Sorry to say this, but have you ever considered that you just have poor judgment? You know, the hottest, most aggressive, slickest-talking guy at the party probably isn’t going to be the nicest guy, if you catch my drift. You know how they talk about men “thinking with their dick?” Maybe you’re thinking with your vagina a little too much.
Man, lowbrass, I was starting to think that we were begining to come to some sort of understanding, and that we could be friends… 
I’ve had many relationships with guys that weren’t like that. I don’t think you can make any assumptions about my judgement based on one guy I met that turned out to be a jerk. And, who says hot guys can’t be nice guys? I’ve actually met a lot of those. And he wasn’t an aggressive slick-talking guy either. Yeah, bad call, he turned out to be an asshole. I was simply using him as an example of the particular type of man/attitude I’m villifying. Because I’m not attacking men in general.
I’m attacking a certain type of man who holds certain attitudes. Specifically, certain big wigs at insurance companies that refuse to cover contraception. I’m saying that perhaps they’re making these decisions without thinking about the consequences for the women who are denied access to this coverage. You know, because maybe, not having a vagina makes it hard to understand what it’s like to have a vagina.
That’s it. I’m attacking the ignorance and short-sightedness of the people in charge of insurance companies, and comparing them to a jackass who wasn’t going to trouble himself by thinking about me, and only wanted to think about himself.
Because some insurance companies do cover contraception, it implies that they are able to do so without losing tremendous amounts of money. So why don’t all? Because they obviously feel that it’s unnecessary, or are unwilling to take the time to figure out how they can profitably cover it too. That’s what pisses me off!
Wow…I don’t know if I’ve ever read a thread with more disinformation.
First, there are many distinctions under the whole “Health Insurance” umbrella.
Individual insurance: The company usually offers you a “canned” (non-custom) product, and then lets you select/deselect several components in the policy (until recently, Maternity was one of those, typically deselected by men).
Small Group Insurance: Typically selected at a state level by an insurance company. Insurance companies at this market size have to abide by State Mandates (link: State Mandates. That means that the State selects what must be covered, and the insurance company decides all else.
Large Group (“ASO”) Insurance. This really isn’t even insurance. A large company contracts with an insurer to provide Administrative Services Only (ASO). The Insurer pays the claims, offers various products that dovetail with the company’s wishes (Cancer programs, Transplant Services, etc.). The company decides everything about how the plan will be built. The company could decide that it will not cover costs associated with Cancer, Grave’s Disease, and hypertension…it’s all OK under the contract.
In regards to the OP. I’ve been in insurance (operations) for about 15 years, so I have some background. I’ve worked in Small Group and currently work in Large Group. I live and work in Illinois…they’re mandated. Meaning…each group plan (excluding ASO) HAS to cover them. Viagra is certainly not a state-mandated drug.
There’s so much hearsay and opinion in this thread, it’s hard to know what to address next!
-Cem
Has to cover BCPs, that is…sigh…
You didn’t say it was “just one guy”. You continue to make blithe characterizations about all men based on your personal experience. You even said as much:
“Case in point” means one case that demonstrates a larger principle. YOU said that, not me.
Nobody. But it’s clear from your bitter attitude about men that you aren’t choosing to be with the nice ones.
Wow, talk about non-sequiturs. What does some dude you hooked up with at a party have to do with insurance company executives?
So now we’re back to the evil cabal again, eh? Yeah, I can see those fat stuffed shirts in their Penthouse conference room smoking cigars and saying, “Let’s stick it to the skirts, eh?” :rolleyes:
Of course we could. Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I don’t like you. 
No. No evil cabal. Here’s the possibilities:
- Insurance companies don’t cover contraception because it’s not financially feasible.
Well, what about the ones that do? They obviously found a way to make it profitable. So, why doesn’t everyone cover it? That leads us on to…
- They’re choosing not to cover contraception because they’re ignorant and short-sighted, and don’t realize the burden that places on women because they’re not women.
How is that the same as
- Let’s stick it to the skirts.
Cemetery Savior has a point. There are so many different types of insurance, that cover or don’t cover a thousand different things, that we can’t generalize. Unfortunately we have been doing just that so that all of our posts aren’t the length of scholarly articles.
Reading over the thread I don’t even know what the hell I’m arguing about anymore, and you all probably think I’m a lunatic. Given that I haven’t stated my arguments very well, you’d probably justified in thinking perhaps I should be riding the Short Bus[sup]TM[/sup] (except for you, yahwc, you’re just an ass).
I’m also rather embarassed that I got sucked into the red herring of my taste in men. :o
So I will try to gracefully bow out now… I see no point in continuing since there is no way we can have a serious debate considering the myriad different insurance plans… (Jesus H. Christ, all I wanted to do was bitch about health care… WTF happened? :smack: )
So, to reiterate (since some of you seem to think I’m a man-hater that wants to fuck men over at the expense of women :rolleyes: )
[ul]
[li]I believe insurance should cover contraception[/li][li]I believe that covering Viagra but not birth control is fucked up, but I don’t have a problem with covering Viagra[/li][li]I believe that women are getting metaphorically fucked by certain insurance plans, but not because the men are out to get us, but because they’re just idiots[/li][li]I hate insurance companies[/li][li]I think we should get rid of private health insurance and switch to a government-run program like Medicaid for all [/li][/ul]
There we go, think that about covers it.
Awww, lowbrass, that’s sweet. 
giggle
Maybe we could meet up in IMHO and just… talk… all night…
looks at ground while shuffling feet
Oh, and another thing. You did not get “fucked over” by this guy. You chose to get in bed with a total stranger, which is your prerogative. But don’t complain about the results of your own freely-made choices. He wanted oral sex and you didn’t want to give it to him. He sounds like an obnoxious asshole, but he didn’t “fuck you over”.
[Uh, oh - I probably made you mad again - sorry]
Whatever… so he didn’t fuck me over like knocking me up and fleeing the state. But he is an obnoxious asshole.
I’m not mad, but hey, can we get over my sex life? Maybe someday I’ll start a thread in MPSIMS called “Let me tell you about my sex life” but it’s not gonna be today. Because, believe me, you don’t want to know about my sex life. :eek:
Nor did my question (“So, do you think that companies that cover Viagra should also cover infertility treatments?”) assume that you did. It was an honest, straight-up question about your reasoning about the difference between Viagra and BCP, and whether it would extend to infertility.
They have concluded that for the markets they serve, this is coverage that overall maximizes profit. Other companies, with a different mix of products and features and markets, could absolutely correctly come to a different conclusion. And, unless you believe they are deliberately choosing to leave profit on the table, that’s what they do. I am honestly confounded by the continued insistence that a firm would deliberately choose to be less profitable, that these decision must have some ignorant or malignant intent behind them. For the 1000th time, large insurance firms LOVE profit. If it made them more profitable to cover birth control, they would. I know these guys, take it from me. If it made them more profitable to cover palm reading for making diagnoses, they’d do it.
Totally not jumping back into this, just wanted to clarify.
Certainly some companies, depending on type of insurance/market served, would not be as profitable if they covered the pill. I just think they need to figure out how to make it more profitable/less costly, considering that it benefits half the population.
I think that they should have to cover the pill if the plan covers prescriptions, seeing as how it is a prescription drug, quality of life, yadda yadda, I’ve got like 30 posts in this thread… And I’m not the only one- the federal government requires the insurer(s?) that cover its employees to cover prescription birth control if it covers other prescriptions, and several courts have concluded that companies that choose to exclude prescription contraception from its prescription coverage are discriminating against women.
I am now getting the hell out of here, I just wanted to make sure my statement was understood.
That’s o.k.; I changed my mind on that anyway. Since I thought about it more, I think they should cover Viagra.
From one of my earlier posts:
In December 2000, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) determined that an employer’s failure to provide insurance coverage for prescription contraceptives, when it covers other prescription drugs, constitutes unlawful gender discrimination under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act. Since that time, a federal district court in Washington State and an appellate court in California have also ruled that an employer’s failure to include contraceptives in its prescription drug plan is gender discrimination in violation of Title VII.
I made sure to qualify my statement with the “if they cover prescription drugs” part. I’m not personally aware of any health insurance plans that don’t cover prescription drugs, but the wording of the above quote seems to suggest that some don’t. So I wouldn’t expect a health insurance plan that didn’t cover prescription drugs to make an exception for birth control- that would, in my mind, constitute gender discrimination as well.
Whoa. On closer reading of that article I see that that court rejects the above findings of the EEOC… That’s in St. Louis, though, maybe they’re all crazy. 
Doesn’t necessarily negate my claim though, just means that this particular court doesn’t agree with me.
They don’t cover vasectomies either, so it is at least more equitable than a plan that covers sterilization but not the pill. However, I find the statement that “Union Pacific’s health plans did not violate the Pregnancy Discrimination Act because contraception is not related to pregnancy” to be, well, ridiculous, and I’m a little frightened that an apellate court said that. Thank goodness for the dissenters, if it had been unanimous I would be cowering under my bed.
Anyway, if I am going to get sucked into this again, can we at least be more specific about what we’re debating, because my head is still spinning from trying to keep track of the 500+ issues at hand.
They’re not in the business of spreading good will and sunshine. They are in the business of offering certain coverages that they deem profitable, which everyone is free to accept or refuse.
Anything that can be prescribed should be covered? Really? Every plan should be forced to cover any possible prescription, in the name of equality, eh? I honestly don’t think you understand what that implies in terms of cost.
Sorry, Red, your argument has stretched beyond the boundaries of credibility. You will now accept any rationale, ISTM, so long as it will end up with birth control being covered. You can jump back in or not, but I still don’t see a credible argument, nothing that has not been countered. If you simply believe there’s some inherent human right to have birth control provided, that birth control coverage is an axiomatic obligation of insurers, just say so, because your arguments thus far aren’t cutting it.
Oh please no. Count me out. My HMO is way, way better in the level of service that I get than Medicaid. Maybe I personally pay more, but I like it that way.
It’s amusing to see a woman who gets mad at a guy because she thought he implied putting out and then he didn’t want to. If the roles were reversed, the attitude would almost certainly be ‘She has a right to decide at any point that she didn’t want to have sex and he shouldn’t be upset about that.’
And then you have to remember that every insurance company has a formulary list of drugs they cover and at what amount. Mine covers several different brands of ‘the pill’, and doesn’t cover others. I’m sure these decisions, like all other drugs that they cover, are based on financial logic. It wouldn’t make sense to base them on anything else.
It’s not gender-directed discrimination; it’s profit motivation.
Well, obviously you and another poster or 2 have more experience with insurace companies from an insider’s perspective, but what other common prescriptions aren’t covered? Obviously, as stated before, there’s a lot of different plans, but I really only ever hear people bitching about contraception (and now apparently Viagra).
I might not be aware of it, but if there are plans out there that don’t cover ADD/ADHD medication or blood pressure medication or antidepressants or IBS drugs, then my stance will change a little. I’ll think they’re dumb for not covering those too, and then this will become strictly an “I hate insurance companies” rant rather than “Insurance companies are bastards for not covering contraception.”
And catsix, not having Medicaid I can’t make any judgements as to their level of service, merely saying that I think everyone should have access to health insurance, and Medicaid/are was an example of what I’m thinking of.
A lot of you seem to have health insurance, so we’re coming from 2 completely different perspectives.
You’re talking to a girl whose parents could no longer afford health insurance when I was in high school, and who has only had the opportunity to get HI from 2 different jobs since high school (I’m 25). Even then, the coverage sucked and I still couldn’t afford to go to the doctor, and still can’t. My credit’s been screwed up almost from the moment I had any, and not because of credit cards or something, but because I had no HI and couldn’t afford going to the doctor, I waited until my bronchitis was so bad I could no longer walk to the bathroom without gasping for air. So then my friend rushed me to the ER, where they took chest X-rays, thinking it was pneumonia, and gave me a nebulizer treatment. I refused another round with the nebulizer, even though they recommended it because my breathing was still bad, because I was afraid of the cost. And then I got slammed with thousands of dollars in medical bills.
So I think the HI industry is a bunch of assholes out to fuck everyone over. And I hate them, and wish they would all die a horrible, fiery death (Stratocaster, and other HI employees present, excluded).
Eh? It’s not like insurance companies have one plan for all their customers with a list of stuff they cover and don’t cover, take it or leave it. The purchasers of the plan, be they employers or consumers, find what they want at what price they want. I’m sure if employers all wanted the pill covered, it would be. But they’re probably looking so save a couple thousand/million by not paying for something that only 1/3 or so of their employees use/could use.
I’m sure there are people that think that way of whatever industry you’re in. Are you out to fuck everyone over?
Well I’m still a student, so not quite in an industry yet. And actually the major I chose was purposely to avoid the “fuck everyone over that we can in the name of profit” mentality that seems quite prevalent in capitalism in general/corporate America in particular.
I’m a history major, hoping to teach at university and write a few books, perhaps work in a museum. So, I’d be surprised if someone accused me and/or history professors as a whole of fucking everyone over. Boring you to death I could see… but not trying to fuck everyone over.