# Immigrant as a U.S. State Governor? Has this ever happened before? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 11, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829 "2003-10-11T12:15:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/21 "2003-10-11T16:45:32Z")
**John Sununu** was born in Havana, Cuba and served 3 terms as New Hampshire Governor. Seems this thread has now been hijacked to the eligibility of Presidential candidates. Anyway, an interesting “problem” occurred in 1964. **Barry Goldwater** , the Arizona Senator ran for US President. However, he was born before 1912 when Arizona was a _territory_ and not a state. This raised some doubt about his eligibility as a candidate, but eventually it became a “non-issue”. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/22 "2003-10-11T17:02:23Z")
John G. Downey, governor of California from 1/14/1860 to 1/10/1862 was born in Roscommon County, Ireland. Romualdo Pacheco, governor from 2/27/1875 to 12/9/1875 was born in Santa Barbara when it was part of Mexico. He then spent most of his childhood in Hawai’i, which was an independent country at the time. The majority of governors of California have not been born in the state. The last governor of California who was born in the state was Jerry Brown. Davis, Wilson, and Deukmejian all were born elsewhere. Reagan was from Illinois. Pat Brown was a native Californian as was Earl Warren. Earl Warren is the only governor of California who was born in Los Angeles. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/23 "2003-10-11T17:43:57Z")
When will people learn not to argue with Bricker about legal issues? As the man said, how many court cases do you need? The matter has been settled definitively. The fact that someone met someone who was misinformed doesn’t change the fact that they were misinformed. “Natural-born” simply means not naturalized, someone who is a US citizen at birth. People born in the US are citizens at birth, and children of US citizens are citizens at birth no matter where they are born. So children of career US diplomats born oversees are natural born citizens, and eligible to run for the presidency. Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/24 "2003-10-11T19:16:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bienville \* > \*\*Have there been any other U.S. State Governors who were not born in the United States? \*\* I would guess that the first 2 or 3 governors of every one of the original 13 colonies was not born in the “United States”. They were either immigrants or were born in British colonies, and held British citizenship. That’s why, 11 years later, they included that little bit in the Constitution about “or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution”. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/25 "2003-10-11T19:45:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Krokodil \* > \*\*I did think it through, **Cardinal**. They have all the same rights as folks who were born here–except for that niggling solitary one. > > I repeat, I’ll concede the point if one of the people actually affected by this odd rule (foreign-born child of US citizens) posts here and tells me different. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable standard, and I’d be very surprised if no SDMB regulars fit the bill. None of the other cites provided is all that compelling, IMO.\*\* I think it’s quite a silly standard, actually, since the only way such a person would know any better than **Bricker** would be if they had run for President and been denied the opportunity to run, or serve upon election, as a result of being born abroad. So, did your friends run for President? How would any of your friends KNOW they couldn’t run for President unless they had tried? It’s not as if they got a registered mail from the State Department saying “Hello, you can vote but not run for President.” Bricker’s cites are authoritative and, to my mind, quite convincing. If you have evidence to the contrary, post it. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/26 "2003-10-11T20:43:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Telemark \* > **_Krokodil_, what would it take to convince you that you are completely wrong?** _(Eyes roll audibly)_ Any of the above statements, coming from somebody who: a) was born outside the United States b) has two parents who are natural-born US citizens. I’ve said this twice already and it seems pretty reasonable to me. Does it strike you as odd that no one with those qualifications has posted yet? > [@](#): > > \*\*So, the onus is on you to come up with something, anything, that supports your claim. \*\* Here’s something: **No foreign-born child of two US citizens has come forward here to tell me I’m wrong yet.** Bricker’s cites convinve me mainly that this question keeps coming up, not that it has been definitively settled. The next person I reply to in this thread will have to at least claim to be a foreign-born child of two US citizens, with an opinion one way or the other; frankly, I’m not interested in anyone else’s rehashed opinion. It’s like a man’s estimation of how much Endemetriosis hurts: Fascinating, but since it doesn’t apply to you personally, your guess is really no better than mine. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/27 "2003-10-11T21:10:45Z")
Here you go, **Krokodil** : my father was born in California, my mom in Illinois, I was born in Canada (Manitoba, if it makes a difference.) I’ve lived as a dual citizen of Canada and the United States for my entire life. Every knowledgeable source I have read on the subject says that I’m permitted to hold the office of President should I have the time and volition to do so (or at least, I can once I’m 35.) Here’s a good [link](http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html#president) (part of an excellent FAQ on dual citizenship) on the subject. Happy now? ---
**Author:** ![JimOfAllTrades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@JimOfAllTrades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimOfAllTrades)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/28 "2003-10-11T22:00:40Z")
My father was born in Canada. His parents were US citizens, his mother was born in the US, but his father was born a citizen of the UK and became a US citizen as a young man. My grandparents were on an extended business trip in Canada when my dad was born. My father could have been president. I remember him saying that he had had this exact discussion with someone who thought he couldn’t be president because his folks were outside the US when he was born. My dad told him (quite rightly, IMO) that he was mistaken. There. You have testimony from someone who was born outside the US that they were eligible to be president. How is this is any better than citing case law? You’re just plain wrong about this, give it up. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/29 "2003-10-11T22:16:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wolf\_meister \* > \*\*Seems this thread has now been hijacked to the eligibility of Presidential candidates. Anyway, an interesting “problem” occurred in 1964. **Barry Goldwater** , the Arizona Senator ran for US President. However, he was born before 1912 when Arizona was a _territory_ and not a state. This raised some doubt about his eligibility as a candidate, but eventually it became a “non-issue”. \*\* If being born in a U.S. territory didn’t confer U.S. citizenship on him, then how was he eligible to run for the U.S. Senate? Citizenship is a requirement there as well: [Art. I, § 3](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/articles.html) requires that Senators must be “nine Years a Citizen of the United States.” Did Mr. Goldwater ever apply for naturalization prior to running for the Senate? If he never was naturalised, then we have two options:[ul][li] he wasn’t a citizen, and sat illegally in the Senate for twenty-odd years; or,[/li] he was a natural-born citizen, and was eligible to hold the presidency.[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/30 "2003-10-11T22:23:37Z")
If I got malaria, I would rely on the medical opinion of a doctor even if that doctor has never had malaria. Fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/31 "2003-10-11T22:57:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Krokodil \* > \*\*_(Eyes roll audibly)_ Any of the above statements, coming from somebody who: > a) was born outside the United States > b) has two parents who are natural-born US citizens. I’ve said this twice already and it seems pretty reasonable to me. Does it strike you as odd that no one with those qualifications has posted yet? So lawyers and judges are not qualified to issue opinions of law? And someone born outside the USA is qualified by that mere act to issue opinions of law? This has to be the stupidest way of judging the reliability of an opinion. Add me to the voices who say Krokodil is dead wrong. This has been discussed quite a few times before. Where do you get the notion that “natural born” means “born on US soil”? You obviously do not have a clue. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/32 "2003-10-12T01:38:57Z")
**Northern Piper** Arizona did become a _state_ in 1912. So, Barry Goldwater was a resident of the United States long before he was even able to vote. Thus this presented _no_ problem for his US Senate eligibility. From what you posted, a US Senator is not required to be _born_ in the United States. As previously stated, US Presidential eligibility requires being a US citizen from birth. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/33 "2003-10-12T02:49:39Z")
> [@](#): > > (Eyes roll audibly) Any of the above statements, coming from somebody who: > a) was born outside the United States > b) has two parents who are natural-born US citizens. I’ve said this twice already and it seems pretty reasonable to me. Does it strike you as odd that no one with those qualifications has posted yet? I’ve known multiple people who were born out of the United States to American citizen parents, because those parents were missionaries. NONE of them have EVER mentioned IN ANY way ANY kind of problem they had to ANYTHING related AT ALL to being an American citizen. They have U.S. passports, they can vote, etc. Most people have no idea they’ve even been out of the country at all. The point is that they have all the rights of American citizens, INHERENTLY. They did abosolutely NOTHING to get them once they returned to the States. This proves they were citizens to begin with, and are natural born citizens. Or, you could just go look up the legal cites posted here, and dry up. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/34 "2003-10-12T02:58:13Z")
Madeleine Kunin, the former Governor of Vermont, was originally from Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/35 "2003-10-12T03:38:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bienville \* > The Governor-Elect of my state was born in Austria. Come on. Don’t keep us in the dark. Which state are you in!!! ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/36 "2003-10-12T06:12:53Z")
Arthur MacArthur, Acting Wisconsin Governor 1856-1856, was born in Glasgow, Scotland. Edward Salomon, Wisconsin Governor 1862-1864, was born in Stroebeck, Prussia, and was buried in Frankfurt, Germany. William E. Smith, Wisconsin Governor 1878-1882, was born near Inverness, Scotland. James O. Davidson, Wisconsin Governor 1906-1911, was born in Sogn, Norway. [Julius P. Heil](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/archive/covers/0,16641,1101390116,00.html), Wisconsin Governor 1939-1943, was born in Duesmond an der Mosel, Germany. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/37 "2003-10-12T06:51:27Z")
I’ve already posted on this, but let me expand: I’m the mother of children born to **one** US citizen parent. Their father is a Norwegian citizen. I lived in the US until the age of 21. My children have had US passports since they were a few months old. They have notarized certificates with the grandiose title Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America, issued by the US Department of State and signed by the US consul. The information pamphlet that was sent with the application for these documents, which also comes from the State Department, stresses that parents are not applying for citizenship; they are providing proof that the children are and always have been citizens of the United States. QED. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/38 "2003-10-12T07:02:22Z")
I answered this earlier, but the link to the official webpage of the Governor’s Office of California will need to update the information about John G. Downey [http://www.governor.ca.gov/govsite/govsgallery/h/biography/governor\_7.html](http://www.governor.ca.gov/govsite/govsgallery/h/biography/governor_7.html) ---
**Author:** ![cole\_burner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@cole\_burner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cole_burner)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/39 "2003-10-12T17:10:28Z")
I was born in the U.S. Naval Hospital in Keflavik Iceland. My parents were both U.S. citizens. I admit I am not eligible to be the President. But that’s only because I’m not 35. When I reach 35 I am eligible because I am a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. I had this conversation once in fifth grade with some idiot who tried to tell me otherwise but was corrected by me and our social studies teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2003, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829/40 "2003-10-12T17:38:29Z")
Knute Nelson, Minnesota Governor 1893-1895, was born in Vosse Elven, Norway. John Lind, Minnesota Governor 1899-1901, was born in Kanna, Smaland, Sweden. Adolph O. Eberhart, Minnesota Governor 1909-1915, was born in Sweden. Hjalmar Petersen, Minnesota Governor 1936-1937, was born in Denmark. Roger Allin, North Dakota Governor 1895-1897, was born in England. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrant-as-a-u-s-state-governor-has-this-ever-happened-before/206829.md?page=3)