# I'm Wesley Clark, 24, and have never had a girlfriend **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 25, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249 "2004-06-25T22:21:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/101 "2004-06-29T15:14:47Z")
> [@lee](#): > > Fair enough, but my advice for you is that although people may say things about themselves, it can be dangerous for others to say the very same thing, especially in public. Thats a good point. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/102 "2004-06-30T02:46:29Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > So - make sure you are reasonably well groomed (ask a woman friend if you are not sure), get away from your computer and set a goal of getting out on some dates… No…make sure you look COOL. You aren’t on a job interview here. I hooked up with two girls in one night on a bar crawl in the Upper East Side and I was dressed like a freakin homeless person (jeans. ratty thermal shirt under a t-shirt). You want to cultivate a “look”, not just wear a nicely ironed shirt and chinos. Are you going for a college preppy look? A sporty jock look? An urban look? You want to portray a look that tells the opposite sex who you are and what you are about. My look depends on where I am and what I’m doing. There’s “Derelicte” (the thermal, jeans, skull cap and T-shirt) for bumming around the village or going to muddy tailgates. The “Money” look (Deisel jeans and an untucked AX “money” shirt) when heading uptown. “Wall Street” (dark Brooks Brothers suit and power tie) for special events which often transforms into “Drunk Businessman” (same outfit with the tie and collar undone). “Newport Beach” (cargo shorts, sandles and Gap T-shirt) for just hanging out. “Fat Jock” (shorts, Polo shirt, baseball cap and sneakers) for …never. Basically you want to look put together without looking like you name your “looks”. I have to echo what **Merkwurdigliebe** said about dating. In my college, dating was pretty much unheard of. It basically consisted of meeting a girl at a fraternity party and going back to her dorm or bringing her to your room. In high school, I thought that you were supposed to get to know a girl, ask her out and after a couple of dates, make your move. Stupid. My the time I got to college, it was all about random hooking up. If anything, it is better to err on the side of being too agressive (as in making your move earlier, not date raping chicks or anything) and letting her slow the pace than have her get bored and move on. Guys should be fast with the physical shit but slow with the relationshipy stuff. It’s all very complex and requires practice. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/103 "2004-06-30T17:17:07Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > In high school, I thought that you were supposed to get to know a girl, ask her out and after a couple of dates, make your move. Stupid. My the time I got to college, it was all about random hooking up. If anything, it is better to err on the side of being too agressive (as in making your move earlier, not date raping chicks or anything) and letting her slow the pace than have her get bored and move on. Guys should be fast with the physical shit but slow with the relationshipy stuff. Damn, I gotta say that when guys did that with me, _nothing_ was a bigger turnoff. UGH. Give me a guy who’s sweet and caring instead of going right for a piece of ass any day. How about showing some evidence you care about her, instead of just fulfulling your physical needs? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/104 "2004-07-01T21:34:50Z")
This appears to be the correct thread in which to announce that I am apparently as dense as a medium-sized black hole on a bad day and as dense as a block of iridium even on a good day. Oh, and that I can’t manage to sucessfully have any sort of relationship with a girl either. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/105 "2004-07-01T22:06:31Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > This appears to be the correct thread in which to announce that I am apparently as dense as a medium-sized black hole on a bad day and as dense as a block of iridium even on a good day. Oh, and that I can’t manage to sucessfully have any sort of relationship with a girl either. Yay, another member. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/106 "2004-07-02T05:08:19Z")
**Wes** , I feel your pain, man, and I can’t remember who said (on the first page) that it’s easier to downgrade to friends than upgrade to friends+, but this is the conclusion that I reached myself this very week. Leaving out the morbid details, and morbid they are!, let it just be known that it has been resolved to (“KID, HAVE YOU REHABILITATED YOURSELF?”) and hopefully things will work better next time. I mean, shit. What I meant to write was: (“MAKE MOVE EARLIER”) Yeah, that looks good. Tenebras PS, **garius** , you rock. Hell, you rawk. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/107 "2004-07-02T05:26:56Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Damn, I gotta say that when guys did that with me, _nothing_ was a bigger turnoff. UGH. Give me a guy who’s sweet and caring instead of going right for a piece of ass any day. How about showing some evidence you care about her, instead of just fulfulling your physical needs? That would mean that the guy’s thoughtful and unique. Assholish and cookie-cutter pretty is the formula for today’s male hottie. Girls may think they want a guy of substance, but since those guys aren’t aggresively trying to get in thier pants (a side-efect of tact), the good guys are usually ignored. I find it ironic that women claim that there are never any good guys left, yet they routinely pick from only the bottom of the guy pool. Hell, even guys know better. Hot chicks have issues, end of story. If a guy’s shallow enough, he doesn’t care. Same thing with girls. Meatheads that look good typically care about nothing other than their own looks, and the looks of their partner. Such vain people get, and deserve, all the trouble they encounter. Super nice guys are out there, they’re just pinned between the girls of their dreams that they can never have, and the girls that they’d never want to have dreaming about them. If there was a winning formula, I’d be rich. My only advice is: meet as many people as you can, you might find your life partner that way. I need to shut up now. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/108 "2004-07-02T11:49:43Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > Hot chicks have issues, end of story. If a guy’s shallow enough, he doesn’t care. . Damn, i’ve never heard anyone else say that, when i tell people i’d rather have a plain or slightly cute woman over a beautiful one people always assume its just because i can’t get gorgeous women. Nobody seems to care about the propensity for psych. problems gorgeous women seem to have. I guess you cant blame them for being more likely to be screwed up. Their whole lives men have kissed their ass, manipulated them and feigned interest in them while women have been jealous of them. That probably helps to foster a pretty unstable mind. Not that all gorgous women are unstable, just more likely to be this way according to the people i know who have dated them. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/109 "2004-07-02T15:13:25Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > That would mean that the guy’s thoughtful and unique. Assholish and cookie-cutter pretty is the formula for today’s male hottie. Girls may think they want a guy of substance, but since those guys aren’t aggresively trying to get in thier pants (a side-efect of tact), the good guys are usually ignored. > > I find it ironic that women claim that there are never any good guys left, yet they routinely pick from only the bottom of the guy pool. > > :: snip :: > > Super nice guys are out there, they’re just pinned between the girls of their dreams that they can never have, and the girls that they’d never want to have dreaming about them. Well, I can only talk about me and my personal experiences, so no plurals here. But my boyfriend that I have _is_ one of “the good guys”, honestly and truly. And with his first couple girlfriends, he had bitchy hosebeasts who took advantage of him. But according to him, I’m “the girl of [his] dreams” (not those words, but I’m equating what he has said to the words you use) and had noticed me for 3.5 years in uni before even talking to me. He definitely took his time and had an extreme amount of tact (considering that he _asked me_ if he could kiss me. So sweet!!!). And he’s the most sweetest and caring man I have ever, ever met (and it’s sincere and who he is, not just an act). \*\* I guess, in my opinion, nice guys are the best. And obviously we all hear “nice guys finish last”, but you know what I think? I think it’s just that nice guys have to put up with women who don’t deserve them, or women who _do_ deserve them but are going through various phases/issues. Nice guys have to put up with more shit, rejection and heartache, _but_ when they win, they win BIG \*\*\*. 🙂 \*\* Just one example: When we were driving to a movie, I started crying (I’m not going to go into the reason here, but it wasn’t because of him). The second he saw my face start to crumple, he immediately looked for a safe spot to pull over, did so, unbuckled his seat belt and held me and asked me what was wrong. You have no idea how good it felt to know he cared like that. \*\*\* err… not to toot my own horn or anything like that. But hopefully you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/110 "2004-07-02T23:38:21Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > I guess you cant blame them for being more likely to be screwed up. Their whole lives men have kissed their ass, manipulated them and feigned interest in them while women have been jealous of them. That probably helps to foster a pretty unstable mind. Not that all gorgous women are unstable, just more likely to be this way according to the people i know who have dated them. I’ve heard it before that there are some gorgeous women that never get asked on dates because guys typically are afraid to ask them out. And the few that do, actually can get a relationship going. Who knew? So maybe we can be some of the few? j/k, but maybe? I myself like like the “plain jane” look too. But I don’t discriminate! I’m generally equal oportunity, unless your totally gross. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/111 "2004-07-02T23:59:52Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > I’ve heard it before that there are some gorgeous women that never get asked on dates because guys typically are afraid to ask them out. And the few that do, actually can get a relationship going. Who knew? I don’t know if anna nicole counts as ‘hot’ but i was watching her show once and a guy asked for her phone number. She gave it to him and when her agent asked why she gave it out she said something like ‘hes the first guy in X years to ask for my number’, so i guess in a way that that is true. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/112 "2004-08-10T20:10:49Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > In a way i feel stupid for writing that, and i don’t know why. Either its because i don’t think its important enough to be an issue or because i think that other people will really, really look down on me for it. Probably a mixture. > > Dammit the words flowed so smoothly when i was at the checkout lane at kroger and thinking of what i was going to say when i got home and was going to post on SDMB so total strangers could see the intimiate details of my life. Let me add more alcohol. > > Alright. What i was trying to say is this. Yeah i’ve never had a girlfriend and i’m 24. I have (i think) been on a date before. some woman from a class asked me to help her study and she kept flirting with me. we did that twice and after i asked her out again she dropped me. Cest la vie. > > I also have had a ‘relationship’ with a woman from england that i met online. But i dont know if that counts. We never met in person and only talked via email, IM, or the phone. but we got along for several years and we still talk off and on. > > But anyway, i dont lack self confidence or the ability to approach women. Thats actually how this post got started. Last weekend i was thinking about how i have never had a girlfriend and figured ‘why don’t i try to get one’. I have a good deal of self confidence, i like myself, and i know a reasonable deal about human interaction and female psychology. So on monday i try to pick up a woman from my class. I appraoch her, talk to her, and say goodbye and it goes nowhere. On tuesday i do it again with a different woman. I see the same woman again wednesday, we talk more and i ask her if she wants to study. On thursday we talk more. Then (i still find this part hilarious) today she emails and says she has a boyfriend (live in i think). So here i am getting all worked up (in a way) thinking ‘oh yeah, im finally going to experience what most people take for granted when they are 12 today and go on a date with a woman i asked out’ and i find out its not even a date. I was mildly embarassed, but we ended up talking and getting along and i may have made a new friend. So its not like this was a total washout or anything. > > I seriously just want to give up though. Why can’t i just say ‘you know what, romance is a tricky mindfield and i don’t think the benefits are worth the risks’ and hang it up? I think its cultural brainwashing, if you look around 70-80% of popular culture mentions the greatness of romance (read a book, watch movies, listen to music, you’ll see what i mean). How is this different than Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia when 70-80% of popular culture mentioned the greatness of Nazism or Stalinism? Hell, had i grown up in Stalinist Russia would i be sitting here writing a post called “I’m Wesley Clark, 24, and have never joined the Communist party or read Stalin’s book”? Naturally my name isn’t Wesley Clark but you get the idea. > > Hmmmmmm. As far as meeting women there aren’t good places. Unlike most people who haven’t had dates i do not fear women and am not really intimidated by them. The girl i was talking about earlier, i approached her, i led the conversations, i built my way into her trust, etc and she was a total stranger 3 days ago and now we will hopefully build a friendship. So its not like i can’t pick women up. its the embarassment factor. I would say 90% of strange women you try to pick up will laugh at you behind your back. Of the 10% who go along with it and date you your personality probably will not be compatible with most. So that is what, a 2% success rate in exchange for humiliating yourself over and over? No thanks. > > I have no real social network either. This is how most people meet SOs, they have a social network. But my lack prevents this track. > > I don’t want to shell out $20 a month for dating sites. > > I also don’t have tons of money/power/fame, etc so women aren’t going to come to me. > > So i’m pretty much stuck in limbo here. I know there are ways to get women but i don’t really like any of them. And to top it off, i realize that this is all pretty stupid, even if/when i get a woman it wont make a big difference in my life. I think i just want to ‘get it over with’ so i can say ‘yeah i dated, it sucked, lets focus on something else’. > > I mean i know alot of guys. I know guys who are players who are always going on dates, players who are always getting sex, and i know guys in committed relationships. Most of them are no more content than me and several have many constant discontentments with their situation. The players want a great wife, the married guys want a great wife too (hahahaha). Everybody has problems. Is this what i’m getting myself worked up over, to have something that isn’t that great to begin with? > > I think i just want someone to understand that its possible to not date w/o being terrified of women, or without being a ‘total loser’, or without thinking that the solution is to meet tons of women. I have always secretly thought the solution was to realize how pointless this thing is and not worry about it. But that reminds me of something a comedian once said when talking about homeless kids. “you have to obtain grace before you fall from it”. How can i give up something i have never even done? I should at least try it before i give it up. > > Well shit. If I were a girl I would be bored to tears with your drivel. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/113 "2004-08-11T01:53:17Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Damn, I gotta say that when guys did that with me, _nothing_ was a bigger turnoff. UGH. Give me a guy who’s sweet and caring instead of going right for a piece of ass any day. How about showing some evidence you care about her, instead of just fulfulling your physical needs? Well… I mean, there’s nothing worse than that “arm wrestling an octopus” date, yeah. But you want a guy to act physically _interested_ - he should be kind of in your personal space, if not touching your hand or your back or, er, “teaching you how to play pool” - I just went on a date with an EHarmony guy who seemed to have a good time talking to me but, er, stayed entirely on his side of the table and walked on the other side of the sidewalk. And when it was over he gave me that Mafia hug, you know, the one that guys give each other that means “you’re my pal but I’m not gay”, which when applied to a woman means… well, I dunno. I didn’t know how to read the thing at all - I assume he just wasn’t physically interested in me, and I was a little hurt because I thought I looked all fabulous. You want them to show interest! ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/114 "2004-08-11T11:50:49Z")
Bloody hell - thought this thread died ages ago. Whilst its here though i’d like to point out that i’m now dating the rather scrumptious **rekkah** from earlier in this thread. My advice rules… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![luluBahrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e5b9ba/32.png) [@luluBahrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/luluBahrain)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/115 "2004-08-11T20:03:26Z")
> [@spingears](#): > > If I were a girl I would be bored to tears with your drivel. Just wanted to let you know how sweet of a guy you seem to resurrect an old thread just to insult someone. What a prize! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Pammipoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/87869e/32.png) [@Pammipoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pammipoo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249/116 "2004-08-12T00:47:15Z")
I’m 22, and never had a _real_ boyfriend-just lots of casual sex over the years from various sources. Can I join your table? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wesley-clark-24-and-have-never-had-a-girlfriend/252249.md?page=5)