# I'm throwing down the gauntlet: Poison vs. Venom **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 3, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972 "2012-06-03T21:56:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/101 "2012-06-05T17:04:28Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > In my defense, I did open this thread specifically so as not to hijack the other one. 😛 Fair point. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/102 "2012-06-05T17:10:12Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Here’s the thing about this issue. You will almost NEVER hear the term “poisonous” used by any expert to refer to venomous animals. Animals that have an active venom delivery system are “venomous”, those that are generically toxic to consume or handle are “poisonous”. The distinction is actually important because it can make a huge difference on how the animal is handled and whether or not it may be consumed. > > Lionfish have spines that deliver venom, they are venomous. Puffer fish (fugu) are full of a toxin, they are poisonous. Lionfish may be eaten, you just need to be careful around the spines. Pufferfish are toxic in general and you can and will die if you eat them in anything but the most careful of preparations. > > Toads are venomous, they have venom glands that express a milky venom into the mouth of a predator. Poison Dart Frogs are poisonous; their entire skin is toxic and handling them improperly can kill you. > > Regardless of pedantry or english parlance, there is an important distinction to be made; particularly in dealing directly with animals. Team Venom. See above. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/103 "2012-06-05T18:26:44Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I’ve stated this before but you obviously missed it: just because someone uses the wrong term but you still understand what they meant, doesn’t mean the distinction doesn’t exist or doesn’t matter in general. What you fail to understand is that (although there _is_ a distinction,) centuries of common use mean that “poisonous” is simply _not_ the wrong term when applied to snakes or biting insects. Look, let’s define “poisonous”:[Collins:](http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/poisonous) 2) capable of killing or inflicting injury; venomous [McMillan: 1a) capable of producing poison _a poisonous snake_ [url=“[POISONOUS Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poisonous)”]Merriam-Webster]([Welcome to Macmillan Education Customer Support](http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/poisonous)): 2) : having the properties or effects of poison : venomous [Webster’s:](http://www.yourdictionary.com/poisonous) capable of injuring or killing by or as by poison; containing, or having the effects of, a poison; toxic; venomous [Webster’s 1828:](http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/poisonous) Venomous; having the qualities of poison; corrupting; impairing soundness of purity. [Webster’s 1913:](http://www.wordnik.com/words/poisonous) Having the qualities or effects of poison; venomous; baneful; corrupting;Stubbornly insisting that the word “poisonous” does not carry the meaning it has been carrying perfectly well in conversation, [literature](http://books.google.ca/books?id=YPRDVugn2SwC&pg=PA71&#v=onepage&q&f=false), and [academia](http://books.google.ca/books?id=aeoyAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false) for centuries is perfectly absurd. You’ve looked to the etymology of “poison” as though it invalidated its centuries of common use. To use this sort of reasoning, you might also say that “venom” is the wrong word to apply to the poison secreted by animals for defensive use, because before it took on its more familiar specific meaning, it signified _any toxic substance_, and before it signified _any toxic substance_, it simply meant “potion,” and before it came to mean “potion,” it meant specifically _love potion_. (Referencing Venus.) So in the same sense that poison is the wrong word for a toxin that isn’t ingested, venom is the wrong word for any substance without a history of use as an aphrodisiac. Spanish flies are _venomous_. Of course, we don’t use specious arguments like these as though they had any bearing on what a word actually means, because that’s just silly. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/104 "2012-06-05T19:18:22Z")
Yeah, basically the English language is highly adaptable and variable. Context is supremely important. If I’m a science teacher who has a 10 question quiz for a group of 7th graders, in which they have to match a set of animals from Column B to the words “Poisonous” and “Venomous” in Column A, then animals like poison dart frogs would obviously be drawn to “Poisonous” and animals like Hornets and Rattlesnakes would be mapped to “Venomous.” But that doesn’t mean anything other than that **anywhere in the world** is wrong. In many contexts the word “ship and boat” are totally interchangeable, in strict nautical terminology, these words often have very specific definitions (variable based on age in which you are talking about…ships were defined based on masts at one point and then later based on displacement.) But it’s never right to come in and say **um that’s a SHIP you’re talking about, not a boat**. I mean it’s fine as a good natured semi-joking comment, but you aren’t actually unambiguously correct to do that anymore than the person who is calling the large oceangoing vessel a boat is incorrect to use that word. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/105 "2012-06-05T19:34:45Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I’ve stated this before but you obviously missed it: just because someone uses the wrong term but you still understand what they meant, doesn’t mean the distinction doesn’t exist or doesn’t matter in general. Nobody talks in general. Everyone talks in specific instances. If in a specific instance the audience understood the speaker’s thought, then it was a good choice of words. There is no other rational measurement for communication. Sure, there are certain mystic orthodoxies, viz. the Church of Safire etc., that disagree. But once you start appealing to superstition, incense, and high ritual, all bets are off. We rationalists recognize that words exist only as vehicles for thoughts. When they carry those thoughts successfully, communication succeeds; otherwise, not. The very idea of “the wrong term,” as you use it above, is conceptually incoherent. It’s like saying that the route I drove to work was the wrong route, even though it started at my house and got me to work successfully. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/106 "2012-06-06T18:36:32Z")
Never trust a big butt and a smile. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/107 "2012-06-06T22:09:31Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I really don’t get why you guys, **Colibri** especially, think that something that is a basic part of the biology you would learn in junior high, if not earlier, is so completely meaningless. You learned the difference between “poisonous” and “venomous” in grade school biology? I’ve taken lots of bio in different schools, from basic grade school worksheets to AP and college courses, and the only reason I know the two aren’t technically synonyms is from outside reading. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/108 "2012-06-06T22:22:11Z")
We always knew **BigT** was _special_. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/109 "2012-06-06T23:31:00Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > You learned the difference between “poisonous” and “venomous” in grade school biology? As I was cleaning up my third grade classroom yesterday, I came across a **National Geographic for Kids** all about poisonous animals. They used both “venomous snake” and “poisonous snake” to describe creatures like rattlesnakes. So even in grade school biology, “poisonous” may be used in that context. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/110 "2012-06-07T00:56:44Z")
The problem is that words do not have a copyright by any particular group, either experts in a given field or the common man. Complicating the matter is that the word usage changes, as several people have pointed out, and that the common usage of the term “poisonous snake(s)” predates modern biology, with _its_ particular definitions of poison and venom. Any particular field will more carefully define terminology than what the masses do. Does this make that definition “correct” and all others “incorrect?” If so, what must be done with cases where the same object is called one term in one field and referred to with another name in a separate field? Which definition is the “absolute correct” one, in which the other’s may be scoffed at and ridiculed? Or does a language permit words to have different meanings when used in different situations, and allow both to be correct? As the word is not copyrighted, and there is no ultimate court to rule on usage, the latter is the case, and both usages are correct. So, while it’s tempting to believe that when there is a difference between the lay definition and the expert definition, this is no more different than the case between two expert definitions. Hence, calling the commonly accepted usage “wrong” in the case is wrong. To insist otherwise is to fail to rise above the level of my toddler who now proudly pronounces all new rules she has learned. And, as others have pointed out, the poll does not accurately reflect the true question, which should be “Is the term “poisonous snake” correct or incorrect in all circumstances?” The result of that question would be more interesting; although similar to the results of the anecdotal poll, “How long is the emperor’s nose?” no more enlightening. For that, you need to go no further than the experts in the field of language who periodically publish their rulings in big volumes called “dictionaries.” Come back when you can get OED to reject the term you dislike. We’ll welcome you then. . Anything else is simply masturbation. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/111 "2012-06-07T01:07:15Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > Come back when you can get OED to reject the term you dislike. We’ll welcome you then. Actually while I agree with your overall analysis of the situation I just thought I would point out that the OED is not among the dictionaries cited thus far and it does make the distinction. > [@](#): > > poison > n noun > 1 a substance that causes death or harm when introduced into or absorbed by a living organism. > 2 something that has a destructive or corrupting influence. > 3 Chemistry a substance that reduces the activity of a catalyst. > 4 Physics an impurity that retards nuclear fission by absorbing neutrons. > n verb > 1 administer poison to or contaminate with poison. > 2 corrupt or harm. > > DERIVATIVES > poisoner noun > > ORIGIN > Middle English: from Old French poison ‘magic potion’, from Latin potio(n-) ‘potion’, related to potare ‘to drink’. > [@](#): > > venom > n noun > 1 poisonous fluid secreted by animals such as snakes and scorpions and typically injected into prey or aggressors by biting or stinging. > 2 extreme malice and bitterness. > > DERIVATIVES > venomed adjective > > ORIGIN > Middle English: from Old French venim, variant of venin, from an alteration of Latin venenum ‘poison’. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/112 "2012-06-07T01:14:54Z")
But the OED doesn’t make them wholly incompatible words (just like all the other dictionaries, it has separate entries for both poisonous and venomous–some of the dictionaries actually defined the word poisonous with the word venomous showing how interchangeable these words are), in the first definition of poisonous the OED definition says “introduced to or absorbed by.” Well, is not a bee stinger or a snake’s fang a system which can “introduce” their poison to the body? If you’ve been stung by a bee or bitten by a snake have you not had poison “introduced” into you? ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/113 "2012-06-07T01:51:49Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > But the OED doesn’t make them wholly incompatible words (just like all the other dictionaries, it has separate entries for both poisonous and venomous–some of the dictionaries actually defined the word poisonous with the word venomous showing how interchangeable these words are), in the first definition of poisonous the OED definition says “introduced to or absorbed by.” > > Well, is not a bee stinger or a snake’s fang a system which can “introduce” their poison to the body? If you’ve been stung by a bee or bitten by a snake have you not had poison “introduced” into you? Right but then it goes on to define venom as a ‘poison’ that is typically injected via bite or stinger. Anyway you’re preaching to the choir… I agree that in this and almost every context when discussing snakes the words are interchangeable. I just also agree with the OP and English purists that they aren’t always interchangeable. We have two words with two meanings to communicate two different things. There are distinctions but they are insignificant in many contexts. It confuses the issue even more that we are talking about the adjective poison (e.g. poisonous snake) rather than the noun poison because a person can be poisoned by venom, ideas, polluted air, etc. ---
**Author:** ![AdmiralCrunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@AdmiralCrunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdmiralCrunch)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/114 "2012-06-07T03:01:57Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > I just also agree with the OP and English purists that they aren’t always interchangeable. That’s not the issue. The OP says that venomous and poisonous are _never_ interchangeable. They have disjoint meanings. The Venn diagram has no overlapping region. So when someone says that venomous snakes are poisonous, they are wrong\*. Like the trusty OED: > [@OED](#): > > poisonous, adj. > > 1. Containing, or of the nature of, poison; having the properties of a poison; venomous. > > … > venomous, adj. > > 1. > > a. Of animals, esp. snakes, or their parts: Secreting venom; having the power or property of communicating venom by means of bites or stings; inflicting or capable of inflicting poisonous wounds in this way. > Formerly in general literary use, now chiefly restricted to certain species of poisonous snakes. **Rigmarole** ’s position is that the OED is incorrect. If one wishes to know the meaning of a word, check with the Arizona Game & Fish Department of Wildlife. \*Except in cases where snakes are both venomous and poisonous. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/115 "2012-06-07T03:03:20Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > It confuses the issue even more that we are talking about the adjective poison (e.g. poisonous snake) rather than the noun poison because a person can be poisoned by venom, ideas, polluted air, etc. Now welcome to the aha moment. The original objection was to the adjective poison. This is quickly demonstrated: > [@Is a rattlesnake bite always/usually fatal?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-rattlesnake-bite-always-usually-fatal/623913/13): > > ULTRA-PEDANTRY ALERT! > > > [@jtgain](#): > > > > I spend time in a rural area and have never been bitten by a poisonous snake, but have heard of the deadliness of them. But how deadly are they? > > > [@Colibri](#): > > > > You have to be fairly unlucky to die of the bite of a poisonous snake, even if you are bitten. > > Snakes are not poisonous, they are venomous. > > Poison is ingested/absorbed/inhaled, while venom is injected via bite or sting. jtgain and Colibri said the objection was incorrect (look at the posts linked in the OP) > [@Rigamarole](#): > > (I was originally going to post this in GD, but that forum doesn’t allow polls and I wanted to have one) > > So in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=653926), someone asks about “ **poisonous snakes** ”, and in the name of pedantry, [I gently remind them](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15127455&postcount=13) of the difference between poison and venom. Then **Blake** [comes along](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15127496&postcount=14) and attempts to refute my argument by claiming that poison and venom essentially have the same meaning and are interchangeable terms. [Colibri agrees](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15128248&postcount=35). [I provide two cites](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15127971&postcount=30) which clearly state that venom is directly injected while poison is inhaled or ingested, backing up my original claim. But of course these go ignored. > > So what say ye? Are you Team Poison or Team Venom? He’s changed the goal posts. The objection was over the term “poisonous snakes” and not “poison” or venom." Both \*\*jtgain \*\*and \*\*Colibri \*\*argued that “poisonous snakes” is accectable but **Rigamarole** has argued that since the respective nouns are defined as such, by certain experts, that jitgain, Colibri, the OED, as well as the rest of the fucking world is wrong. “Poisonous snakes” is perfectly correctly used in the circumstances of the linked thread. To create a thread based on a false dichonomy is not only overly pedantric but has crossed into a dishonest arguement. The two other posters were not arguing what **Rigamarole** is claiming they were. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/116 "2012-06-07T04:25:12Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I doubt it, he’s probably saying it because, if as he says, it’s a common inaccuracy proving that a lot of people here also have this inaccurate belief does nothing to support your argument. > > In fact I find your decision to run a poll on this to be pretty piss poor, because if you really wanted a discussion about the facts you wouldn’t have put a poll up there as some sort of bullshit “evidence” that your side was correct. > > What’s really important to note is the original pedantry you engaged in was factually wrong, and thus makes you look foolish to have done it. It is essentially inarguable fact that a rattlesnake is poisonous, and you said that was not an appropriate term. You’re factually wrong there. > > On the issue of whether all poisons and venoms can be referred to interchangeably I have no real side in that fight. In personal usage I’d only use venom to refer to poison produced and delivered by animals, but the dictionary definition points to a lot more ambiguity on that matter. > > What’s really important to note is when you said this: > > You were **100%, unambiguously and factually incorrect, period.** So I’m not too impressed that after having your hand smacked (after making a self-identified pedantic comment) you’ve decided to start a poll to try and disprove **Blake**. That’s actually mildly embarrassing I think, because you were quite honestly making a bald-faced factual assertion that snakes are not poisonous, and I think some degree of embarrassment over being called out on how wrong you were on that count is the reason you decided to keep arguing over the sideshow about whether the word poison and venom are more generally interchangeable and then decided to open up a poll. > > I think you highly suspected that most people share the common (and probably incorrect as demonstrated by **Blake** and **Colibri** ) belief that you were putting forth so you figured a poll would help you out. > > While I have more faith in the Dope, I’m willing to bet that in society at large I could make the argument “did you know blood is blue inside the body?” and probably take a random poll of 10 people in the street and have a majority agree with me. That doesn’t prove that blood is blue, just that a majority of people believe a very stupid and very old inaccuracy that has perpetuated for decades. That isn’t how one proves one’s point. That’s some serious ownage. Pwnage even (do the kids still say that?). > [@Rigamarole](#): > > Meaning of language is determined by usage, and the people have spoken. Give it up buddy. Wow. You really think this poll has actually has determined the usage? That people don’t use the term “poisonous snake” to mean “venomous snake”? Really? > [@Toucanna](#): > > @ **Rigamarole** : I’m behind you all the way on your crusade, I’m actually on the side of educating people with regards the difference in meanings. But if he’s trying to persuade people to change their actual usage, I suspect he won’t be successful. And pedants, especially ones who desperately cling to their pedantry when proven wrong, don’t seem to me to be the type who are trying to educate. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/117 "2012-06-07T04:32:11Z")
Yeah, I’m all for saying things like, “Often venomous is used to refer to animals that convey their toxin via a bite or a sting, while poisonous simply refers to anything that produces a toxin.” just to clear the air as it were, or if I were writing a paper or an article, I might make a note that I’d be using this particular dichotomy in my writing, but I wouldn’t expect others to necessarily follow it. I wonder, though, under Rigamarole’s definition, are spitting cobras venomous? I imagine they can bite if they want but if they just spit at you, have you really been poisoned as opposed to envenomed? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/118 "2012-06-07T07:46:53Z")
Here’s another example of poisonous being used as an adjective, by [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poisonous) > [@](#): > > Definition of POISONOUS > 1: destructive, harmful > 2: **having the properties or effects of poison : venomous** > 3: spiteful, malicious > — poi·son·ous·ly adverb > > Examples of POISONOUS > > ``` > Chocolate is poisonous to dogs. > **This species of spider is extremely poisonous.** > > ``` > > First Known Use of POISONOUS > 1565 > Related to POISONOUS > Synonyms: envenomed, poison, poisoned, toxic, venomous > Antonyms: nonpoisonous, nontoxic, nonvenomous (my bolding) Looking at the second example, which I’ve bolded, poisonous is used exactly the same way as has been called wrong. With M-W’s blessings on this usage, what exactly is the argument about? That the dictionaries are incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/119 "2012-06-07T09:29:20Z")
I agree with Colobri in the sense that not all poisons are venom, but all venoms are poisons. Although I’m not sure if there’s a distinction between poison and toxin and other terms for harmful substances. Is a prion a poison? There might be a meaningful distinction based not only on method of delivery but also on method of harm. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972/120 "2012-06-07T12:35:27Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I wonder, though, under Rigamarole’s definition, are spitting cobras venomous? I imagine they can bite if they want but if they just spit at you, have you really been poisoned as opposed to envenomed? You could make a linguistic argument either way. An introduction of venom into the system via the eyes, or other mucus membranes is still referred to as an envenomation by medical staff and those who work with animals though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-throwing-down-the-gauntlet-poison-vs-venom/623972.md?page=7)