# I'm starting to get the feeling that the conservative right is winning **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 2, 2021, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477 "2021-07-02T05:08:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/123 "2021-07-07T00:59:14Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Is there room in the big tent for anti-Semitic bigots, for example? As others noted, you can count with one’s had fingers the ones that one can exaggerate about what they actually said on one party. The Republican tent has closed their moderate section. > **[We knew QAnon is anti-Semitic. Now we know it’s racist, too](https://thebulletin.org/2021/07/we-knew-qanon-is-anti-semitic-now-we-know-its-racist-too/)** > > Much of QAnon ideology stems from anti-Semitic tropes about elite cabals and blood-drinking pedophiles. It should come as no surprise, then, that QAnon is widely racist, too. But highlighting the extent of that racism may help diminish the spread of... > **[Poll: Nearly 7 in 10 US Jews think Republican Party holds anti-Semitic views](https://www.timesofisrael.com/69-of-us-jews-52-of-all-americans-republican-party-holds-anti-semitic-views/)** > > American Jewish Committee surveys also find 52% of all Americans think GOP holds anti-Semitic opinions; 82% of US Jews say anti-Semitism on rise in last 5 years > **[Opinion | 199 House Republicans have embraced anti-Semitism and violence](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/02/05/199-house-republicans-have-embraced-anti-semitism-violence/)** > > I never expected I would see in my lifetime, in the United States, what occurred on the floor of the House this week. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/124 "2021-07-07T01:44:26Z")
Several House Democrats, who are Jewish, made a statement that her recent remarks were anti-Semitic. Then she doubled down, and said that _they_ were the problem, for attacking her. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/125 "2021-07-07T02:32:38Z")
Uh, early on there was Sam claiming that Noam Chomsky was supportive of free speech and Republicans approved of him on that issue; problem is that Chomsky, more than Omar, has been hypercritical of the state violence the US and Israel gets involved on occasion. As it should have been clear, but the right likes to end the criticism by playing the anti-Semitic card, criticizing Israel does not make one an anti-Semite. > **[Noam Chomsky: Israel’s Actions in Palestine are “Much Worse Than Apartheid”...](https://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/8/noam_chomsky_what_israel_is_doing)** > > Part 2 of our conversation with famed linguist and political dissident Noam Chomsky on the crisis in Gaza, U.S. support for Israel, apartheid and the BDS movement. > **[Criticizing Israel is not antisemitic — it's academic freedom](https://theconversation.com/criticizing-israel-is-not-antisemitic-its-academic-freedom-148864)** > > Scholars researching the politics and policies of Israel have been facing a growing and uphill battle for academic freedom. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/126 "2021-07-07T02:56:22Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As it should have been clear, but the right likes to end the criticism by playing the anti-Semitic card, criticizing Israel does not make one an anti-Semite. The 11 House Democrats that criticized her comments are right-wing? Brad Schneider, Lois Frankel, Jerry Nadler, et. al.? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/127 "2021-07-07T03:04:17Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The 11 House Democrats that criticized her comments are right-wing? Brad Schneider, Lois Frankel, Jerry Nadler, et. al.? I would say the same thing to them, again, not everything critical of Israel is automatically antisemitic. And duly noted that when guys like Chomsky are mentioned by the right as supportive of freedom of speech, it is noticeable that you don’t see how you or even the democrats you mention are not defending Omar’s speech rights. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/128 "2021-07-07T05:29:28Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Several House Democrats, who are Jewish, made a statement that her recent remarks were anti-Semitic. Let’s see a cite for this (asking for the second time). None of the criticism from other Democrats I could find called it anti-semitic. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/129 "2021-07-07T16:26:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > … I once saw a Trump supporter - a Hispanic woman, at that…you know team loyalty trumps race and gender. I’m not surprised. A large number of Hispanic people are conservative. I’m not sure they’re the majority but they make up a significant percent of the whole. I’ve heard conservatives accuse liberals of weakening border polices with Mexico in order to increase the number of liberals in the US. If that was an actual strategy of the left it would be a poor one; it may do the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/130 "2021-07-07T17:17:49Z")
Kevin Drum: > **[If you hate the culture wars, blame liberals - Kevin Drum](https://jabberwocking.com/if-you-hate-the-culture-wars-blame-liberals/)** > > On Thursday I posted a series of charts that all documented a similar theme: Since roughly the year 2000, according to survey data, Democrats have moved significantly to the left on most hot button social issues while Republicans have moved only... > [@](#): > > Since roughly the year 2000, according to survey data, Democrats have moved significantly to the left on most hot button social issues while Republicans have moved only slightly right. > > This wasn’t meant to be a rigorous scholarly analysis. And you can argue about margins of error, question wording, choice of topics, and so forth. Still, the gaps are too big and the trend too consistent to ignore the obvious conclusion that over the past two decades Democrats have moved left far more than Republicans have moved right Currently, Republicans are much closer to the median voter. in political attitude. In 1994, the Democrats were exactly in the middle of the political divide, while Republicans were slightly more conservative (on a 10 point scale, Democrats were at 5, and Republicans at 6). Fast forward to 2017, and Democrats are now at 2, while Republicans are at 6.5. The Republicans barely moved, while Democrats have shifted way to the left. The result is that Democrats are basically picking up more white liberals, while losing white moderates, Blacks and Hispanics who tend to be more socially conservative than white liberals. In the last election, Democrats lost 9-11% of their Hispanic support. Demography apparently is no longer destiny. Democrats have become the party of large urban areas, and losing support pretty mich everywhere else. As Drum points out, this does not bode well for future Democratic control of the House and Senate. They lost support in both in the last election, when everything was in their favor. And now crime and law and order issues are digging into their support in the big cities. It should be a warning to Democrats that Black retired police officer and political moderate Eric Adams just won the Democratic primary in New York, running on a law-and-order platform and explicitly calling out the ‘Defund the Police’ foolishness from Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/131 "2021-07-07T17:24:44Z")
This totally ignores Trump. National politics is now Trump vs everyone not comfortable with Trump. Everything else doesn’t matter - Trump has been successful in making everything about him. Issues don’t matter, relatively speaking. This will continue until the Republicans are no longer the party of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/132 "2021-07-07T18:17:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Fast forward to 2017, and Democrats are now at 2, while Republicans are at 6.5. The Republicans barely moved, while Democrats have shifted way to the left. Are you sure? > **[Republicans closely resemble autocratic parties in Hungary and Turkey – study](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/26/republican-party-autocratic-hungary-turkey-study-trump)** > > Swedish university finds ‘dramatic shift’ in GOP under Trump, shunning democratic norms and encouraging violence [The new study](https://www.v-dem.net/en/data/data/v-party-dataset/), the largest ever of its kind, was carried out by the V-Dem Institute at the University of Gothenburg in Sweden, using newly developed methods to measure and quantify the health of the world’s democracies at a time when authoritarianism is on the rise. Anna Lührmann, V-Dem’s deputy director, said the Republican transformation had been “certainly the most dramatic shift in an established democracy”. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/133 "2021-07-07T18:37:59Z")
Kevin Drum lost me by blaming the liberals for the divisions, he also lost me when mentioning the bit about “following the emergence of “defund the police” as a nationally salient issue, support for Biden among Hispanic voters declined.” Completely ignoring that Biden and almost all democrats did not support that issue that was pushed by extreme activists, Drum grossly misses that the right wing in the US did not bother to tell their readers or viewers that Biden was not in support of that, they even lied about what Biden thought about the issue. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/134 "2021-07-07T18:45:43Z")
Oh, and then there is this: > ¹And for God’s sake, please don’t insult my intelligence by pretending that wokeness and cancel culture are all just figments of the conservative imagination. Sure, they overreact to this stuff, but it really exists, it really is a liberal invention, and it really does make even moderate conservatives feel like their entire lives are being held up to a spotlight and found wanting. Ok, I will say it: **Kevin Drum, you are a fool**. As I pointed many times before, even progressives have dropped the “woke” stuff because right-wingers and virtue signal corporations turned it into poison. Nowadays, when that word or concept is mentioned, it is only good because it identifies useful idiots of the right wing like yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/135 "2021-07-07T19:14:30Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > You almost had me in agreement until you included that last guy. > There was an opinion piece in our local paper last week, recounting how Reagan gutted funding for the University of California in **1967**. Up until then, one of the finest educations in the world was virtually free for California residents. Reagan slashed their budget, forcing them to begin charging tuition…because he didn’t like the politics of UC faculty and students. > Republican hatred for public education goes back a long ways. Reagan is also responsible for dismantling the outstanding California mental health care system, shutting facilities, putting the residents out on the streets. A huge factor in the ever-growing homeless problem, which Republicans rag on at every opportunity. Be grateful for Covid, or Trump’s second act, after locking immigrants in detention camps, would have been rounding up and warehousing the homeless. > **[Trump officials tour unused FAA facility in California in search for place to...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/09/12/trump-officials-tour-unused-faa-facility-california-search-place-relocate-homeless-people/)** > > President Trump has directed aides to launch a major crackdown on homelessness in California, spurring an effort across multiple government agencies to determine how to deal with sprawling tent camps on the streets of Los Angeles and other cities,... “A team of Trump administration officials toured a California facility once used by the Federal Aviation Administration this week as they searched for a potential site to relocate homeless people, according to three government officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the private tour.” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/136 "2021-07-08T04:32:05Z")
You’re right, they said it was offensive, misguided, and reflects deep seated prejudice. I trust their version of events. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/137 "2021-07-08T07:06:01Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You’re right, they said it was offensive, misguided, and reflects deep seated prejudice. But not anti-Semitic. > [@](#): > > I trust their version of events. Thank you for confirming that we can’t trust yours. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/138 "2021-07-08T08:05:35Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You’re right, they said it was offensive, misguided, and reflects deep seated prejudice. Good for you for recognizing how wrong you were. Hopefully we can move on from this irrelevancy. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/139 "2021-07-08T10:18:31Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > even progressives have dropped the “woke” stuff because right-wingers and virtue signal corporations turned it into poison. So a bunch of leftist snowflakes decided a few years ago to label themselves with a ridiculous term, and after years of ridicule have decided to drop the label? Have they got a new label, or are they merely using the mundane and inaccurate “progressive”? It doesn’t really matter. People might roll their eyes when someone describes themselves as woke or start talking about fringe policies that are totally detached from reality, but it’s their actual leftist politics and hostility to everyone that doesn’t share their politics that people object to. And as long as that left-wing element is a significant part of the Democratic Party, the people that object to those leftist political views are going to stay away from the Democratic Party, which for now means either being Republican or Independent. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/140 "2021-07-08T10:42:25Z")
Reagan had three main goals as governor of California: to balance the budget, welfare reform, and to crack down on what he viewed as illegal protests. He succeeded in all three of these goals, and was popular with the majority of California’s voters. Had he run for a third term as governor, he likely would have been elected. His actions which are being derided in this thread were consistent with his goals as governor, and in totality were met with approval by most Californians of the time. However, he was a divisive politician, so it’s no surprise that people who disliked him are continuing that dislike. But blaming him for current problem in California? His governorship ended in 1975 - 46 years ago. That’s worse than the people in the UK who blame Thatcher for the UK’s current problems. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/141 "2021-07-08T11:07:23Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > People might roll their eyes when someone describes themselves as woke or start talking about fringe policies that are totally detached from reality, but it’s their actual leftist politics and hostility to everyone that doesn’t share their politics that people object to. Actually, what they “object to” is the false characterization of those policies by the vast right-wing propaganda machine. When presented in a politically neutral format, a sizable majority of Americans support [many of those progressive policies in principle](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/majority-of-americans-support-progressive-policies-such-as-paid-maternity-leave-free-college.html) (to provide a random example). It’s only when those policies and ideas are subjected to concentrated and coordinated national smear campaigns that they develop unthinking kneejerk reactions. Consider the current efforts against CRT or trans rights or even voting rights - all have been specifically targeted by such campaigns, carefully designed to increased Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt to maximum levels, making their target audiences feel threatened and persecuted and unwilling to even consider any other perspective than the version of event that they are being presented with. And this is why “the conservative right” is winning (although as noted there’s little that is “conservative” about them these days). Because they lie. They lie constantly, they lie skilfully, they lie in unison, and they lie well. They lie and they lie and they lie and they lie and they lie. The lies are even easy to spot - you suddenly start to hear right-wing media and politicians and websites and - yes - paid trolls all repeating the same messages, often verbatim with the same catchphrases (one can recall, for example, the use of “rammed down our throats” during the ACA negotiations, and keep an eye out at the moment for “banana republic”). But the target audience don’t spot this, because they are lies they want to believe, and to repeat. And so we reach a state where half the country - literally tens of millions of people - are (what was the phrase?) “totally detached from reality”. They believe that the 2020 election was “stolen”. They believe that Hillary Clinton has had people murdered. They believe Obama deliberately left Americans to die in Benghazi. They believe Christians are persecuted in the US. They believe that anti-racism is racism and that anti-fascism is fascism. And they believe this because the lies they are told by everyone they listen to reinforce those messages, and because part of those lies is the lie that anyone saying anything that contradicts those lies is lying. And so here we are. As for “hostility to everyone who doesn’t share their politics”, well, I refer you to the above. In a world where there are multiple media outlets specifically devoted to slandering Democrats/liberals 24/7 for decades, where Jeannine Pirro literally has had a platform to repeatedly scream “DEMONRATS!” at the television camera, I find it telling that many of the same outlets will, at the slightest pushback, immediately demand to know why the left are so _mean_ to them. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477/142 "2021-07-08T11:09:53Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > But blaming him for current problem in California? His governorship ended in 1975 - 46 years ago. That’s worse than the people in the UK who blame Thatcher for the UK’s current problems. Now you’re catching on — consequences of their actions don’t disappear just because a politician leaves office, they affect the future as well as the present. California’s mental health treatment system has never recovered from Reagan’s dismantling 46 years ago, so yes, he absolutely contributed to today’s problem. ‘Welfare reform’, aka shifting money from poor people to cronies, is another key component of homelessness, so he gets extra credit for that. Popularity and competence are not the same thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-starting-to-get-the-feeling-that-the-conservative-right-is-winning/945477.md?page=8)