# I'm tired of right-wingers complaining. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 20, 2004, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736 "2004-12-20T03:58:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/41 "2004-12-21T00:46:39Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > In the United States, the First Amendment makes publicly-funded holiday displays a bit of a landmine. Either all faiths have to be represented equally, meaning a creche, a menorah, and a symbol of Ramadan, or public money can’t be used at all. Even a privately-funded creche on public property is a problem, because it gives the appearance of government involvement. So most governments don’t bother at all, because a lawsuit (or even the threat of a lawsuit) is expensive to defend, and it’s easier to leave it to the churches anyway. Thank you for that clarification, **MsRobyn**. That does put a whole different perspective on things, although it seems to be a global phenomenon that the “safe” _Happy Holidays_ mindset is taking over. There are some schools here in Australia now with no Xmas decorations or themes for the kids’ lessons. for the little kids especially, this atheist finds that a bit sad. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/42 "2004-12-21T00:58:18Z")
No reason for sadness. No reason for religious themes in schools. When the Christian kids, full of the Spirit of Christmas get home, the family can cozy up together and sing hymns, invite the pagan, athiest, Bhuddist neighbors over to share in the joy. At home. Where it _should_ be. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/43 "2004-12-21T01:10:00Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > That does put a whole different perspective on things, although it seems to be a global phenomenon that the “safe” _Happy Holidays_ mindset is taking over. Do _you_ want to be the guy who has to say “Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Great Kwanzaa, Joyous Solstic, Dong Zhi, _Dies Natalis Invicti Solis,_ Good Makara Sankramana, Joyous Soyal, Merry Tongji, and have a nice Shohgatsu!” to every visitor at your store? Save a tongue, stick to “Happy holidays.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/44 "2004-12-21T01:10:16Z")
I’m tired of the full-spectrum of complainers. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/45 "2004-12-21T01:19:58Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > Thank you for that clarification, **MsRobyn**. That does put a whole different perspective on things, although it seems to be a global phenomenon that the “safe” _Happy Holidays_ mindset is taking over. There are some schools here in Australia now with no Xmas decorations or themes for the kids’ lessons. for the little kids especially, this atheist finds that a bit sad. Sit right down, fix yourself a drink, and listen to the tragic tale of Christmas, Robin’s High-School Style. Keep in mind that I went to public high school. When I was in 10th grade, the gym teachers put up a Christmas-only display in the hallway to the girl’s gym. We’re not talking some Christmas trees and stars and stuff, we’re talking Yule Logs, crosses, nativity scenes, the whole ball of wax. The whole thing was given this caption: Jesus is the Reason for the Season. The teacher responsible for this display was asked by some of the students to please change it to reflect other religions, because there were Jewish students, Hindu students, Muslim students, and other students besides Christian ones. The teacher refused. The vice-principal was consulted next. Meanwhile, other students had become interested in the debate and came aboard. The vice-principal hemmed and hawed. Soon after, parents became interested. At this point, the principal asked the teacher to change the display or take it down. It was taken down. The lesson to be learned from this is that religion is too divisive an issue to allow in the public schools. Your lord and savior is my Magical Sky Pixie. Even in a cultural context, it can be difficult to separate one’s personal beliefs from a larger issue. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/46 "2004-12-21T01:25:59Z")
I don’t see Christmahanukwanzakah™®(Virgin Corp.) being so much a religious issue as a _tolerance_ issue. Righties today see tolerance itself as a corrosive force. They don’t want to be wishy-washy, namby-pamby or PC because such behaviors are seen as weak and valueless. They’re not pushing Christianity so much as they want _everybody on the same page._ So I think the goal is NOT “theocracy”, but really something more sinister (because it’s easier to achieve): a tyranny of the majority. We’re to find cohesion and community in closing ranks and persecuting minorities, dissidents, and deves. Righties must _really_ be feeling their oats this season, because I even hear them bitching about the phrase **SEASONS GREETINGS** , as strung in lights across countless buildings since time immemorial. Has it occurred to any of these idiots that the practice came about because it saves you changing the lights on 12/26 to read **HAPPY NEW YEAR**? Or is this (more likely) an attempt to manipulate public opinion by revising history, along the lines of adding _under God_ to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/47 "2004-12-21T01:31:17Z")
I’m tired of people who lump everyone into two groups, “right-wing” or “left-wing,” as if people only come in two distinct shades. I’m equally sick of people who go out of their way to find offense. I’m Catholic. If someone inadvertently wished me “Happy Hannakuh,” I’d graciously accept the sentiment in the spirit in which it was given and wish them the same. As far as Jesus in the classroom, I wanted my kids to hear “God” uttered in school on a regular basis and to be able to pray openly should they feel the need. I want them sing Christmas carols that actually mention Jesus and Mary. So I send my children to a parochial school. There is no reason why some little Muslim or Jewish kid should be made to feel out of place in school or that they are sloppy seconds to the main entree. You want Junior to see a nativity, then take him/her to church or display one in your home. But don’t expect the government mandated school to teach him religion because there are lots of different religions represented in this country. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/48 "2004-12-21T01:49:40Z")
I have lived in a blue state for eighteen years, but I was born in a red state (I’ll give you a hint which one: it rhymes with ‘Best Lavinia’). I’ve met plenty of people here who are surprised to learn that Jesus probably wasn’t born on December 25. Most simply shrug and go, “Well, whaddaya know?” The ones who insist on knock-down, drag-out, “You-take-that-_back!_” arguments are invariably fellow red-to-blue immigrants. > [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > I’ve yet to meet one person that actually believes Jesus was born on 12/25. It’s pretty common knowledge among Christians I know that it was more like the end of September. > > I’ve never lived in a blue state, though, maybe that’s where they’re all hanging out? ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/49 "2004-12-21T02:01:43Z")
I don’t understand the hubbub about saying “Merry Christmas” as it’s become such a secular holiday. Fuck it, though, I’ll save my opinions on the matter for the airing of grievances on the 23rd. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/50 "2004-12-21T02:01:55Z")
I had something to say on this issue, but at the moment I’m simply too upset. I happened to hear how Bill O’Reilly is being mercilessly hounded and persecuted by relentless secular fanatics, perhaps from the radical-militant wing of the Unitarian Church. I am bereft that this good man is so brutally treated. I propose that we of the SDMB take up a collection and send him some batterys for his vibrator. And some lubricant. I’m sure we have some Dopers who have some, ah, expertise in these matters, and can advise. Its the least we can do for such a martyr. What say you?! Can I get an “Amen!”. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/51 "2004-12-21T02:34:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Flap. Flap flap. Flap. (Peer at armpit.) Well, maybe they’re not too fond of you, either! ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/52 "2004-12-21T02:38:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I had something to say on this issue, but at the moment I’m simply too upset. I happened to hear how Bill O’Reilly is being mercilessly hounded and persecuted by relentless secular fanatics, perhaps from the radical-militant wing of the Unitarian Church. Not to mention the anti-falaphiles, those tight-asses who feel hummulingus is an abomination. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/53 "2004-12-21T03:03:55Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > I don’t understand the hubbub about saying “Merry Christmas” as it’s become such a secular holiday. Fuck it, though, I’ll save my opinions on the matter for the airing of grievances on the 23rd. Are there also going to be feats of strength? ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/54 "2004-12-21T03:40:35Z")
Everytime I see one of these, I seriously wonder - where the hell are you guys hanging out that you are seeing the “modern theocracy,” blah blah blah. Because I don’t see it, and I don’t hear it. My neighbors aren’t bitching about how they can’t reenact the passion on the steps of the Capitol Building. I haven’t seen, nor have I had friends, acquaintances, or anyone else I even remotely know who have seen, people “disappeared” under the evil conservative Patriot Act. The gubmint has not yet tapped my phones (at least I do not hear wierd clicking sounds), and I have not yet seen any federal agents peering into my bedroom window to determine what I’m doing (I wish they would; so kinky!). All I hear about are people bitching about how the U.S. has become a horrible theocracy, while everyone I’ve talked to that I consider rational, sane, and basically not a whiny sky-is-falling 8th year college student type comments on how it seems blandly similar to what it was like 5 or 10 years ago. I’m not saying I’m really happy with the Bush administration, because I’m not, but this particular topic always has the feel of a certain subset of people who want something to be true so they’ll have something to complain about. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/55 "2004-12-21T03:53:40Z")
Your friends are barking up the wrong tree. Because IT’S REALLY NOT ABOUT RELIGION. That’s a side issue, designed to distract from the real changes. These changes are cultural, and gradual, and subtle, and come from strings pulled and balls set rolling quite a little while ago. If the left doesn’t find a context to understand this and a way to address it, and soon, it may find itself totally out of the political discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/56 "2004-12-21T04:48:36Z")
Well, I was going to come in here and bitch about lumping right-wing and christian together and then go on a bit about how being an athiest myself and still conservative regardless that I could care less about people doing drugs, getting abortions, sleeping with the same sex or barn yard animals, or doing whatever makes them happy as long as it doesn’t hurt someone else without their consent. Or that I believe everyone should get a helping hand when they need it and that free secular education is the only way to keep us from returning to the dark ages. No, the only thing that makes me conservative is one thing and one thing only. Let me keep as much of the money as I make as possible because there isn’t one politician I trust more than myself to spend it responsibly. But all that doesn’t matter and has suddenly become meaningless and irrelevant in the grand scheme of the universe when I came across this item: > [@NDP](#): > > … Mint M&M’s. WTF!!! How come no one informed me there was such a thing and where the hell do I get them! (Uzi who loves all combinations of chocolate and mintyness) ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/57 "2004-12-21T04:56:08Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > And **continuity error** , how the hell is a wish to keep the traditional Christmas alive equal to “nothing short of a theocracy”? Ease of the hyperbole there, you’ll have an eye out. But the “traditional” Christmas can be alive, if people want it to be. Nobody’s stopping these people from celebrating the holiday as they see fit. There’s no Secular Patrol breaking into their houses and crushing their nativity scenes. But they are trying to stop us (secular/non-Christian people) from celebrating it too, as we see fit. They don’t want to share the holiday, even though there’s been a solstice celebration for a lot longer than there’s been a Christmas, and Christmas “belongs” to non-religious people just as much as it does Christians. Besides, it’s not just Christmas, they’re trying to get the theocracy started everywhere. Bans on gay marriage? Taxpayer money going to fund religious homeless shelters where the people have to accept Jesus to eat? It’s already started. Today at the bank, a teller wished me a Merry Christmas. Was I offended, like the people in the OP were offended at “Happy Holidays”? No, of course not. Because it’s not a big deal. But the only people I ever see getting worked up over which greeting they receive are “Jesus is the Reason for the Season” Christians. It’s Christians who are writing article after article lambasting the people who are just trying to make the holiday season all-inclusive with generic store greetings and non-sectarian decorations. Again, you’d think that non-Christians/seculars are trying to take the religious aspect of Christmas away. People are perfectly free to practice their idea of Christmas… in their own homes, as well as their own privately owned businesses and land. Is it really that big a deal that you can’t put a manger (or a menorah, or a Kwanzaa symbol) in a public park? Like the OP said, they want it all, and then some. And I know Christian theocrats, my parents’ neighbors. But those people are an entire Pit thread unto themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/58 "2004-12-21T05:04:06Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > How come no one informed me there was such a thing and where the hell do I get them! They’re making mint Hershey Kisses now, too. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/59 "2004-12-21T05:35:10Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > They’re making mint Hershey Kisses now, too. Aaaargggghhh! And I’m stuck in the desert until January! \ [Homer]"“No beer and no TV makes Homer something-something.”, "O spiteful one, show me who to smite and they shall be smoten!!![/Homer] ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736/60 "2004-12-21T06:14:41Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > Righties today see tolerance itself as a corrosive force. Someone has to take this and write it across the sky in blazing letters ten miles long. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-right-wingers-complaining/280736.md?page=4)