# I'm such a douchebag, I can't park my Lexus! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451 "2006-11-07T17:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/41 "2006-11-08T02:53:33Z")
Are rear-mounted cameras common on cars in America? They’re great when you’re parking for making sure there are no low-lying obstacles or kids playing around. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/42 "2006-11-08T02:59:49Z")
I think a better option for aborting the automated sequence would be hitting the brake, not the gas pedal. ---
**Author:** ![Firebringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f04885/32.png) [@Firebringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Firebringer)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/43 "2006-11-08T11:45:34Z")
It’s a short step from a car parking it’s self to us being turned into batterys or having sky net start a war. I’ve not got one fitted but in the UK you can get bumper mounted proximity devices that some people use for parking. Think it’s radar or the like. As I understand it if you get within a set distance off an object it warns you. One bonus is that the kits can be fitted to any car. Got to say though to my mind physical disabilitys aside if someone can’t reverse park their car I don’t think they should be allowed on the roads. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/44 "2006-11-08T12:46:29Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Seems to me a better feature would by smaller wheels that lower from the undercarriage, lifting the four main wheels off the ground, and letting the car move sideways. [/QUOTE] This was actually available, a few years ago..it was “4-wheel” steering-you could steer all 4 wheels the same way, so the car could go sideways. What happened to it? it was dropped from production-no demand! ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/45 "2006-11-08T13:06:33Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] Did automatic transmission and cruise control result in an increased number of accidents? Has anyone successfully suied auto makers for these? [/QUOTE] Automatic transmission doesn’t mean the driver isn’t in control of the accelerator or brake pedal, cruise control does. Hence its ban in certain parts of Europe (Belgium IIRC) ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/46 "2006-11-08T13:07:54Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] This was actually available, a few years ago..it was “4-wheel” steering-you could steer all 4 wheels the same way, so the car could go sideways. What happened to it? it was dropped from production-no demand! [/QUOTE] I remember those, Honda Integra’s used to have them. As a kid I desperately searched the streets from the back seat of Dad’s car, straining to see one park. Disappointingly, no one where we lived or shopped at the time was flash enough to have one. ---
**Author:** ![FormerMarineGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/65b543/32.png) [@FormerMarineGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FormerMarineGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/47 "2006-11-08T13:42:22Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] Are rear-mounted cameras common on cars in America? They’re great when you’re parking for making sure there are no low-lying obstacles or kids playing around. [/QUOTE] If by rear mounting cameras, you mean a small camera that is near the license plate and shows the view behind the car when in reverse, yes, they are ‘common’. It is available as an option on a lot of SUV’s and even some cars. The Lexus lineup actually made this pretty popular. It is available as an option on a lot of cars and SUV’s now and is much more advanced compared to before. This is another one of those things that had a lot of critics when it came out. Some said people would become dependent on it and not pay attention to their surroundings. It has proven partially correct for those who use it as their primary means of investigating their surroundings. But these are probably the same people who would not look around at all when reversing. ---
**Author:** ![Available\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@Available\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Available_Jones)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/48 "2006-11-08T15:53:00Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] This was actually available, a few years ago..it was “4-wheel” steering-you could steer all 4 wheels the same way, so the car could go sideways. What happened to it? it was dropped from production-no demand! [/QUOTE] AFAIK, those sorta-experimental four-wheel steering systems were engineered to enhance handling and maneuverability, not make parking easier. The rear wheels never swiveled as much as the front wheels, and so never could allow a car to “crab-walk” into a parking space. The only vehicles in use (that I know of) with this “crab-walking” capability are boom lifts and the hydraulic dollies that movers use to relocate entire buildings. I do agree with the other Dopers here that a system to \*assist \* the driver in parking would have been far more valuable than a system to take over the task for the driver. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/49 "2006-11-08T15:55:35Z")
They could also turn the rear wheels in the opposite direction to reduce turn radius. > **[Steering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_wheel_steering)** > > Steering is the control of the direction of locomotion. > A conventional automotive steering arrangement allows a driver to control the direction of the vehicle by turning the direction of the front wheels using a hand–operated steering wheel positioned in front of the driver. The steering wheel is attached to a steering column, which is linked to rods, pivots and gears that allow the driver to change the direction of the front wheels. Other arrangements are sometimes found on different types of... ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/50 "2006-11-08T15:56:04Z")
[QUOTE=Available Jones] The rear wheels never swiveled as much as the front wheels, and so never could allow a car to “crab-walk” into a parking space. [/QUOTE] OK, _that_ would be freakin’ cool. _That_ I’d waste money on. Toyota, you know what to do… ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/51 "2006-11-08T16:26:01Z")
[QUOTE=Available Jones] AFAIK, those sorta-experimental four-wheel steering systems were engineered to enhance handling and maneuverability, not make parking easier [/QUOTE] From the [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_wheel_steering#Four-wheel_steering) link; > [@](#): > > Alternatively, several systems (including Delphi’s Quadrasteer and the system in Honda’s Prelude line) allow for the rear wheels to be steered in the opposite direction as the front wheels during low speeds. This allows the vehicle to turn in a significantly smaller radius—sometimes critical for large trucks or vehicles with trailers. So it was the Prelude and not the Integra I looked for as a kid. I can remember seeing them on TV backing into and driving out of parking spaces with ease with the wheels turning in opposite directions front and rear to do this. Although the back wheels would turn slightly in the same direction as the front wheels to help manouevering. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/52 "2006-11-08T16:47:44Z")
I can see such a complicated system breaking down (rapidly) once the car gets to be 5-6 years old! Repair bills and spare parts will be horrendous-so the car will get sold off to an “Honest Al’s”-style used car lots. Pure dreck, if you ask me! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/53 "2006-11-08T16:59:01Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] So it was the Prelude and not the Integra I looked for as a kid. I can remember seeing them on TV backing into and driving out of parking spaces with ease with the wheels turning in opposite directions front and rear to do this. Although the back wheels would turn slightly in the same direction as the front wheels to help manouevering. [/QUOTE] 'Fraid not. The rear-wheel-steering system on the Honda Prelude ONLY steered the rear wheels in the opposite direction from the front. Same goes for the 4WS Nissan (Skyline) and Mitsubishi (3000GT VR4) models. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/54 "2006-11-09T07:16:02Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] I can see such a complicated system breaking down (rapidly) once the car gets to be 5-6 years old! Repair bills and spare parts will be horrendous-so the car will get sold off to an “Honest Al’s”-style used car lots. Pure dreck, if you ask me! [/QUOTE] Yup. That stuff starts going wrong (and in the case of 4 wheel steering few, if any, test drivers could even _tell_ the car had 4 wheel steering) and the price tag is quickly more than what the car’s worth, so it goes up for sale. Not to mention that the weight of the system reduces fuel economy of the car (probably not much, but you add it to other pointless gizmos crammed into cars these days and I’d bet it’s costing you 1 MPG or so). ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/55 "2006-11-09T09:27:29Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] 'Fraid not. The rear-wheel-steering system on the Honda Prelude ONLY steered the rear wheels in the opposite direction from the front. Same goes for the 4WS Nissan (Skyline) and Mitsubishi (3000GT VR4) models. [/QUOTE] Ah, I thought there was such a feature for manouvers at higher speeds from what I remembered of car shows from the time. How does this compare to passive rear wheel steering? Have I heard that term correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Available\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@Available\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Available_Jones)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/56 "2006-11-15T03:40:03Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] How does this compare to passive rear wheel steering? Have I heard that term correctly? [/QUOTE] Passive rear wheel steering is, IIRC, special geometry engineered into a rear suspension setup that causes the rear wheels to swivel a minor amount under certain conditions. Again, this is intended to increase maneuverability, but the difference is that the driver has no direct control. This is a variation on existing suspension components, and there is no discrete mechanism to steer the wheels. Google “Porsche Weissach axle” for an example. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_User\_Name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Some\_User\_Name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_User_Name)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/57 "2006-11-16T03:53:34Z")
[QUOTE=Available Jones] AFAIK, those sorta-experimental four-wheel steering systems were engineered to enhance handling and maneuverability, not make parking easier. The rear wheels never swiveled as much as the front wheels, and so never could allow a car to “crab-walk” into a parking space. The only vehicles in use (that I know of) with this “crab-walking” capability are boom lifts and the hydraulic dollies that movers use to relocate entire buildings. I do agree with the other Dopers here that a system to \*assist \* the driver in parking would have been far more valuable than a system to take over the task for the driver. [/QUOTE] I’ve seen a few nicely built 4-wheel steer Jeeps- completely custom, of course. It allows for a lot more flexibility on your line choice through the obstacle. Never seen one crab-walk into a parking spot, though. I’ve only seen them on the trails, and you don’t parallel park too often in the woods. (Some of them still wear plates, but I don’t know if they are still street legal- once you’re at the point where 4 wheel steer looks like a good next step, your Jeep probably has not seen a road in years, anyway.) First Jeep I could find online with 4 wheel steer: [http://www.jpmagazine.com/featuredvehicles/63298\_1983\_jeep\_cj\_8/photo\_04.html](http://www.jpmagazine.com/featuredvehicles/63298_1983_jeep_cj_8/photo_04.html) If the autopark would work, that would be very cool. Does it get you out of the parking spot too? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451/58 "2006-11-16T09:34:55Z")
Oh, hell! I just remembered this, and I don’t have time to find the pic and scan it, but somebody had this kind of thing back in the 1920s, now that I think about it. It wasn’t 4-wheel steering, though. There was an extra set of _smaller_, fixed wheels that would lower from the car, raise it up off the tires and then slide it into the parking spot. Maybe if I remember and get time during the Thanksgiving weekend I’ll be able to do it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-such-a-douchebag-i-cant-park-my-lexus/379451.md?page=2)