# I'm throwing down the gauntlet: Poison vs. Venom **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 3, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972 "2012-06-03T21:56:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/1 "2012-06-03T21:56:32Z")
(I was originally going to post this in GD, but that forum doesn’t allow polls and I wanted to have one) So in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=653926), someone asks about “poisonous snakes”, and in the name of pedantry, [I gently remind them](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15127455&postcount=13) of the difference between poison and venom. Then **Blake** [comes along](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15127496&postcount=14) and attempts to refute my argument by claiming that poison and venom essentially have the same meaning and are interchangeable terms. [Colibri agrees](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15128248&postcount=35). [I provide two cites](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15127971&postcount=30) which clearly state that venom is directly injected while poison is inhaled or ingested, backing up my original claim. But of course these go ignored. So what say ye? Are you Team Poison or Team Venom? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/2 "2012-06-03T22:04:21Z")
Team Don’t Give A Shit. If you want to make a distinction between the usage of poisonous and venomous, feel free. But everyone else will go their own way. I have faith in the english language, when ambiguity arises, the speakers will dispel it adequately in their own way. I don’t need to enforce an arbitrary distinction myself. I’d only get ulcers anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/3 "2012-06-03T22:10:36Z")
Having spent some time handling poisonous snakes, I fully support the proper definitions of the words. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/4 "2012-06-03T22:11:02Z")
Thought for sure this was a battle of the bands thread. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/5 "2012-06-03T22:15:40Z")
Having eaten most of a rattlesnake without being poisoned, I would tend to recognize the distinction, but it’s not something I would get my panties in a twist over. OTOH, coming down off the mountain with a lot of sighs to educate the elementary school yanks is just silly. Shakespeare? You gotta be kidding me. OTOH a red highlighted pendantic warning isn’t really a ‘gentle’ reminder. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/6 "2012-06-03T22:17:52Z")
I believe this to be too generic of a poll. If you’re talking about the specific substance which is bad for things, there is probably little difference between poison or venom. If, on the other hand, which was the case in the referenced thread, you are talking about whether a given creature is poisonous or venomous, then the delivery method is what defines the difference between the two terms. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/7 "2012-06-03T22:27:08Z")
The Straight Dope: Taking votes on the facts since 1973. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/8 "2012-06-03T22:40:55Z")
Actually, since you are relying on Merriam-Webster for one of your cites (on venom), I should point out that their definitions both venomous and poisonous indicate that the terms are more-or-less synonyms: > [@](#): > > Definition of VENOMOUS > > 1: full of venom: as > a : **poisonous,** envenomed > b : noxious, pernicious \ > c : spiteful, malevolent \ > > 2: having a venom-producing gland and able to inflict a poisoned wound \ > [@](#): > > Definition of POISONOUS > > 1: destructive, harmful > > 2: having the properties or effects of poison : **venomous** > > 3: spiteful, malicious Bolding mine. If there is a distinction, it is that venomous is a subset of poisonous, applying to those poisonous animals that inject their poison or venom. So a rattlesnake is both poisonous and venomous. The original nitpick, in which you said that rattlesnakes “are not poisonous,” was clearly incorrect. In original usage, venomous could also apply to animals such as toads that merely contain poison, without injecting it. Nowadays that usage is somewhat obsolete. In other words, if there is a distinction, it’s not a dichotomy, the way you’ve characterized it. Something can be poisonous without being venomous (as in poisonous plants), but anything that is venomous is also poisonous. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/9 "2012-06-03T23:03:59Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Having eaten most of a rattlesnake without being poisoned, I would tend to recognize the distinction, but it’s not something I would get my panties in a twist over. OTOH, coming down off the mountain with a lot of sighs to educate the elementary school yanks is just silly. Shakespeare? You gotta be kidding me. OTOH a red highlighted pendantic warning isn’t really a ‘gentle’ reminder. OK buddy, you got me. I’m not always (or ever really) Mr. Tactful. But it’s gentle for me - you don’t want to see when I get aggressive. 😛 And this is a board about fighting ignorance after all, so getting the facts right for the record is perfectly acceptable. I didn’t chastise anyone for misusing terms, but I thought it was worth mentioning, so I did. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/10 "2012-06-03T23:07:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > In other words, if there is a distinction, it’s not a dichotomy, the way you’ve characterized it. Something can be poisonous without being venomous (as in poisonous plants), but anything that is venomous is also poisonous. I can almost sort of agree with you if you want to put it in those terms. But I still think that if you’re going to call something poisonous, then it would be understandable to assume that it’s not both poisonous _and_ venomous, because if it were, you’d simply call it venomous. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/11 "2012-06-03T23:12:08Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > The Straight Dope: Taking votes on the facts since 1973. :rolleyes: You’re only saying that because you’re losing. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/12 "2012-06-03T23:27:38Z")
Not all venoms are poisonous if ingested. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/13 "2012-06-03T23:28:33Z")
I think poison and venom are different things, but poisonous and venomous are interchangeable. If you eat a venomous snake whole, are you envenomated or poisoned? Poisoned with venom, of course. If someone shoots you with one of those poison-dart-frog arrows, are you envenomated? Of course not, you’re poisoned with… well, poison. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/14 "2012-06-03T23:31:46Z")
I got 5 bucks that says Shakespeare described _people_ as being venomous, does that make it a zoological fact or should we consider context? Hmm, tough call. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/15 "2012-06-03T23:48:55Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > The Straight Dope: Taking votes on the facts since 1973. :rolleyes: I think polling English speakers on how they use English words is a pretty valid thing to do. It’s not like these words have some objective meaning outside of what native speakers of the language think they do. That said, whether an unscientific poll on the SDMB is indicative of anything or not is a different question.. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/16 "2012-06-03T23:58:22Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > If someone shoots you with one of those poison-dart-frog arrows, are you envenomated? Of course not, you’re poisoned with… well, poison. Well, you did get injected with it… ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/17 "2012-06-04T00:20:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Actually, since you are relying on Merriam-Webster for one of your cites (on venom), I should point out that their definitions both venomous and poisonous indicate that the terms are more-or-less synonyms: > > Bolding mine. > > If there is a distinction, it is that venomous is a subset of poisonous, applying to those poisonous animals that inject their poison or venom. So a rattlesnake is both poisonous and venomous. The original nitpick, in which you said that rattlesnakes “are not poisonous,” was clearly incorrect. > > In original usage, venomous could also apply to animals such as toads that merely contain poison, without injecting it. Nowadays that usage is somewhat obsolete. > > In other words, if there is a distinction, it’s not a dichotomy, the way you’ve characterized it. Something can be poisonous without being venomous (as in poisonous plants), but anything that is venomous is also poisonous. If the folks at Merriam-Webster indicate that the terms are more-or-less synonyms, then I will not gain-say them. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/18 "2012-06-04T00:22:01Z")
The difference is important. Words have meaning y’know ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/19 "2012-06-04T01:54:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If there is a distinction, it is that venomous is a subset of poisonous, applying to those poisonous animals that inject their poison or venom. So a rattlesnake is both poisonous and venomous. When I read the original statement by the OP in the linked thread, I thought basically this. Looking at more definitions online, the distinction seems even a little less than that. So to me, the OP’s nitpick in the original thread was incorrect. I wouldn’t say that there is _no_ distinction, though, so I’m not voting either way. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/20 "2012-06-04T02:06:25Z")
To me, “poison” sounds more generic than “venom”. So I have no problem calling a venomous snake a “poisonous snake”, but I wouldn’t call rat poison “rat venom”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972.md?page=2)