# I'm Torn - Ted Cruz **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586 "2016-07-22T13:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/41 "2016-07-22T19:59:00Z")
There’s no real need to be torn. Ted Cruz was his usual non-team-player “no more miserable sonofabitch ever” (per John Boehner) self, it just so happens that day he was so in an environment where we did not expect (though many did secretly desire) to see someone stand there who _did not_ act cowed before the Golden Combover. Alas, it was this unmitigated sphincter that did so. Cruz is vile and loathsome and his policy positions are abominations but at this particular event he played the necessary role of Man Out Of Fucks To Give. I must confess I smiled at the “I appreciate the great enthusiasm of the New York Delegation” line. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/42 "2016-07-22T20:05:16Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > On one hand, I believe him and his family to be perfectly vile people with vile political beliefs. I had zero respect for this man in any regard based on his politics and his actions. > > Now I am begrudgingly forced to give him about a gram of Respect. > > Why? Because after all this, he refused to endorse Trump and stated that he could not support a man who attacked both his wife and father. To stand up in front of the Republican Convention and your nation and refuse to endorse the nominee for those reasons is an act of strength and character. Fuck that shit. There’s plenty vile about Trump. His rhetoric, his constant use of inane bullshit, his hair. But the one thing that tips Cruz over is “he said mean things about my lady” ? FUCK YOU, ZODIAC ! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/43 "2016-07-22T20:07:14Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Oh no. Since I meant every word in my post to be taken completely literally your post has convinced me that you were completely right to be torn because Cruz did something you didn’t consider vile. :rolleyes: Glad we understand each other. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/44 "2016-07-22T20:44:30Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > That wasn’t principle. That was payback. QFT. And while getting his payback he bit the hand that feeds his campaign war chest - the RNC. Stupid career move unless he’s planning on running in 2020 as an independent, and that ain’t gonna happen. If you don’t like the birthday boy, don’t go to the party. Kasich earned some respect by staying home, Cruz just proved that he is a hypocritical, self aggrandizing, back biting idiot (AKA a politician). ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/45 "2016-07-23T00:40:04Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > It’s funny. All it took for us to give Chris Christie a little respect was for him to treat Obama with the sort of decency that we used to be able to expect any Governor to accord any President. It didn’t hurt that Obama was also bringing a metric fuckton of money to NJ at the time. Now that’s gone to absolute zero, or below. (I know people will say you can’t go below absolute zero, but he’s managed.) Wasn’t it Trudeau who once had a character put his manhood in a blind trust. That’s Chris Christie these days. It was [George (HW) Bush](http://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/1984/11/01), who, in hindsight, was comparatively not that bad. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/46 "2016-07-23T00:43:34Z")
It seems Cruz looks so much better because of the contrast to SOME rival politicians who so quickly fell in line, despite their past attacks on Trump ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/47 "2016-07-23T01:29:01Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > QFT. And while getting his payback he bit the hand that feeds his campaign war chest - the RNC. Stupid career move unless he’s planning on running in 2020 as an independent, and that ain’t gonna happen. > > If you don’t like the birthday boy, don’t go to the party. Kasich earned some respect by staying home, Cruz just proved that he is a hypocritical, self aggrandizing, back biting idiot (AKA a politician). If Trump loses, you think he is going to be involved with the RNC in 2020? He’ll be bored with politics and disappear. In any case, Cruz would have access to the Bush donor list, and the big money which has been avoiding Trump would come back. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/48 "2016-07-23T01:33:54Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I don’t see any merit in what Cruz did. > > If Trump’s policies are correct, then Republicans should support him (whether or not he’s going to lose the election.) > If Trump’s policies are ghastly, then Republicans should refuse to support him (not fall back on “he insulted my family”.) > > All this shows is that Cruz will do anything to win. Given that we don’t have much of a clue as to Trump’s policies except to trust him, personality is a bigger factor than usual. So, not supporting Trump because he is a bully, because he insults peoples wives and fathers, and because he is a con man is perfectly rational. Imagine this dialog: You said you’d support the party’s candidate. But he shot my wife. So? Now, we will never know if Cruz did it because Trump is an asshole (even to Cruz) or out of political calculation - but I’m glad he did. Which doesn’t mean I don’t consider Cruz to be evil also. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/49 "2016-07-23T02:20:01Z")
Any politician who enters a presidential race knows that his family is fair game. Republicans have insulted Michelle Obama and they shredded Hillary Clinton. SNL and comedians insulted Chelsea Clinton as a teenager for being ugly. The press speculates about spouses on the campaign trail. Cruz knew who Donald Trump was. He knew the republican party. He knows about opposition research. He knows how filthy campaigns can be. He knew Heidi, his father, his children, and anyone else were fair game before he ran. He ran after deciding that he could stomach the pain endured by his family. Ted Cruz couldn’t give two shits about his own family. He’s just using them so that people actually think he has principles and cares about people. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/50 "2016-07-23T02:37:09Z")
Rule One: Take NOTHING a politician says at face value. Use the totality of what they say and do into account. There is no Rule Two. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/51 "2016-07-23T04:14:51Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > SNL and comedians insulted Chelsea Clinton as a teenager for being ugly. :dubious: “SNL and comedians”? Actually, the person most strongly associated with insulting Chelsea Clinton is Republican political commentator [Rush Limbaugh](http://www.pensitoreview.com/2014/12/02/flashback-video-limbaugh-calls-chelsea-clinton-age-12-white-house-dog/), who prior to that had similarly insulted Amy Carter: > [@](#): > > On Nov. 6, 1992, just days after Bill Clinton was elected president, Limbaugh, then 41, called Clinton’s 12-year-old daughter Chelsea “the White House dog.” […] In 1988, eight years after the Carter administration, Limbaugh called Pres. Carter’s daughter Amy, then age 21, “the most unattractive presidential daughter in the history of the country.” ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/52 "2016-07-23T04:20:23Z")
Cruz could have taken the high road with “vote your conscience” without mentioning any of the personal wife and father bullshit. Christ, he’s a politician, personal attacks including the family come with the territory. It was a calculated move that could have taken the high road. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/53 "2016-07-23T04:36:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It was both smart, and principled. I hope and expect the Trump candidacy to go down in flames in the general election. Distancing yourself from the coming disaster is good strategy. > > I also believe Trump to be the worst candidate for President in some decades, and unprincipled and dangerous to boot. Cruz should not endorse such a person for President. In this case, putting family and country ahead of party is both the right thing to do, and positions him for a leading role in the fallout after Trump loses 60-40%. Yes, and my views of Cruz are unchanged, except insofar as I give him a nod for successfully following his self interest. Trump will probably lose, but he has perhaps a 20-30% chance of victory (closer to 30% at present). Either way, he gets successfully sued for fraud and elder abuse in the Trump University case immediately after the election. If he wins the Presidency, he will destroy the Republican brand, more so than Jimmy Carter did. If he loses the Presidency he exploits his mailing list to ramp up the grift. Either way, distancing yourself from him will look pretty good in 2018 and 2020. Also it will be difficult to fold, “Vote your conscience” into an attack ad. Cruz is my main man. He consistently creates havoc for the Republicans which is amusing even when he also works in their long run interests. Which is what is happening here. Assuming they have a long run. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/54 "2016-07-23T04:36:15Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Cruz could have taken the high road with “vote your conscience” without mentioning any of the personal wife and father bullshit. Christ, he’s a politician, personal attacks including the family come with the territory. Actually, they don’t. There’s still such a thing as basic decency in politics, or at least, there should be. Trump has absolutely no sense of decency. There are no limits to his douchebaggery, as he amply demonstrated during the debates and just about every time he opens the pie-hole in his face that bears such a remarkable resemblance to an orangutan’s asshole. Cruz is just as much a douchebag as Trump, he’s just more politically conventional and far less juvenile. Watching the two of them battle is like going back 100 million years and watching two T-rex’s at each other’s throats. You don’t really feel sorry for either of them. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/55 "2016-07-23T06:06:25Z")
Correlation does not imply causation. What cruz did may look like the actions of a deeply principled character who embodies integrity, it’s very unlikely that he did what he did because he has integrity and principles. . ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/56 "2016-07-23T06:30:17Z")
Bashing Trump is _smart_, and helps position Cruz for a “told-you-so” run in 2020. _Brave_ would be telling the Republicans how they screwed up by nominating Trump in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/57 "2016-07-23T07:46:22Z")
I despise every political position Ted Cruz stands for, and think he’s a smug pud, but I’m sorry what he did Wednesday night was a Boss move. FUCK Donald Trump and the Republican Party if they don’t like it. Glenn Beck had a good bit on his radio show. It went something like this: “Jeffy, will you promise to always be my friend?” “Sure Glenn.” . . . . . . “YOUR WIFE IS A WHORE, YOUR FATHER IS AN ASSASSIN!!!” “WAIT GLENN! I don’t want to be your friend anymore!” “Wait, Jeffy, you PROMISED to always be my friend!” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/58 "2016-07-23T08:04:34Z")
Isn’t Cruz’s whole thing that he’s so uncompromising that he’s a jerk to everyone? I mean, that’s the gist I got. I don’t see any reason to think this is any different. I agree with Shodan. Just that, just because he’s principled doesn’t make him nor his principles good ones. Except about the the “undecideds…” I think that most of these people mean “I don’t know if I’m gonna vote for Johnson or not vote.” They’re convinced that Clinton is also someone they can never vote for. People on my Facebook wall–which is mostly non-political by design–are worried about the election, thinking both options are horrible. What I’m most concerned about now is people voting for Trump due to Pence. I may actually push the fact that Kaine is personally anti-abortion–since abortion seems to be a huge single issue thing among the Religious Right I know. Also, love that “Vote your conscience” is seen as anti-Trump to the Republican convention. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/59 "2016-07-23T08:20:52Z")
No, he gets no credit. He’s never gone along with the majority of his party, so this isn’t some out of the ordinary principled stance. More importantly, he just said “Trump is a big meanie ☹ :(”, just stating the obvious. That’s not brave. Saying “You’re all fucking nuts for picking this unbalanced, sociopathic narcissistic to represent your party. Look at yourselves, what the fuck?” would be brave. It’s purely a tactical move. As has been mentioned, he’s trying to set himself up for a 2020 comeback. But he can’t be the guy who said, in the middle of a rally, that the Republican party is nuts for nominating the guy, since that will alienate republicans from him in the future. So he takes the safe middle ground of saying “I’m not going to endorse him, but it’s because he was mean to my family, not because he’s fucking nuts and you’re wrong for supporting him” figuring that the Trump-supporting dimwits would relate to that reasoning and understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586/60 "2016-07-23T08:25:40Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Cruz is just as much a douchebag as Trump, he’s just more politically conventional and far less juvenile. You think Cruise won’t resort to personal attacks and insults? Why? Is he curse-unsuited? (opaque, likely unclever joke attempt) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-torn-ted-cruz/760586.md?page=4)