# Iman Shilling for De Beers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652 "2003-04-14T15:32:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/1 "2003-04-14T15:32:26Z")
African-born model Iman is spokeswoman for the South African diamond company De Beers LV, and says in a recent magazine interview that both Melson Mandela and President Thabo Mbeki assured her it was alright: “The more I thought about it, it absolutely made sense. I was born in Africa, and it’s an African company.” I profess myself totally ignorant on this subject, but was under the impression that De Beers was pretty much a villain where Africans are concerned: any thoughts on this? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/2 "2003-04-14T16:38:58Z")
I thought that working conditions for diamond miners are pretty bad, but on the other hand, they probably bring money to people that wouldn’t have any otherwise. But I think they pay pretty bad, too. I wonder why Iman feels the need to do that for a living. I thought she and David were veeeerrrry comfortable, what, with the castle and all! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/3 "2003-04-14T17:35:31Z")
DeBeers is “pretty much a villain”- you don’t need to add “where Africans are concerned”. They are an evil monopoly, with policies that would have them all sitting in prison in the USA (or at least the company broken up in many smaller companies). I guess you can say there are many other companies that treat their black workers as bad as DeBeers does- but that isn’t exactly praise. Note also- the whole bit about the “traditonal” “diamond engagement rings”- was made up by Debeers. The wholesale price of diamonds is also kept artificially high by Debeers- some estimates would have the “fair market” price be not too much higher than a good CZ. Although I dunno about THAT, the price is certainly highly inflated. There is no reason to buy a diamond over a CZ- except Debeers propaganda. And your CZ isn’t paid for by the sweat, tears & blood of some poor African. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/4 "2003-04-14T18:10:30Z")
So . . . Why would Nelson Mandela and President Mbeki tell Iman she should do ads for De Beers? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/5 "2003-04-14T18:13:02Z")
Gue$$. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/6 "2003-04-14T18:20:07Z")
DeBeer’s controls 85% of the diamond trade world wide. Illegal diamond sales have kept the terrorist armies in Angola, Sierra Leone, and Congo supplied with weapons, vehicles, and medical supplies for over 10 years. Despite DeBeer’s claim that all the diamonds that they purchased are “clean”, they have also claimed that it is impossible to tell where uncut diamonds originate. (The validity of this point has been argued) You can’t have it both ways. There are huge gaps between the amount of diamonds reported mined legally by those countries and the amount that are actually offered for sale in Antwerp. For example, Sierra Leone officially exported only 8,500 carats in 1998, but Belgium recorded 770,000 carats coming from that country. So where did they go and who purchased them? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/7 "2003-04-14T20:29:01Z")
I’ll admit it. When I first read the title, I thought “An imam shouldn’t be selling beer. That’s a violation of the Koran.” ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/8 "2003-04-14T22:17:52Z")
I don’t have a cite for you, but I think that the answer to the OP lies in the person of Harry Oppenheimer, the “owner” of DeBeers and a number of related companies. I think the largest is called Minorco. Anyway, Oppenheimer was fabulously wealthy and powerful – he had a huge stake in South Africa’s mineral resources – and I think the story goes that he had the clout necessary to bring Mandela and de Klerk to the table at the same time. I do not know the specifics – nor do I know if they have been written – but it would make sense that Mandela would look favorably upon the businesses of the fellow who made the peaceful transition possible. Even if the fellow were dead (he is) and the business’s elbows a bit sharp. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/9 "2003-04-14T22:20:17Z")
Nemo: Are you kidding? I had the same thought. Seriously. It was only on a second reading that I got it right. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/10 "2003-04-14T22:22:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > \*\*I’ll admit it. When I first read the title, I thought “An imam shouldn’t be selling beer. That’s a violation of the Koran.” \*\* My first thought was of radio personality Don Imus, who calls himself “the I-man”. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/11 "2003-04-15T13:06:37Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\* both Melson Mandela and President Thabo Mbeki assured her it was alright._\* This set off my bullshit radar. Are we supposed to just take her word for it? I can’t imagine that (a) she bothered to ask them or (b) those guys would approve. ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/12 "2003-04-15T19:50:51Z")
I can’t imagine why anyone would be surprised that a fashion model would be working for the manufacturer of luxury goods. That’s what models do. With a few exceptions (fine wines, for instance) luxury goods are produced by a labor-friendly methods. > [@](#): > > Note also- the whole bit about the “traditonal” “diamond engagement rings”- was made up by Debeers. Sorry, not true. Dates back to 1644, at least, in Western society. Check your OED, for starters. DeBeers is a nasty company, but so is Tommy Helfinger (sp?) and pretty much anyone who advertised in the original Sears catalog, which starting selling around the same time the DeBeers people started advertising. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iman-shilling-for-de-beers/168652/13 "2003-04-15T21:04:20Z")
I think DeBeers did a lot to popularize the diamond engagement ring, but it was indeed done before they started hyping it. From [the SD archives](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mdiamond.html) quote: “But, in answer to your question, it wasn’t until 1477 when the Archduke Maximillian of Austria gave Mary of Burgundy a diamond ring to mark their betrothal that the tradition of diamond engagement rings began. The reason the ring is placed on the third finger of a woman’s left hand is due to an early Egyptian belief that the venas amoris or “vein of love” runs directly from the heart to the tip of that finger.” I believe DeBeers was the one who started the whole three months’ salary nonsense, though.