Actually, I was probably born right-leaning myself. I grew up in the right wing christian culture and was conservative until a few years ago, when I met the youth pastor at my church. He was a liberal, and I was confused. To summarize how it went:
Me: How can you be a liberal and a christian?
Him: Why?
Me: Well, don’t you want to ban christianity and etc. etc. etc.?
Him: No, actually, I believe this. It goes with the bible because of this.
Me: Hmm… that makes sense
(Does a spin-change into a liberal)
Actually, it went a lot different from that, but it gets the jist. And it’s off-topic too. I just thought I’d say that my politics aren’t what I was born with, and add in the coolness that I actually became a liberal because of church.
Okay, now that I’ve actually read the article and it turns out that it’s not a joke article like I thought, I should also say that my dad grew up in a democratic family and became a republican.
And I’m the only one in my immediate family who is liberal. My older brother and both of my parents are conservative, although my older brother is starting to lean more moderate.
It’s the same with someone I worked with. When he was hired 4.5 years ago he was very conservative. Then over time he started applying his belief system to his politics. It took awhile. He would say little things and I would tilt my head and say to myself, “What? Did I hear that right?” Then I would go to the pastor and say, “Did so-and-so just say what I thought he said?” Finally, he came all the way over to the other side. It’s been so refreshing to watch.
We only have one person on our staff here who is very conservative. She has all these stickers on her car. So I put a couple of stickers on my car and park next to her. My latest one is “OHIO 2004–Where Bigotry became a Moral Value & Discrimination became Constitutional.” Well, that one’s on my bulletin board. My husband hates bumper stickers.
No one had thought about this at all until the reactionaries started whining. I thought a privately owned store could have its clerks say anything it damned well pleased - but no, you Commies probably want a law mandating Merry Christmas.
I don’t know what’s wrong with Happy Holidays - New Years is coming up too.
If Falwell and his ilk got all but the right kind of Christians locked up, they’d be bitchin’ about the guards not having Christmas off. You can’t please some people.
I won’t comment on the religious right bitching about stuff (on this thread), but I do get sick of Christians – whatever their political bent – complaining about Jesus being the Reason for the Season. These people have no clue as to the origins of their most holy day, and seem to begrudge even the slightest good will towards men who do not fall in lockstep with their beliefs.
Just yesterday I read a letter to the editor of a small newspaper in which the writer lambasted atheists who had the audacity to put up trees and decorate cookies and take the 25th off without so much as paying lip service to the Savior who had so graciously arranged it all. He seemed to think that non-Christians should not be allowed to feel any good will, nor drink even dram of egg nog. “In short”, he concluded, “I hope you atheists are forced to work on the 25th! Merry Christmas!”
Telling these people that Christ was not really born on December 25th only makes it worse. They do not want to hear it, they won’t believe it, and it will only serve to piss them off further. Not to mention, they may try to save you.
I’m an atheist. I don’t take Christmas Day off work: I just take midwinter’s day off, but take it off a few days late for the convenience of my employer. And I enjoy all the other midwinter festival activities, like giving presents, putting up a decorated tree, and over-eating.
Tell them that for most of the history of Christianity, the real Christian December holiday was December 6th. Saint Nicholas day. Yep, good Christians celebrated not Christ, but Jolly Old St. Nick.
If that doesn’t do it, you can always bring up the fact that Christians often banned 12/25 celebrations, and it was drunkards and whores that kept the holy tradition alive for so many centuries.
As a marischino cherry on the banana splits of their rage, mention that the Roman pagan Sun-god Mithras is the real reason for the season!
Yeesh, you people hang around a bunch of pain-in-the-ass Christians.
My mom, for instance, is a pretty devout “church lady” type (with a heavy dollop of general crackpot thrown in) and she’s always the one telling everyone else that Christ was not born in December 25th. It doesn’t seem to piss anyone off when she does this. In fact, I can’t recall ever hearing any fellow Christian I know get all pissed off when someone mentions that fact. (Add to the mix the Armenian co-workers I knew who celebrated Christmas on January 6th . . . )
I’m not doubting that some people are pains in the ass, but somehow I’ve managed to not meet too many of them myself—at least not when it comes to Christmas. Lucky me, huh?
And while I’m here, can I say that while I think it’s over-the-top to whine about every nit-picky detail about how Christmas is celebrated by others (it never occured to me to get bent out of shape that atheists celebrate), that it is absurd to start calling that green tree with the pretty balls and lights and tinsel on it something other than a “Christmas tree”? Because despite its pagan origins, that’s what it is commonly called by about everyone these days, and for a very long time. All of a sudden calling it a “Holiday” tree just sounds so . . . lame. (And yet I believe that is what the White House is doing this year.) So while I can’t say that I’m deeply offended, I just think it’s stupid.
yosemite, I swear, if I could avoid the woman, I would. But my mother keeps inviting her to family functions. I wish your mom would have a chat with my cousin.
She’d probably be less rabid and toned down if she’d been religious her whole life. However, she didn’t “find Jesus*” til about 3 years ago, and she’s on a mission.
*I did not think asking “did he fall through the couch cusions with the loose change?” when she announced “I have found Jesus!” would elicit a sermon. Silly me.
I think what Lilith Fair means is that right-wingers (read conservative christians) have been in power for some time now, so they don’t deserve to complain about the way things are. A weak correlation to the main body of the OP, but I think that was the basic idea behind it. Just FYI.
I too find it funny that these people wave the flag and beat their breasts about freedom, but what they really mean is freedom for christians.
Lilith Fair, I am a right winger, yet I am an atheist too (hey, it happens). I also think you are a whiny non-event.
What the fuck is wrong with a manger scene going up downtown? Do you not live in a multi-cultural society? Don’t get me wrong - I don’t have much truck with a lot of stuff Christians go on with, but they have the right to celebrate Christmas (and the rest of us enjoy the cultural aspects of it too). Christian symbols about the place bother me not a jot. I just treat them as I would treat a billboard advertising products I never buy. No biggie. And before you say “but it’s the city funding this stuff with my tax dollars”, the city funds lots of stuff I never use.
How do you feel about Channukah, Ramadan etc (or are those cool and you get the chance to play your world music albums, making them acceptable)?
And continuity error, how the hell is a wish to keep the traditional Christmas alive equal to “nothing short of a theocracy”? Ease of the hyperbole there, you’ll have an eye out.
I’ve yet to meet one person that actually believes Jesus was born on 12/25. It’s pretty common knowledge among Christians I know that it was more like the end of September.
I’ve never lived in a blue state, though, maybe that’s where they’re all hanging out?
In the United States, the First Amendment makes publicly-funded holiday displays a bit of a landmine. Either all faiths have to be represented equally, meaning a creche, a menorah, and a symbol of Ramadan, or public money can’t be used at all. Even a privately-funded creche on public property is a problem, because it gives the appearance of government involvement. So most governments don’t bother at all, because a lawsuit (or even the threat of a lawsuit) is expensive to defend, and it’s easier to leave it to the churches anyway.
(The First Amendment to the American Constitution is this:
) (Bolding of relevant parts is mine.)
To simplify the point further, the government can’t fund a nativity scene or have one on city-owned property, but it can’t keep a church or private individual from having one on private property, either.
Basically, in the US, this gets into the argument of how tax dollars should be spent. In my view, my tax money (for me, that is not an insignificant amount; I live in a state and county with high taxes) should not be used for religious displays of any kind. There are enough churches, synagogues and mosques in the US to have an assload of religious decorations every December. The city doesn’t need to add one more.
