# Images of war, what CNN does not show you
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [April 5, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750 "2003-04-05T23:00:42Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@McLeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McLeo)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/1 "2003-04-05T23:00:42Z")
[http://www.stopwar.org.uk/warimages.asp#top](http://www.stopwar.org.uk/warimages.asp#top)
This links to a website which shows images of the civilians of Iraq suffering through the war. I find this absolutely disturbing, and while I understand that there will always be unintended casualties in a war, this is just too much. Just wanted to share this, thoughts are appreciated.
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/2 "2003-04-05T23:08:14Z")
I think that it is important to see even the more hideous photographs. We should face the reality of what is taking place in Iraq – regardless of which side the dead are on. The most memorable images of the Vietnam War were gruesome but effective: The man being executed with a shot to the side of his head and the naked little girl burned with napalm running from her village. That is what war looks like.
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### Author:  [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/3 "2003-04-05T23:09:22Z")
☹ Let’s just hope that however this ends the Iraqi people can come out of this with as few casualties as possible.
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### Author:  [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/4 "2003-04-05T23:16:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Zoe \*
> \*\*I think that it is important to see even the more hideous photographs. We should face the reality of what is taking place in Iraq – regardless of which side the dead are on. The most memorable images of the Vietnam War were gruesome but effective: The man being executed with a shot to the side of his head and the naked little girl burned with napalm running from her village. That is what war looks like. \*\*
I agree strongly. This war has been remarkably bloodless and free of suffering according to the American media. It’s just a bunch of “cool” explosions and gunfire at invisible targets. The only civilians we seem to see are those who stand silently by the road, watching our troops drive by.
The media is doing us a great disservice by presenting this romantic and unrealistic portrayal of war.
I want America to be forced to see the agony on the faces of beautiful children. I want them to see the bodies of both Americans and Iraqis. I want everyone forced to acknowledge the human cost of war.
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### Author:  [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/5 "2003-04-05T23:22:58Z")
I’ve seen plenty of unpleasant images from the war on Irish television. They’re shown at night (although not _that_ late at night - after 9pm basically), and always with a warning. But they’re shown.
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### Author:  [@beckwall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beckwall)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/6 "2003-04-06T00:03:52Z")
You would have to be quite naive to believe the party-fed media reports that few civilian casualties have occurred. The massive bombing would obviously take its toll. And not just “human shields”, but everyday civilians and their families.
Atrocities are happening in the name of peace and liberation.
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### Author:  [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/7 "2003-04-06T00:20:01Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Atrocities are happening in the name of peace and liberation.
Now who’s naive? Atrocities indeed. Where’s your sympathy for the poor bastards that Saddam has killed _on purpose_? Where are the shocking photos of them?
Bah.
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/8 "2003-04-06T00:25:44Z")
Bah indeed! If Saddam does it first, then we can do it too! It’s perfectly OK!
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### Author:  [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/9 "2003-04-06T00:30:55Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Zoe \*
> \*\*The most memorable images of the Vietnam War were gruesome but effective: The man being executed with a shot to the side of his head \*\*
I guess it dosen’t bother you that that man was a VC officer, caught out of uniform spying behind the lines and legaly executed, does it?
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Revtim \*
> \*\*Bah indeed! If Saddam does it first, then we can do it too! It’s perfectly OK! \*\*
Lib has posted links before to Amnisty International reports detailing the **over one million** civilians that Saddam has killed, but I suppose that scale of slaughter dosen’t matter either does it?
Look, I regret _any and all_ civilian casualties from the war, but what we’re doing, however tragic the civilian casualties are, is minor compared to what the regime has been doing to Iraq for years. Where were all you bleeding hearts then?
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### Author:  [@ThatGuyWithPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThatGuyWithPants)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/10 "2003-04-06T00:32:15Z")
Not to degrade what horrible things might happen to Iraqi civilians, but a site biased towards “no-war” can slant a picture any way they want. What happens to people who get hit by weapons is indeed sad, but I’m more prone to believe the context of the picture (and its caption) from an unbiased 3rd party.
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### Author:  [@ThatGuyWithPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThatGuyWithPants)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/11 "2003-04-06T00:34:49Z")
**Weirddave** , man you beat me to it. Very wise words. I also fail to see people bringing up the fact that these Iraqi soldiers are using their own wives and children as human shields.
I dont have a net cite, (twas from TV.) but I’m sure it’d be on CNN or such.
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### Author:  [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/12 "2003-04-06T00:38:33Z")
Yeah, see. In the interest of fairness, I want to see gruesome, graphic photos on that website that depict what Hussein has doen over the years. Only, you’d have to post about 100 pictures a day every day for the next 30 years to catch the entirety of the slaughter.
> [@](#):
>
> Bah indeed! If Saddam does it first, then we can do it too! It’s perfectly OK!
Dr. Analogy, Dr. Faulty Analogy, you’re needed for a logic transplant, STAT!
What part of “Saddam has been doing it _on purpose_” for the last 20 years or so was unclear?
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### Author:  [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/13 "2003-04-06T00:42:44Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ThatGuyWithPants \*
> \*\ ***Weirddave** , man you beat me to it. Very wise words. I also fail to see people bringing up the fact that these Iraqi soldiers are using their own wives and children as human shields.
>
> I dont have a net cite, (twas from TV.) but I’m sure it’d be on CNN or such. \*\*
Somehow, I find it hard to believe that this could be wide-scale. Am I to believe that there’s no such thing as love in Iraq? That no soldier would think twice about putting his wife and children in harm’s way?
I’m sorry, but it’s hard for me to accept that Iraqis are inhuman and incapable of love. Seems to me that the average soldier is a person, too, who deeply cares for his family. Yeah, I’m sure there are fanatics out there who would do such horrible things, but I’m sure they’re not in the majority.
Come on, these people aren’t \* monsters. \* They’re people, like you or I. The average soldier may not even be particularly fond of Saddam: he’s just doing his job.
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/14 "2003-04-06T00:44:37Z")
You have the faulty logic unit, Ogre. Just because the OP mentioned one set of atrocities, means neither approval of Saddam’s nor obligation to mention them.
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### Author:  [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/15 "2003-04-06T00:54:55Z")
**Weirddave** , some Americans have feelings about people killed by Americans that they don’t feel about people killed by non-Americans.
These feelings are called “responsibility” and “guilt.”
But perhaps Americans should feel guilt or responsibility about Saddam Hussein’s crimes. (We helped him fight Iran, remember? Which helped him stay in power, remember?)
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### Author:  [@ThatGuyWithPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThatGuyWithPants)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/16 "2003-04-06T01:03:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Lissa \*
> \*\*Somehow, I find it hard to believe that this could be wide-scale. Am I to believe that there’s no such thing as love in Iraq? That no soldier would think twice about putting his wife and children in harm’s way?
>
> I’m sorry, but it’s hard for me to accept that Iraqis are inhuman and incapable of love. Seems to me that the average soldier is a person, too, who deeply cares for his family. Yeah, I’m sure there are fanatics out there who would do such horrible things, but I’m sure they’re not in the majority.
>
> Come on, these people aren’t \* monsters. \* They’re people, like you or I. The average soldier may not even be particularly fond of Saddam: he’s just doing his job. \*\*
I cant argue with your point. I dont have a cite (as of yet). I wouldnt put it past a few psychos though. I’m sure there would be some Americans (albiet I believe a MUCH smaller amount) who would do that. I’ll try to search later on tonight. If I cant find anything, I’ll retract my comment.
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### Author:  [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/17 "2003-04-06T01:16:40Z")
Oh, I realize that, **Revtim**. I just wonder where your mortal concern for the Iraqi populace was when little Achmed and his friends went through the plastic shredder, followed by their teddy bears, in 1994. Or when Uday had his “millionth customer award” at the Nasiriya Rape Camp.
They’re monsters. They are directly analogous to Adolf Hitler in both intent and scale. They are Fascists in every sense of the word, and their time is long since past. The balance of Iraqi opinion I’ve read suggests to me that they know this, and have known it for years.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Griffin-Kentzel)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/18 "2003-04-06T01:35:33Z")
This is not the forum for debating the atrocities of war. Feel free to open such a thread in [**Great Debates**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=7). This is closed.
* * *
**Cajun Man** ~ SDMB Moderator
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### Author:  [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/images-of-war-what-cnn-does-not-show-you/166750/19 "2003-04-06T01:36:17Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Ogre \*
> \*\*Oh, I realize that, **Revtim**. I just wonder where your mortal concern for the Iraqi populace was when little Achmed and his friends went through the plastic shredder, followed by their teddy bears, in 1994. Or when Uday had his “millionth customer award” at the Nasiriya Rape Camp. \*\*
I opened a thread in GQ a month or so ago asking for any evidence of the infamous plastic shredder, and no one came up with anything. (IIRC, one poster even tried to find a commercial plastic shredder large enough to fit a man with no luck.) We all agreed that Saddam was definitly capable of such an atrocity, but thus far, it may be one of those apocryphal tales, such as the one about Iraqi soldiers dumping babies out of incubators. If you recall, that one was testified to by the daughter of an ambassador before the US Congress. It wasn’t until much later that we found out it was untrue. (And I;d gander to say that a lot of people still believe it, not having heard the retractions.)
All I’m saying is that while we know Saddam and his son are evil sons-of-bitches, we shouldn’t just automatically believe every story of rumored atrocities without some proof.