# I'm tired of Socialized Fire Fighting! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 14, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373 "2009-08-14T02:25:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/201 "2009-08-16T22:19:37Z")
Monkeys love fat, its hard wired. Out in the hunter-gather, fat is very rare, and if you find some, your body screams “Get some more! Now, dammit!” People who eat right eat as an act of will, organic is a word that means brown, crumbly, and tasteless. Tofu bites it. If somebody wanted to invest a metric buttload of money, maybe, just maybe, there is a way to make not-fat taste like fat. But the real thing is much cheaper to produce, and there is no risk of investing in cold fusion or perpetual emotion. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/202 "2009-08-17T01:59:31Z")
Oh, and just to clarify something: someone might wonder why I brought up Catholic school earlier: because when I was there, we learned all about how it’s our duty to help those who are poor, the less fortunate, those who are in need, etc. God, I can’t remember HOW many religion classes we had on that theme. NEVER were we told that we should look down on them, or that people are poor because of their own fault – because they’re stupid and lazy. :rolleyes: Nor were we told that they’re always fat, and like fatty foods. Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread: “It was once said that the moral test of Government is how that Government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.” -Hubert Humphrey ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/203 "2009-08-17T02:13:46Z")
Well, if Hubert Humphrey heard it from someone else that certainly settles it for me. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/204 "2009-08-17T05:30:08Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Damn I’ve envious. I have a very slow metabolism, and I have to watch every ounce I consume. I eschew all fried foods, and I can’t eat foods I love (e.g. ice cream). It’s a constant, daily struggle. But I’m 41, and I don’t want to be the stereotypical “short, bald, fat guy.” I can’t do anything about being short and bald, but I \*can \*do something about the fat. May be you are worrying to much about something you can’t fix? If your family line has a certain body type, odds are you will never look like a superhero, anymore than I will. At least treat yourself once in a while. After all, some day we will all be older than dirt and will all look like shit anyway. Time marches on, across our face 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/205 "2009-08-17T11:14:26Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh, and just to clarify something: someone might wonder why I brought up Catholic school earlier: because when I was there, we learned all about how it’s our duty to help those who are poor, the less fortunate, those who are in need, etc. God, I can’t remember HOW many religion classes we had on that theme. I was taught the same thing. And I do help the poor. The difference between me and you… you believe people should be _ **forced** _ at prison-point to help the poor, whereas I believe it should be voluntary. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/206 "2009-08-17T11:18:34Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > May be you are worrying to much about something you can’t fix? If your family line has a certain body type, odds are you will never look like a superhero, anymore than I will. At least treat yourself once in a while. > > After all, some day we will all be older than dirt and will all look like shit anyway. Time marches on, across our face 😃 Well perhaps. 🙂 I admit I do have a fear of becoming fat. I see _so_ many people my age who are obese, and I say to myself, “I _really really_ don’t want to end up like that.” So I started educating myself on nutrition and exercise. I found out it was fairly simple. The biggest challenge was separating truth from BS. There is a _ **lot** _ of politically correct nonsense and pseudoscience out there when it comes to diet and nutrition… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/207 "2009-08-17T13:45:21Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I was taught the same thing. And I do help the poor. The difference between me and you… you believe people should be _ **forced** _ at prison-point to help the poor, whereas I believe it should be voluntary. I believe that if one wishes to live in a society, and therefore enjoy the fruits of said society, one should pay the dues necessary to keep that society functioning in a manner that most benefits as many in that society as possible. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/208 "2009-08-17T14:11:49Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > **Blalron** : It was not my intention for my example to be taken literally. Want a realistic example? Fine. Take a fat, poor person on welfare and show them a plate of fried chicken, onion rings, and cheesecake. Then show them a plate of broiled chicken breast, fresh string beans, and a lemon water. They will choose the former. The will still choose the former after you “educate” them on nutrition. And they will choose the former regardless of the price difference between them. Citation please. This sounds like bullshit to me. Oh and btw, people don’t need to give up their favorite foods to be able to keep fit. They need to learn to eat the so-called “bad” food in moderation. It’s ok to have some fried foods. Just don’t overeat and don’t eat it often. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/209 "2009-08-17T14:27:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Now, can we PLEASE get back on topic: Socialism is teh EEEEVILLLLLL!!! Hey, dude is railing against poverity and stupidity, but still wants to abolish the Department of Education. :rolleyes: Socialism isn’t “evil”, but it is inefficient and wasteful. We socialize services when we want to provide a consistant standard of service to everyone. People can be priced out of markets and we as a society believe that people should not be priced out of certain critical services like a K-12 education, or use of the police and fire department. The problem is that the level of service will be much lower than you would get in a free market, however everyone would still get some level of service. For example, society cannot afford 24 hour police protection for everyone, however, there is a market for 24 hour private security if you are willing to pay for it. I don’t pretend to understand the current issues with health care because it is complex and I just haven’t really looked at it all that closely. But I don’t understand the rage these middle America idiots work themselves up to when we talk about universal health care. Guess what? We already have it and you are already paying for it. If you go to a hospital emergency room with no insurance, you still get treated. You may have to wait for hours and you’ll get shitty treatment, but you are still getting health care and it still needs to be paid for by someone. So maybe the first step is to recongize that there is, in fact, a minimum level of care universal health care that we are already paying for as a society? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/210 "2009-08-17T14:34:43Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Socialism isn’t “evil”, but it is inefficient and wasteful. > > … > > If you go to a hospital emergency room with no insurance, you still get treated. You may have to wait for hours and you’ll get shitty treatment, but you are still getting health care and it still needs to be paid for by someone. So maybe the first step is to recongize that there is, in fact, a minimum level of care universal health care that we are already paying for as a society? Yes, but that level of care is inefficient and wasteful. If we are going to provide socialized medicine anyway, don’t you think it is a good idea to be as cost-effective as possible? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/211 "2009-08-17T16:07:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Yes, but that level of care is inefficient and wasteful. If we are going to provide socialized medicine anyway, don’t you think it is a good idea to be as cost-effective as possible? I don’t know if “socialized care” is the solution. I just know the current mishmash of doctors, giant insurance companies, HMOs, PPOs, free clinics and people just walking into the emergency room expecting all kinds of care from fixing a stubbed toe to critical outpatient care for the rest of their lives is horribly confusing, wasteful and in general sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/212 "2009-08-17T19:33:33Z")
I agree, the current system sucks. But I think it’s going to take more than tort reform and tax cuts to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/213 "2009-08-18T10:23:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I believe that if one wishes to live in a society, and therefore enjoy the fruits of said society, one should pay the dues necessary to keep that society functioning in a manner that most benefits as many in that society as possible. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/214 "2009-08-18T11:31:28Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > From each according to his ability, to each according to his need? No, not even remotely. Why would you automatically jump to that cold war saw? Jeez, it must be awful living in a world where there are still evil communists hiding under every rock. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/215 "2009-08-18T13:05:25Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Why would you automatically jump to that cold war saw? Cold war saw? It’s been around and public knowledge a lot longer than that. [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability,_to_each_according_to_his_need) > [@Fear Itself](#): > > Jeez, it must be awful living in a world where there are still evil communists hiding under every rock. Yeah, it’d be a lot less frightening if there weren’t always people in this country trying to push us in that direction. They may not be evil but they are definitely the type that will get us there eventually if we let them get their way. How many times have you heard someone say, “In theory communism is the most perfect form of government”? A lot of people believe that, just like a lot of people believe it’s everyone else’s responsibility to take care of them and that corporations and people who want to make money are greedy and evil. There are tons of them on this very board. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/216 "2009-08-18T13:15:38Z")
Missed the edit window. Note also at the end of that article where even the Soviet Union itself claimed Socialism to be a lower form of Communism when it said: "Claiming themselves to be at a lower stage of communism (“socialism”) in line with Marx’s arguments, the Soviet Union adapted the formula as: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his work (labour investment)”. It’s not for nothin’ that people see communism looming whenever socialism is promoted. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/217 "2009-08-18T13:17:18Z")
Thanks for proving **Fear Itself’s** point (and isn’t that a deliciously ironic statement). Just remember to Duck and Cover, **Starv**. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/218 "2009-08-18T13:17:49Z")
Obama gives up: [Guardian:](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/17/healthcare-obama-public-option-reform) > [@](#): > > Obama will continue to push for reform this year but the new healthcare provision is now likely to be run by private insurance companies rather than by the federal government, which had been his preferred option. I guess the insurance companies paid more politicians than the pharm companies. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/219 "2009-08-18T13:20:28Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > From each according to his ability, to each according to his need? I’ve got mine-screw you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/220 "2009-08-18T13:22:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > How many times have you heard someone say, “In theory communism is the most perfect form of government”? And would you hapen to know what this theory you oppose is? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373.md?page=12)