# I'm tired of Socialized Fire Fighting! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 14, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373 "2009-08-14T02:25:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SmashTheState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@SmashTheState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmashTheState)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/21 "2009-08-14T10:00:51Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > There are more police than fire fighters. Do away with the police. The recently unemployed cops can set up private police forces. Then you can get Crime Insurance and your insurer can pay the police to investigate your crime (assuming the crime is covered by your insurance policy). The insurances companies can probably get deals with the private police forces to keep costs down like in health care. I’m all for eliminating the police force. We\* don’t need them, don’t want them, and are better off without them. - “We” of course means “poor people.” The rich want and need police because the entire purpose of the police is to protect the rich from the poor. RandRover would never dream of eliminating police, because of course that’s how his type are able to maintain the proprietary system which protects their stolen wealth. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/22 "2009-08-14T10:45:06Z")
Smashy, if you don’t want 'em, how are you going to protect your constituents from moron teenagers with gasoline, matches, and baseball bats? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/23 "2009-08-14T11:28:23Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > So.. He’s in favor of socialized medicine on a volunteer or community level but not at a mandatory federal level? Why is mandatory socialized medicine at the community level more acceptable than mandatory socialized medicine at the federal level? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/24 "2009-08-14T12:20:12Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I am under the impression that in most areas, volunteer fire departments are subsidized by local levies, either directly or through a ‘general purpose’ local government body (county, town, village, township, etc.). Nah, people volunteer those expensive trucks and donate them. They volunteer all that equipment. They volunteer the extensive training that even an unpaid fireman should get for his or her own safety. They do an old fashioned “barn raising” when they need a new firehouse, and the community just donates the materials. All hydrants are tested and maintained by volunteers and when a new one is needed in a new subdivision, the neighbors dig it. I have a friend who is a volunteer fireman. He does it because although the job itself is volunteer, the city pays a pension if you do it for ten years when you hit 65. So you don’t get paid now, but its a nice way to supplement retirement income. I suspect that’s an unusual situation. Here our firemen are paid per call. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/25 "2009-08-14T12:46:37Z")
We could have another thread about how fire fighting is financed in reality – and it will differ from place to place: while small rural communities often have volunteer fire fighters, I doubt if the fire fighters in New York City or Los Angeles are all volunteers. However, fire fighting is a lot like health care, because there is a mix of public and private funding in both, and insurance is a major factor in both as well. So the point that OP is making is not a crazy as some have suggested here. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/26 "2009-08-14T13:52:02Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why is mandatory socialized medicine at the community level more acceptable than mandatory socialized medicine at the federal level? Well, it’s more clearly constitutional. [Incorporate by reference here several dozen posts from GD about the Tenth Amendment and the ‘general welfare’ clause in Article One.] Beyond that, I got nothin’. Let us note that to a thoroughgoing libertarian, **no** government service underwritten by mandatory taxes is ethical; everything from army and police to roads to medical care should be financed out of the compassionate voluntary contributions of ethical people. ( **Liberal** has in the past made this argument quite cogently, and put his money where his mouth is, to my certain knowledge. But the clear counter-argument to that position is to simply take **Rand Rover** at his word, and deduce his level of civic involvement and philanthropy from what he has said.) ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/27 "2009-08-14T14:01:34Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > It’s funny when people think they are lampooning other people’s ideas but only make themselves look like a jackass because for once they are talking sense. People’s houses only burn down because they made bad choices in life. Not my fault. They should have built their houses from bricks, not straw or sticks. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/28 "2009-08-14T14:06:27Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > People’s houses only burn down because they made bad choices in life. Not my fault. They should have built their houses from bricks, not straw or sticks. C’mon, don’t pick on **Randy** – he’s only grumpy because he was kept up all night by billy goats gruff walking back and forth across the roof of his dwelling place. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/29 "2009-08-14T14:06:28Z")
This one’s [been kicking around the blogosphere](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019324.php) [for months](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/06/post_chat_transcript.html). Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/30 "2009-08-14T14:49:28Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > RandRover would never dream of eliminating police, because of course that’s how his type are able to maintain the proprietary system which protects their stolen wealth. Hey EatTheState, please explain how I have stolen any wealth. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/31 "2009-08-14T15:43:00Z")
I know you are being sarcastic…but I believe this. Firefighting should be a private enterprise. Police, education and heathcare are a different animal and should be in the domain of the government. Yup…I am a weird duck 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/32 "2009-08-14T15:50:33Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > I’m all for eliminating the police force. We\* don’t need them, don’t want them, and are better off without them. > > - “We” of course means “poor people.” The rich want and need police because the entire purpose of the police is to protect the rich from the poor. RandRover would never dream of eliminating police, because of course that’s how his type are able to maintain the proprietary system which protects their stolen wealth. Smash - other way around. The rich can afford private police and gated communities. It is the poor who benefit from having a public police force. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/33 "2009-08-14T15:53:14Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why is mandatory socialized medicine at the community level more acceptable than mandatory socialized medicine at the federal level? I can control and make changes locally, I have ZERO power at the Federal level. This might be a hijack - but I have said before that I am libertarian at the Federal level and slowly become a socialist the closer I get to the neighborhood level. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/34 "2009-08-14T15:56:35Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > People’s houses only burn down because they made bad choices in life. Not my fault. They should have built their houses from bricks, not straw or sticks. Pretty much. Look, if you’re dumb enough to let your house burn down, that’s not my problem. You know why my house isn’t on fire? Because I made the right choices. I don’t let little Timmy play with matches. I don’t have 35 appliances plugged into one outlet. Can’t afford to put out the fire (that YOU caused, mind you) on your own? Too bad, never should have had a house in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/35 "2009-08-14T16:02:33Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > I can control and make changes locally, I have ZERO power at the Federal level. If you are in the minority locally, you have ZERO power. If more of your neighbors vote to raise your local taxes than vote against it, what are you going to do? ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/36 "2009-08-14T16:04:00Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Pretty much. Look, if you’re dumb enough to let your house burn down, that’s not my problem. You know why my house isn’t on fire? Because I made the right choices. I don’t let little Timmy play with matches. I don’t have 35 appliances plugged into one outlet. Can’t afford to put out the fire (that YOU caused, mind you) on your own? Too bad, never should have had a house in the first place. Right, because nobody’s house ever burns down as a result of factors ourtside their control. Like when a neighbor’s house catches fire and doesn’t get put out right away. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/37 "2009-08-14T16:08:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > (Yeah, we have a VF here too – it’s right across the road from my house – but I don’t think that’s the point) In Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, they have a volunteer fire department. Ironically a building literally next to the fire department burned to the ground. As such being across the street from one probably is not much help. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/38 "2009-08-14T16:12:05Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Right, because nobody’s house ever burns down as a result of factors ourtside their control. Impossible. I’ve taken necessary precautions to ensure my house doesn’t burn down. My house isn’t on fire, isn’t? I’m the only example I need to prove my point. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/39 "2009-08-14T16:15:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And what about that army? It’s not like we’ve really needed them, have we? I mean, WWII was the last time we were _really_ in any danger. > (Yeah, we have a VF here too – it’s right across the road from my house – but I don’t think that’s the point) Are you as angry as I am about the damn government welfare Coast Guard? I’ll fight pirates myself thank you very much! I’m sure people from inland states are furious about having their money stolen to give it to lazy coastal dwellers. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373/40 "2009-08-14T16:17:13Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > People’s houses only burn down because they made bad choices in life. Not my fault. They should have built their houses from bricks, not straw or sticks. Yup…brick buildings can’t burn. Oh…wait…guess they can. [![](https://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2009/05/15/sk-fire-moose-jaw(1)090515.jpg) ](https://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2009/05/15/sk-fire-moose-jaw(1)090515.jpg) [http://www.edmontonjournal.com/1423875.bin?size=620x400](http://www.edmontonjournal.com/1423875.bin?size=620x400) [![](http://www.infomercantile.com/blog/pics/fire-grand-forks-area-1948.jpg) ](http://www.infomercantile.com/blog/pics/fire-grand-forks-area-1948.jpg) [![](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_axwEeSXAOSk/SIi3nSDmH9I/AAAAAAAAAeA/mXPsRqdiX-w/s400/fire.jpg) ](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_axwEeSXAOSk/SIi3nSDmH9I/AAAAAAAAAeA/mXPsRqdiX-w/s400/fire.jpg) [http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2008/12/large\_Birmingham.fire.jpg](http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2008/12/large_Birmingham.fire.jpg) [http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking\_news/BROCKTON-FIRE.jpg](http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/BROCKTON-FIRE.jpg) Maybe if they built them out of steel and had concrete floors so they are super-fireproof! > **[The Madrid Skyscraper Fire - includes videos and photos](https://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/spain_fire_2005.html)** [http://unmask.ru/photo/img-album//fire\_in\_astana/zazhigalka\_05.jpg](http://unmask.ru/photo/img-album//fire_in_astana/zazhigalka_05.jpg) [http://cdn1.latestnews.virginmedia.com/public/images/20090116/435x348/B33726911232103004A0.jpg](http://cdn1.latestnews.virginmedia.com/public/images/20090116/435x348/B33726911232103004A0.jpg) Idiots the lot. They should make these things completely out of asbestos! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-tired-of-socialized-fire-fighting/506373.md?page=3)