans. What’s agency got to do with it??.. Am I being whooshed here? Who is responsible for Farrakhan’s anti-semitism if not fucking Farrakhan. Are you seriously excusing his racism on it being rooted in “good ol’ American racism”? Look. Racism has deep roots and systemic racism is a problem not to be trivialized. But this kind of departure from reason and reality is not the solution. Please tell me I misunderstood what you said or that you misspoke. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/407 "2021-07-11T17:37:29Z")
I’m with Spice Weasel: I don’t understand what would make a white person so hyper-defensive about one freaking article, which, by the way, none of us have read in its entirety, despite having been referenced repeatedly in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/408 "2021-07-11T17:42:07Z")
No, Farrakhan or any Black person being biased is not excusable - as far as I know, nobody here made that argument or even countenanced it. What has been argued is that structural racism is a thing, and that whites created the structure and non-whites are living it. What I’ve argued is that there’s a difference between racism that was used as the building material for that structure, and the ‘racism’ and bias of not trusting and having resentment toward white people because they’ve been screwed for generations. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/409 "2021-07-11T17:45:13Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > No, Farrakhan or any Black person being biased is not excusable - as far as I know, nobody here made that argument or even countenanced it. What has been argued is that structural racism is a thing, and that whites created the structure and non-whites are living it. {…} Exactly, and singling out X group’s bigotry from the main group’s bigotry, as if it’s different, is mote/beam type situation. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/410 "2021-07-11T17:48:55Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Who is responsible for Farrakhan’s anti-semitism if not fucking Farrakhan. Are you seriously excusing his racism on it being rooted in “good ol’ American racism”? Oh, please. Farrakhan is an outlier, a proponent of a demented belief system (with a diminishing number of followers) and really shouldn’t be used as an example of anything (except perhaps as an example of a healthy tolerance for _all_ religions in this nation). Seriously. I can walk down certain streets in my area in Brooklyn and see his adherents, in front of tables they’ve set up bearing their tracts and pamphlets and newspapers, chanting “trust Farrakhan, not Fauci!” I guess they’re anti-vax. And pretty much nobody stops to pick up the “literature” (talk about a distortion of meaning of a word). Nobody cares. Not Black people, not white people. Nobody “excuses” Farrakhan’s racism. And it _is_ racism, to be fair. We’re just saying it just doesn’t matter in the way white supremacy matters, or even soft white racism matters. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/411 "2021-07-11T17:51:41Z")
And find us ways that Farrakhan’s anti-semitism differs from good ol’ fashioned anti-semitism that actually matter. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/412 "2021-07-11T18:00:37Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > It’s standard progressive thinking. I don’t think they believe non-white people have any agency of their own. Cite for this? I’m not aware of any real world progressives who believe this. I certainly don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/413 "2021-07-11T18:01:14Z")
Man, for supposedly being so well educated progressives are sure horrible at explaining themselves. ‘Defund the Police’ doesn’t actually mean ‘Defund the Police’. We’re all socialists now, but socialism isn’t what we mean. When we say the system needs to be torn down and rebuilt, we don’t actually mean it should be torn down, but some changes should be made. When we say minorities can’t be racist, we mean they can be racist, but it’s not the kind of racism white people have. Oh, and by ‘white people’ we mean anyone acting white. But of course there’s no such thing as ‘acting white’, because that would be racist… What’s really going on is that the most excitable part of the left latches on to these ideas, and really mean it. Other Democrats join in and support the loudest ones. Then it slowly becomes apparent that A) these ideas are crazy, and B) they are electoral poison. So the shuck and jive starts. It’s Republicans who really want to defund the police. Socialism really just means slightly more regulation and slightly higher taxes on the rich. ‘Defund the police’ really means give them more funding for training. Critical Race Theory is just an obscure legal philosophy that is totally not being taipught in schools, but Republicans are awful for trying to get CRT out of schools. No, of course white people aren’t born racists, but anti-racism is still necessary for white people to be accepted as non-racist, and white people definitely need training in how mot to be racist. And so it goes… ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/414 "2021-07-11T18:01:59Z")
Wait, where’s the link to that Moss abstract… ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/415 "2021-07-11T18:04:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But your loudest mouthpieces in the Democratic party joined in on Defund the Police, and no one shut them up. Democratic pundits joined the chorus. The DSA wing of the party was fully on board - you know, the ones you wished had more power. Democratc mayors actually DID defund police, leading to violent crime apikes in their cities. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > BTW it is really gross to blame seemingly racist behavior of Biden for his position, it is like you do want to ignore that most democrats did see early on how extreme that slogan/request was. > > And by contrast, and pointed already, the majority of the current Republican Party, both at the government and the rank and file level, still follow the big lie that Trump did not lose fair and square. Among many other things, were most Republicans are being misled. So you’re objections to strawmanning are for when people you disagree with allegedly do so, but you’re personally happy to employ that debate tactic to advance your own arguments? There’s nothing wrong with looking at the policies of the Democratic left-wing and assessing whether the American right will object to those policies. You’re disregarding the fact that those policies exist, because they’re not stated policies of the Biden government. No one’s disputing that the centrist Biden government is less liberal than than the left wing of the Democratic Party. The question is whether the positions take by the people in the left wing of are anathema to the American right such that they choose not to be affiliated with the Democratic Party. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/416 "2021-07-11T18:05:55Z")
My inderstanding is that progressives believe that racism requires ‘punching down’, and you can’t really be racist if you are a protected minority hating on an oppressive white majority, because white people are the controllers of the power structures, and therefore valid targets. After all, would you say a black South African is racist for hating the white people that kept him oppressed with their Apartheid policies? Am I close? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/417 "2021-07-11T18:10:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > {…} if you are a protected minority {…} Please, tell us more about these protected minorities? Enthrall us with your acumen! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/418 "2021-07-11T18:10:47Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > And find us ways that Farrakhan’s anti-semitism differs from good ol’ fashioned anti-semitism that actually matter. It doesn’t differ. That was my point. What you said was: > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > **Pointing out that non-white people’s racism is rooted in good ol’ American racism shouldn’t even be a question** I understand you and another hand waved this away but I still don’t understand what you meant by this and I would like to hear a non-dismissive explanation. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/419 "2021-07-11T18:11:43Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > So you’re objections to strawmanning are for when people you disagree with allegedly do so, but you’re personally happy to employ that debate tactic to advance your own arguments? Everyone can go up and see that you omitted the part where Sam does refer to alleged racism that made Biden do the “right” thing there. As for the point about the big lie, it is still one of the points I made earlier, and it is relevant (I did not say that Sam said it, I’m just saying). Any desire to justify the idea that one should be glad to see the right winning in the US or to vote for it, has to confront the fact that currently it is harmful to the wellbeing of America. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/420 "2021-07-11T18:12:37Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Please, tell us more about these protected minorities? > Enthrall us with your acumen! Seriously? > **[Protected group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group)** > > A protected group, protected class (US), or prohibited ground (Canada) is a category by which people are qualified for special protection by a law, policy, or similar authority. > In Canada and the United States, the term is frequently used in connection with employees and employment and housing. Where illegal discrimination on the basis of protected group status is concerned, a single act of discrimination may be based on more than one protected class. For example, discrimination based on ant... ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/421 "2021-07-11T18:16:14Z")
Then we agree. I have a problem with certain people singling out Black anti-Asian racism as ‘’‘special’’’, as if it’s somehow divorced from and no part of American anti-Asian racism. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/422 "2021-07-11T18:18:25Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Seriously? Yes, that cite in mind, tell me what group is not included in “protected minorities”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477.md?page=22)