# I'm wondering if avenatti might not be such a bad choice for president **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 3, 2018, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668 "2018-09-03T02:54:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/61 "2018-09-05T04:03:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You realize you’re talking about [the guy who told the “Lie of the Year” in 2013](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/), right? Nice cherry pick. [Obama](https://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/) vs [your boy](https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/62 "2018-09-05T04:05:18Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Nice cherry pick. > > [Obama](https://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/) vs [your boy](https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/) I’m not claiming “[my] boy” is " the best fucking President with the most integrity your country has ever had and probably ever will." See the difference? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/63 "2018-09-05T04:08:06Z")
Fine, go look up who ever your boy is over there and report back to us. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/64 "2018-09-05T04:09:14Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Fine, go look up who ever your boy is over there and report back to us. Both he and Obama have told lies. I didn’t need to look anything up to know that. Neither one rate in the top 10 presidents of the USA imho. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/65 "2018-09-05T04:21:38Z")
Who does? that’s what I meant by go find your boy over there. Go find the best fucking President with the most integrity your country has ever had and probably ever will. Then we can compare and contrast and discuss. Cherry picking one thing does nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/66 "2018-09-05T04:39:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You realize you’re talking about [the guy who told the “Lie of the Year” in 2013](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/), right? …from your cite: > [@Obama](#): > > “We weren’t as clear as we needed to be in terms of the changes that were taking place, and I want to do everything we can to make sure that people are finding themselves in a good position, a better position than they were before this law happened. And I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me,” he said. Obama fucked up. He owned his fuck up. He apologized. What more do you think he should have done? > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Both he and Obama have told lies. If I was to look up in a dictionary the definition of “false equivalence” it would point to this sentence as the perfect example. President Trump has (according to the Washington Post) made [4,229 false or misleading claims in 558 days](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/08/01/president-trump-has-made-4229-false-or-misleading-claims-in-558-days/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.def48a99770a). You’ve cited one “lie” from Obama: a “lie” that he both acknowledged and apologized for. I stand by my opinion on his integrity. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not claiming “[my] boy” is " the best fucking President with the most integrity your country has ever had and probably ever will." See the difference? He isn’t “my boy.” Just for your information: calling a black man “boy” is highly offensive. [http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/15/understanding-why-you-dont-call-a-black-man-a-boy/](http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/15/understanding-why-you-dont-call-a-black-man-a-boy/) > [@cite](#): > > But others must understand the history of African Americans, and what it has always meant to black men for someone to call them a “boy.” > > One, it’s the ultimate sign of disrespect, and is often more offensive than calling them the N-word. For years black men were summarily dismissed and treated with disregard. It was as if their stature was diminished when someone white called them a boy. I’ve heard black men describe the hurt and pain of growing up and having someone white call them a boy in front of their own child. You should refrain from doing so in the future, in my opinion. Just in case people get the wrong idea. > [@](#): > > Neither one rate in the top 10 presidents of the USA imho. You are entitled to your opinion: just as I am entitled to mine. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/67 "2018-09-05T04:41:23Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …from your cite: > > Obama fucked up. He owned his fuck up. He apologized. > > What more do you think he should have done? > > If I was to look up in a dictionary the definition of “false equivalence” it would point to this sentence as the perfect example. President Trump has (according to the Washington Post) made [4,229 false or misleading claims in 558 days](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/08/01/president-trump-has-made-4229-false-or-misleading-claims-in-558-days/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.def48a99770a). You’ve cited one “lie” from Obama: a “lie” that he both acknowledged and apologized for. I stand by my opinion on his integrity. > > He isn’t “my boy.” > > Just for your information: calling a black man “boy” is highly offensive. > > [http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/15/understanding-why-you-dont-call-a-black-man-a-boy/](http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/15/understanding-why-you-dont-call-a-black-man-a-boy/) > > You should refrain from doing so in the future, in my opinion. Just in case people get the wrong idea. > > You are entitled to your opinion: just as I am entitled to mine. To be fair to Ditka here, he was quoting me when I implied that Trump was his boy. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/68 "2018-09-05T04:49:42Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … What more do you think he should have done? … Not lied over and over again in the first place. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … He isn’t “my boy.” … I never said he was. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … Just for your information: calling a black man “boy” is highly offensive. > > [http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/15/understanding-why-you-dont-call-a-black-man-a-boy/](http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/15/understanding-why-you-dont-call-a-black-man-a-boy/)… I guess it’s a good thing I didn’t do that then, isn’t it? As noted by **snfaulkner** (I appreciate that, BTW), the talk of “boy” was referring to President Trump (whom I don’t really consider to be “my boy”, just to set the record straight). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/69 "2018-09-05T04:52:46Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Who does? that’s what I meant by go find your boy over there. Go find the best fucking President with the most integrity your country has ever had and probably ever will. Then we can compare and contrast and discuss. Cherry picking one thing does nothing. Haven’t really formalized a top 10. I’m sure Washington is on there, as well as Lincoln. Probably Ike too. And Reagan of course. Maybe Jefferson and Monroe? I don’t know. I’d have to mull it over some more. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/70 "2018-09-05T06:10:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Not lied over and over again in the first place. …I dispute the characterization of what Obama said as a “lie.” You say “over and over again”: but you’ve cited only a single instance…an instance where Obama both acknowledged he was in error, that he misspoke, and that he apologized for. Is that it? So I’m not seeing your point. Is this it? You want me to judge Obama on this single instance? Done. Based on this instance it appears the Obama had the ability to recognize when he made a mistake and had the humility to apologize for making that mistake. That shows great integrity: integrity befitting of the office. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/71 "2018-09-05T06:33:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … > As noted by **snfaulkner** (I appreciate that, BTW)… No sweat. I’d hate have yer another conversation sidetracked by miscommunication. Or yet another level of miscommunication. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/72 "2018-09-05T08:41:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You realize you’re talking about [the guy who told the “Lie of the Year” in 2013](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/), right? Oh my. Doesn’t your ilk get tired of repeating the same half-truth over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ad nauseam? It was obviously a stupid statement, but it wasn’t a deliberate lie. If you want an example of deliberate lie, consider the planned GOP reform to health insurance in which “you will still be able to get health insurance despite pre-existing conditions.” The gotcha on that GOP lie? Yes, you can get insurance despite pre-existing conditions … **but the pre-existing conditions need not be covered.** :smack: Demonstrate a willingness to learn and I’ll explain why Obama’s stupid statement shouldn’t be considered a “lie.” Meanwhile, contemplate this: Your ilk trots out the same misstatement over and over and over. If Obama were such a liar, don’t you think you’d have a 2nd lie to point to? Meanwhile every single day, your man produces more outrageous lies. Twenty lies per day he’s up to on average, IIRC. _ **Twenty distinct lies per day!** _ Joseph Goebbels never did that. Charles Ponzi and Bernie Madoff never did that. Even P.T. Barnum never did that. D.J. Trump truly is the Greatest “stable genius” ever by one measure!! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/73 "2018-09-05T08:50:24Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I dispute the characterization of what Obama said as a “lie.” > > You say “over and over again”: but you’ve cited only a single instance…an instance where Obama both acknowledged he was in error, that he misspoke, and that he apologized for. Is that it? … He didn’t tell the “Lie of the Year” just once (that’s probably a big part of why it was the “Lie of the Year”). He repeated it over and over again: > [@](#): > > PolitiFact counted 37 times when he’d included no caveats, such as a high-profile speech to the American Medical Association in 2009: “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.” It wasn’t “only a single instance”. It was 37 instances. My point is that the man is a liar. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/74 "2018-09-05T08:52:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > … If Obama were such a liar, don’t you think you’d have a 2nd lie to point to? … Sure, and I do. Here are some additional lies he told: > **[Fact-checks | PolitiFact](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?speaker=barack-obama&ruling=pants-fire)** > > PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/75 "2018-09-05T09:19:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > He didn’t tell the “Lie of the Year” just once (that’s probably a big part of why it was the “Lie of the Year”). He repeated it over and over again: LOL. “PolitiFact counted 37 times when he’d included **no caveats**.” That isn’t 37 lies. Thats 37 times with no caveats. As I’ve already pointed out. And I don’t accept the characterization that this was a “lie” in the first place. > [@](#): > > It wasn’t “only a single instance”. It was 37 instances. LOL. Here’s Trump’s page. > **[Fact-checks | PolitiFact](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?speaker=donald-trump)** > > PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter. 37 instances vs 31 FUCKING PAGES. Here is one of the “pants on fire” lies from Obama: > **[Presidential politics goes to Sesame Street: Obama says Romney wants to fire...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2012/oct/09/barack-obama/obama-says-romney-wants-fire-big-bird/)** > > Scare tactics have a long history in American politics. Now, the Obama campaign is trying to scare preschoolers -- and t “Says Mitt Romney plans to “fire” Big Bird.” Are you fucking kidding me? That wasn’t even a quote from Obama. It was from the campaign. It was tongue in fucking cheek. Here’s the advert. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/bZxs09eV-Vc/maxresdefault.jpg "Big Bird - Obama for America TV Ad") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZxs09eV-Vc) Its fucking hilarious. Do you think its fair to call that a “pants on fire” lie? > [@](#): > > My point is that the man is a liar. LOL. Yeah, Mitt Romney’s going to fire Big Bird. Big fucking lie. Crime of the fucking century. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/76 "2018-09-05T09:24:22Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … Here’s Trump’s page. … I believe the word for this is “whataboutism”. Anyways, it’s beside the point, because I’m not asserting that Trump is the bestest President ever. I’m simply disproving the claim that Obama was. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/77 "2018-09-05T09:34:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I believe the word for this is “whataboutism”. …LOL. I believe you are wrong. I’m not trying to distract from anything. It was an entirely fair and appropriate comparison, it was merely a humorous observation and didn’t take anything away from the rest of the rebuttal (that you chose not to quote.) > [@](#): > > Anyways, it’s beside the point, because I’m not asserting that Trump is the bestest President ever. **I’m simply disproving the claim that Obama was**. All you’ve managed to prove is that President Trump is orders of magnitude a bigger fucking liar than Obama ever could hope to be. I’ve already conceded you are welcome to express your opinion as I am allowed to express mine. So I’m not entirely sure why you are trying to prove anything to me at all. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/78 "2018-09-05T09:41:47Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Just for your information: calling a black man “boy” is highly offensive. Hi **Hurricane**! While you’re here, I hope you comment on DeSantis’s insult with the phase “monkey around.” (Or do I need to Google that for you also? 😕 ) Some of the liberals are calling this a “racist dog whistle.” What do you think, **Hurricane**? Probably intended as a dog whistle? Probably not? 5%? 10%? 90%? We eagerly await further understanding of your thinking. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I believe the word for this is “whataboutism”. Anyways, it’s beside the point, because I’m not asserting that Trump is the bestest President ever. I’m simply disproving the claim that Obama was. Errr … I think we need some English and logic lessons here. You may think you are _providing evidence_ against the claim, or _helping_ to disprove it. OTOH, if you really think your single confused factoid “disproved” the claim then you appear to be emulating your idol in vainglory! … But I’ll give you credit and suppose you just have inadequate grasp of the meaning of “disprove.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/79 "2018-09-05T09:55:57Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Hi **Hurricane**! While you’re here, I hope you comment on DeSantis’s insult with the phase “monkey around.” (Or do I need to Google that for you also? 😕 ) … If you’re not interested in providing cites, I’m probably not interested in commenting, particularly when the post is so far off the thread topic. If you want to discuss it, go start a thread about it, and provide a cite. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668/80 "2018-09-05T10:33:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If you’re not interested in providing cites, I’m probably not interested in commenting, particularly when the post is so far off the thread topic. If you want to discuss it, go start a thread about it, and provide a cite. Oh, I really did hope you would answer that question. ☹ Of course nobody would accuse _you_ of racism, but you have demonstrated that you aren’t entirely able to recognize the “dog whistles” and other indicators that some liberals see or hear. Won’t you please help us understand this anomaly? No, I don’t want to start a thread to debate that alleged dog whistle. **I am specifically interested in just _your_ opinion.** I hope you take that as a compliment! You ask for a cite? 😕 Let me drop my question about the dog whistle down to #2 priority. My #1 question now is … _ **Did you really not read about DeSantis’s “monkey around” insult ?** _ I’m not a hard-core political news junkie compared with many Dopers in these threads, yet it came to my attention _via several different feeds_. I’m sure it’s been mentioned several times just here at SDMB. So: Please tell us whether you were truly unaware of the DeSantis “monkey around” insult. - If the answer is Yes, synopsize your news sources to help us get to the bottom of that mystery. - If the answer is No … why are you asking for a Cite? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-wondering-if-avenatti-might-not-be-such-a-bad-choice-for-president/820668.md?page=5)