# Immigrants who enter the country illegally and the costs they impose **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 29, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124 "2011-04-29T04:21:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/41 "2011-05-01T23:54:15Z")
> [@chen019](#): > > my apologies, the 160,000 figure was in error. It should be about $126,000 (or [$89,000 adjusted from 1996 to 2011 dollars](http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/)). > > The $89,000 figure is on [page 334](http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=5779&page=334#p2000633a9960334001) of the report. These figures may underestimate the costs. Since this study was made the costs of welfare services to lower income people has further expanded, especially medicaid and s-chip, and may go further yet. did you miss the part of your cite that says immigration is a net economonic benefit for domestic residents? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/42 "2011-05-02T00:23:06Z")
> [@treis](#): > > did you miss the part of your cite that says immigration is a net economonic benefit for domestic residents? This thread is about illegal immigration, which tends to comprise “unskilled immigrants”. The consequence of unskilled immigration is massively [higher welfare expenditure](http://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011). ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/43 "2011-05-02T00:40:44Z")
> [@treis](#): > > did you miss the part of your cite that says immigration is a net economonic benefit for domestic residents? Is there a robust study of the net benefits to domestic residents? That is, if a large percentage of workers earn depressed wages, the employer’s savings is ultimately reflected in the supply curve–shifting it to the left. Has anyone taken a broad look at how that affects the economy? I’m assuming my weekly grocery bill is less expensive, that my neighbours’ landscaping bill is lower, and that the general contractor pays less payroll taxes (in both the cases where he pays under the table or pays depressed wages because the undocumented alien has no recourse). It would be interesting to see how the overall economic benefits compare to the overall economic costs. Or is this a subject for a parallel GD thread? ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/44 "2011-05-03T03:04:25Z")
> [@toofs](#): > > When will the large flow of illegal immigration from Mexico _end_? With ongoing drug violence our southern neighbor shows no realistic signs of improving living conditions. I, too, would leave if I was a Mexican national. > > There must be control of this illegal movement of persons. I am Mexican and have absolutely no intentions of leaving. And there are many, many more of my compatriots who feel the same. ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/45 "2011-05-03T03:37:14Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > I am Mexican and have absolutely no intentions of leaving. And there are many, many more of my compatriots who feel the same. I am not asking you or your compatriots to leave. I am asking when the large flow of **illegal** immigration from Mexico will _end._ I also acknowledge that if I were a Mexican citizen, I would also head north, especially in light of the worsening violence within Mexico. I see the reasons to leave. I want a healthy, safe, economically powerful Mexico as a neighbor, not what we have now. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/46 "2011-05-03T05:36:59Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > This thread is about illegal immigration, which tends to comprise “unskilled immigrants”. The consequence of unskilled immigration is massively [higher welfare expenditure](http://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011). The consequence of unskilled _native born_ workers graduating from _poorly funded inner city schools_ is often higher welfare., too. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/47 "2011-05-03T05:42:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The consequence of unskilled _native born_ workers graduating from _poorly funded inner city schools_ is often higher welfare., too. That seems a bit of a canard to me. Going right back to the Coleman report in the 60’s, the idea of poorly funded schools explaining poor achievement hasn’t really stood up. The family background, aptitude and motivation of the students are far more [important factors](http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=vgW11iNcl5cC&pg=PA206&lpg=PA206&dq=bad+students+not+bad+schools&source=bl&ots=VFfLStxuBj&sig=qnWgkDFHnwPIPRddj90eE2Q5qv0&hl=en#v=onepage&q=motivation&f=false). ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/48 "2011-05-03T14:05:41Z")
So is the issue unskilled Latino workers? Anyone have data on how the children of illegal immigrants from China do in school? There is a math joke in there if you look hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/49 "2011-05-03T14:17:00Z")
Let’s re-direct all funding designed to fight “illegal immigration” and turn them into tax paying citizens. Presto, we still have the net positives of cheap labor and we also have the net positive of not spending money fruitlessly trying to stop something akin to prohibition. As an aside, let’s also legalize and tax marijuana. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/50 "2011-05-03T14:36:15Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > “Illegals” (sic) do pay taxes, although if they work under the table they’re probably paying less. > > Contrary to popular belief, you can’t just “get health care” in this country, be you a citizen, legal immigrant, or illegally-present alien. > > The US also does not have “welfare,” so “illegals” (sic) cannot be getting it; it does not exist. I thought he was joking. Illegals also pay sales tax when they purchase stuff. And they do contribute something - their labor. You can just get health care though, simply by walking into an emergency room. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/51 "2011-05-03T14:55:27Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > This thread is about illegal immigration, which tends to comprise “unskilled immigrants”. The consequence of unskilled immigration is massively [higher welfare expenditure](http://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011). Huh? If the cite isn’t relevant for this thread, why did you include it in your OP? Your practice of citing some huge document without a specific location is growing tiresome. Anyways, your cite does not say what you said it does. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/52 "2011-05-03T15:07:36Z")
We’ve done this before. Illegal immigrants are a net benefit to the US. However, they are a net drag on a few states such as California (mainly via costs associated with education of their children). Illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. Thing is they cannot get many of the benefits (such as Social Security) that paying taxes gets a US citizen. So, they put money in and do not take it out. > [@](#): > > **Undocumented Taxpayers** > > Most arguments against illegal immigration begin with the premise that the undocumented don’t pay income taxes, and that they therefore take more in services than they contribute. However, IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year.[12] Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.[12] Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security.[13] > > The Internal Revenue Service issues an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have Federal tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code. Federal tax law prohibits the IRS from sharing data with other government agencies including the INS. In 2006 1.4 million people used ITIN when filing taxes, of which more than half were illegal immigrants.[14] > [edit] > > **Undocumented Workers Subsidize Social Security** > > Illegal immigrants pay social security payroll taxes but are not eligible for benefits. During 2006, Standard & Poor’s analysts wrote: “Each year, for example, the U.S. Social Security Administration maintains roughly $6 billion to $7 billion of Social Security contributions in an “earnings suspense file” – an account for W-2 tax forms that cannot be matched to the correct Social Security number. The vast majority of these numbers are attributable to undocumented workers who will never claim their benefits.”[10] > > The Social Security Administration has stated that it believes unauthorized work by non-citizens is a major cause of wage items being posted as erroneous wage reports instead of on an individual’s earnings record.[15] When Social Security numbers are already in use; names do not match the numbers or the numbers are fake, or the person of record is too old, young, dead etc., the earnings reported to the Social Security Agency are put in an Earnings Suspense file [ESF]. The Social Security spends about $100 million a year and corrects all but about 2% of these. From Tax Years (TY) 1937 through 2003 the ESF had accumulated about 255 million mismatched wage reports, representing $520 billion in wages and about $75 billion in employment taxes paid into the over $1.5 trillion in the Social Security Trust funds. As of October 2005, approximately 8.8 million wage reports, representing $57.8 billion in wages remained unresolved in the suspense file for TY 2003.[15] > [edit] > > **Undocumented Workers May Depress Prices for all US Consumers** > > NPR reported in March 2006 that when the wages of lower-skilled workers go down, the rest of America benefits by paying lower prices for things like restaurant meals, agricultural produce and construction. The economic impact of illegal immigration is far smaller than other trends in the economy, such as the increasing use of automation in manufacturing or the growth in global trade. Those two factors have a much bigger impact on wages, prices and the health of the U.S. economy. But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard’s George Borjas says the average American’s wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration.[2] > > SOURCE: [Economic impact of illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States#Economic_Benefits_of_Undocumented_Immigrants) ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/53 "2011-05-03T17:11:18Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > So if the average highschool dropout produces a dollar of GDP, and the average highschool graduate produces three dollars, there’s a loss of 2 dollars for dropping out. But if someone sneaks into the country and drops out of highschool, thats still a gain of one dollar for the economy, not a loss of two dollars, since if they never entered the country at all they would’ve produced 0 dollars of GDP. But if he gets $1.50 in resources, that’s a net loss of 50 cents for all those of us who were already here. You have to figure in the extra burden placed on infrastructure–he’ll need water, use the roads, consume electricity, use health services, use police and fire services, use the schools, and so forth. Those costs are difficult to calculate and usually aren’t considered when people are figuring the costs of illegal immigration. What’s more, those resources will be denied to the citizens who had a legitimate right to them. You also need to take into account that illegal immigration increases racial and ethnic tensions, and creates an interest group based on ethnicity which will try to divert as many resources to itself as possible. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/54 "2011-05-03T17:28:09Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Let’s re-direct all funding designed to fight “illegal immigration” and turn them into tax paying citizens. Presto, we still have the net positives of cheap labor and we also have the net positive of not spending money fruitlessly trying to stop something akin to prohibition. And we’ll add a massive new burden on Social Security and Medicare, and many other social services. We can’t take everybody who wants to come. If illegal aliens keep coming at the present rate, sooner or later they’ll swamp the boat, at least on a local level if not a national level. > [@Kearsen](#): > > As an aside, let’s also legalize and tax marijuana. Music to my ears. By all means, let’s. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/55 "2011-05-03T19:39:52Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I thought he was joking. > > Illegals also pay sales tax when they purchase stuff. And they do contribute something - their labor. > > You can just get health care though, simply by walking into an emergency room. I don’t know about any other state but this is simply not true in most cases in TN. You can get emergency care to the point of being stabilized and then you’re sent on but if you come in without an emergency you get triage and referral to clinics. Clinics that charge. And then you are billed before you walk out, just like everyone else. Been there, done that, will be paying our ER bill for the next seven years. By the way, we pay income taxes with his ITIN. You can’t get EIC with an ITIN. We do not get anything back. We probably could get something when we file if we paid in more, but what’s the point of that? Now I get some back on MY work, but I’m a natural born citizen. I don’t know about anywhere else, but I know my SO gets work like other illegal immigrants by standing out in the parking lot in the local pick up place until someone comes along with an offer. Nobody is pushing the Americans away and I know because I’ve been out there and done it myself. They just rarely go there, probably because these are the crappiest jobs for the lowest pay. But for my SO and plenty like him fifty dollars for a day of crap work is better than nothing. As for where the elderly illegal immigrants go, we have dozens in our neighborhood right now with no place to go because their tents and lean-tos are under water right now because of flooding under the Wolf River bridge. They won’t take charity, preferring to dig through dumpsters for a bite to eat. They refuse medical care until someone has to take them away in an ambulance. More often they’ll be found dead in their tents or off in the bushes like the guy they found last week in the same area. Not all suffer this fate of course. Some aren’t fast enough to run so they get deported and dumped on the other side of the border to die. But I’m sure some of them somehow get some sort of social security checks because everyone in every immigration discussion makes this claim, so I stick with my area and information I’ve gathered through living through it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124/56 "2011-05-03T21:32:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > We’ve done this before. > > Illegal immigrants are a net benefit to the US. However, they are a net drag on a few states such as California (mainly via costs associated with education of their children). > > Illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. Thing is they cannot get many of the benefits (such as Social Security) that paying taxes gets a US citizen. So, they put money in and do not take it out. Some pay taxes, not all. And in addition to education costs, there are [medical costs](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-01-21-immigrant-healthcare_N.htm), [incarceration](http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersffec) and [public assistance](http://www.fairus.org/site/News2/708226221?page=NewsArticle&id=23190&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1761)costs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigrants-who-enter-the-country-illegally-and-the-costs-they-impose/580124.md?page=2)