# I'm up for reviving thou **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 17, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776 "2008-07-17T01:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/21 "2012-04-07T19:36:24Z")
> [@snailboy](#): > > Let’s face it, we need different words for singular and plural you. " Y’all" seems to work as a plural you in these parts, . . . We already do have a plural for _you_ (apart from _y’all_) – _You guys_. Granted, it’s not considered appropriate for very formal circumstances (such as a Supreme Court hearing), but it’s used by all of our teachers, in news interviews, and by the president (in press conferences, for example), as well as political figures (e.g., all the current presidential candidates). ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/22 "2012-04-07T20:22:09Z")
> [@snailboy](#): > > How about we use thou for singular and y’all for plural and ditch you altogether? That’ll avoid confusion. What do y’all say? No, I want _ye/you_ for the plural (nominative/oblique). Actually, while we’re at it, let’s bring back the third person masculine singular accusative pronoun _hine_, and put in a good word for the weak declension [genitive](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancrene_Wisse#Language_and_textual_criticism) plural. To the OP: would we also be bringing back the _-est_ conjugation to go with _thou_? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/23 "2012-04-07T20:33:11Z")
Why did the english case system crumble anyway? It seems to me that as you follow languages back, they have much more structured cases. Sanskrit had 8 which kinda boggles my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/24 "2012-04-07T20:52:26Z")
Thou/thee/thine/thy never completely went away - it’s still an active, everyday part of some dialects - for example, in Yorkshire. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/25 "2012-04-07T22:00:53Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > To the OP: would we also be bringing back the _-est_ conjugation to go with _thou_? I vote yes, because then after a while we can stop actually saying “thou” as it will be clear by the conjugation of the verb who is being addressed. And…well…that’s just so cool! I mentioned this here once before, but I once did a production of _A Midsummer Night’s Dream_ with a girl from Texas who kept slipping up and saying “thou’all”. So we could always use that to further clarify. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/26 "2012-04-07T23:43:16Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Seriously, though, it won’t work… You mean, “Seriously, thou, it won’t work…” Try to keep up! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/27 "2012-04-08T01:39:58Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I thought “you” wasn’t so much the old plural as the old “formal” form, which is the same in both singular and plural (like “vous” in French). And I was right (kind of) - “you” was the accusative case of [“ye”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_%28pronoun%29), which is both plural and formal singular. Ye would talk to me, and I would talk to you. Here in Newfoundland “ye” is still used on occasion. Of course, there are a lot of linguistic oddities here. For example, the nice people at the Tim Hortons drive through will often say “I’ll be right with you, my lover”, which is a trifle forward until you get used to it. I’ve once in a while heard a young woman addressed as “maid”, as in “how you gettin’ on, maid?”. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/28 "2012-04-08T01:53:37Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Here in Newfoundland…For example, the nice people at the Tim Hortons drive through will often say “I’ll be right with you, my lover”, which is a trifle forward until you get used to it. Interesting- ‘My lover’ is used for total strangers in Bristol, in England, too- not come across it elsewhere. It is a trifle unnerving at first, especially when it’s some burly builder you’ve never met before. Regarding the OP, Yorkshire/Lancashire folks tend to say ‘tha’ instead of ‘thou’, but ‘thee’ and ‘thou’ ain’t completely dead yet. ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/29 "2012-04-08T05:24:23Z")
Wow. I forgot about this thread. > [@guizot](#): > > We already do have a plural for _you_ (apart from _y’all_) – _You guys_. That’s not really a pronoun but a phrase and the genitive is confusing. Y’all is better. > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > To the OP: would we also be bringing back the _-est_ conjugation to go with _thou_? Well we need some conjugation for it, so why not go with the old one? Dostn’t thou agree? > [@Mangetout](#): > > Thou/thee/thine/thy never completely went away - it’s still an active, everyday part of some dialects - for example, in Yorkshire. We should learn from their example. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/30 "2012-04-08T05:37:56Z")
> [@snailboy](#): > > That’s not really a pronoun but a phrase and the genitive is confusing. Y’all is better. Y’all’s had more time to get ground done. And you guys _is_ better, personal preferences aside, because you guys is the second person plural that has been adopted throughout the majority of american english dialects. If I say y’all or y’inz or youse, I sound affected. You guys is natural speech regardless of one’s background. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/31 "2012-04-08T11:37:09Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Attack from the 3rd dimension] > > Here in Newfoundland…For example, the nice people at the Tim Hortons drive through will often say “I’ll be right with you, my lover”, which is a trifle forward until you get used to it. > > Interesting- ‘My lover’ is used for total strangers in Bristol, in England, too- not come across it elsewhere. It is a trifle unnerving at first, especially when it’s some burly builder you’ve never met before. That’s not surprising - a lot of the settlers of Newfoundland came from the west country of England (as well as Ireland), so constructions from those regions may have survived in Newfoundland. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/32 "2012-04-08T11:56:39Z")
Rather a lot of people here say “Youse” as the plural form of “You”. The only time I’ve heard people not on TV or the internet say “Y’all,” they’re either from Texas or parodying/lampooning people who are. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/33 "2012-04-08T13:55:21Z")
“Y’all” has become a generic filler word. It is no longer used just for 2nd person plural. I hear it all the time for the singular case. “Did y’all find what you were looking for?” when it’s just me standing there. People also throw it into sentences in random ways. The worst is Paula Deen ( **Mrs. FtG** watches her shows). She says things “And now we’ll put that in a 350 degree oven, y’all.” As in “We’ll put that in a 350 degree oven, you.”??? It’s practically in the same category as “um” and “er” now. Note on proper use of “thee”/“you”. You use “you” to refer to a superior or equal. “Thee” to refer to a subordinate. Talk to thee later. ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/34 "2012-04-08T19:31:28Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > “Y’all” has become a generic filler word. It is no longer used just for 2nd person plural. I hear it all the time for the singular case. “Did y’all find what you were looking for?” when it’s just me standing there. > > People also throw it into sentences in random ways. The worst is Paula Deen ( **Mrs. FtG** watches her shows). She says things “And now we’ll put that in a 350 degree oven, y’all.” As in “We’ll put that in a 350 degree oven, you.”??? I haven’t heard either of these. Where is Paula Deen from? > [@](#): > > Note on proper use of “thee”/“you”. You use “you” to refer to a superior or equal. “Thee” to refer to a subordinate. That depends on when and where thou art from. From Wikipedia: “Originally, thou was simply the singular counterpart to the plural pronoun ye, derived from an ancient Indo-European root. Following a process found in other Indo-European languages, thou was later used to express intimacy, familiarity or even disrespect, while another pronoun, you, the oblique/objective form of ye, was used for formal circumstances (see T–V distinction).” I was going for the singular/plural distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/35 "2012-04-08T19:40:02Z")
Forget “thou”. We need to go further back and revive the letters [yogh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogh), [eth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth), [thorn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_%28letter%29), and [wynn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wynn). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/36 "2012-04-08T20:08:57Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I think an English T-V distinction would be fun. They’re commonly found in Romance languages. So, we’d be a new Romantic, looking for the T-V sound. ---
**Author:** ![QuarkChild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c5a1d2/32.png) [@QuarkChild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuarkChild)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/37 "2012-04-09T20:44:29Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Why did the english case system crumble anyway? It seems to me that as you follow languages back, they have much more structured cases. Sanskrit had 8 which kinda boggles my mind. According to the book The Year 1000, English conjugations/declensions got lost due to friction with old Norse. Norse and the Anglo-Saxon language had a lot of vocabulary in common, but they had different endings for words. When the two languages were exposed to each other, the dissimilar endings got dropped and the stems of the words were retained. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/38 "2012-04-09T21:09:39Z")
Hmm. that’s basically what The Unfolding of Language says. I wonder if there’s a text somewhere that goes into greater detail. ---
**Author:** ![Corcaigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Corcaigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corcaigh)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/39 "2012-04-10T12:07:33Z")
Ah sure jaysus around here ye say “ye” and “ye’s”. > [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Of course, there are a lot of linguistic oddities here. For example, the nice people at the Tim Hortons drive through will often say “I’ll be right with you, my lover”, which is a trifle forward until you get used to it. Ooh! There’s a woman who works in a supermarket here who seems to speak inappropriately to customers, only no one ever catches exactly what she’s saying, but it’s not the usual “There ye go”… I tried to catch what she was saying and it sounded like “my lover”, and she does have a non Irish accent … perhaps she’s from Newfoundland! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776/40 "2012-04-10T12:19:26Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Forget “thou”. We need to go further back and revive the letters [yogh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogh), [eth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eth), [thorn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_%28letter%29), and [wynn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wynn). 🙂 Ƿ for the wynn! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-up-for-reviving-thou/456776.md?page=3)