# Immigration and the 2016 election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 25, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484 "2015-06-25T23:06:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/61 "2015-07-07T14:10:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The intelligent and wise Ann Colter had a great line last night. To paraphrase: > > “Saying that fences don’t work is ridiculous. It’s like saying buckets don’t work.” > > HA! If she is wrong about fences, there are an awful lot of people, companies and governments wasting an awful lot of money buying all these things that don’t work. How well _is_ the fence working? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/62 "2015-07-07T14:19:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How well _is_ the fence working? :dubious: That just means we need a BIGGER fence. With electricity running through it, and acid moats, and pits of rabid dogs, and armed guards every 12 feet, and an angel with a flaming sword at every crossing point. Because that’s what a fiscally responsible government would spend its money on. ---
**Author:** ![zwede](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ac91a4/32.png) [@zwede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwede)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/63 "2015-07-07T14:47:58Z")
If they ever built a fence that actually worked republican politicians would send out people to cut holes in it. Republican politicians have no intention of **actually** securing the border. The business leaders that own them want the cheap labor. The grand standing is just for the low-information base. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/64 "2015-07-07T15:31:31Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Even if that were true—which I do not grant—it would be in the short term. In the long term, anything that **keeps** America so inhospitable to immigrants that they leave of their own volition will be even worse for us who were born here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/65 "2015-07-07T15:34:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How well _is_ the fence working? :dubious: Effectively but imperfectly; see post #45. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/66 "2015-07-07T15:37:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The intelligent and wise Ann Colter . . . In the future please be sure to include a 😉 when you post things like that, or else Dopers might think, [you know,](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) that you meant it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/67 "2015-07-07T17:35:34Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The intelligent and wise Ann Colter had a great line last night. To paraphrase: > > “Saying that fences don’t work is ridiculous. It’s like saying buckets don’t work.” > > HA! If she is wrong about fences, there are an awful lot of people, companies and governments wasting an awful lot of money buying all these things that don’t work. Buckets would not have worked on the Titanic, just to give an example. The point is that the “crush” of people trying to get in could overpower any possible fence. Where there’s enough will, people will find a way around it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/68 "2015-07-07T17:38:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In the long term, anything that **keeps** America so inhospitable to immigrants that they leave of their own volition will be even worse for us who were born here. Depends. If it’s biometric entry/exist systems, good border security, and no jobs available to illegal workers, that’s pretty inhospitable without affecting legal residents. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/69 "2015-07-07T17:41:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Depends. If it’s biometric entry/exist systems, good border security, and no jobs available to illegal workers, that’s pretty inhospitable without affecting legal residents. The first two would do nothing to affect those already here, and the “no jobs” one is not realistic. “Fewer jobs” might be achievable, but it could seriously harm some industries, especially in the agricultural sector. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/70 "2015-07-07T17:43:21Z")
E-verify is very effective and should be required of all companies. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/71 "2015-07-07T22:52:28Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That just means we need a BIGGER fence. With electricity running through it, and acid moats, and pits of rabid dogs, and armed guards every 12 feet, and an angel with a flaming sword at every crossing point. Now _you’re_ getting it. Though I’d position the guards further apart and give them sniper rifles—you know, to cut the costs yore so concerned about—and replace the angels with trained attack wolverines. The acid boat is a nice touch though. Should save a lot of money. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/72 "2015-07-07T22:53:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In the long term, anything that **keeps** America so inhospitable to immigrants that they leave of their own volition will be even worse for us who were born here. More of your bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/73 "2015-07-07T22:59:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The first two would do nothing to affect those already here, and the “no jobs” one is not realistic. “Fewer jobs” might be achievable, but it could seriously harm some industries, especially in the agricultural sector. This keeps getting brought up. Stop it. If there wasn’t an artificially low cost to do the farm work due to illegals, a combination of two things would happen. One is that technology would be developed to do some of those jobs. The other is that the cost for the things that still require the type of labor farmers use now would rise. People doing the picking would be making more money. You want top increase wages? That’s how you do it, reduce the supply of workers by eliminating those who willingly work for wages well below what a job would normally demand. Concerned about cost? Don’t fret. Labor costs are only 10% of what goes into things like a head of lettuce. So, you could DOUBLE the wages paid and a head of lettuce would go up from $1.00 to $1.10. Nuts would be hit harder, since labor for them come in at about 30%. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/74 "2015-07-07T23:11:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This keeps getting brought up. Stop it. If there wasn’t an artificially low cost to do the farm work due to illegals, a combination of two things would happen. One is that technology would be developed to do some of those jobs. The other is that the cost for the things that still require the type of labor farmers use now would rise. People doing the picking would be making more money. You want top increase wages? That’s how you do it, reduce the supply of workers by eliminating those who willingly work for wages well below what a job would normally demand. > > Concerned about cost? Don’t fret. Labor costs are only 10% of what goes into things like a head of lettuce. So, you could DOUBLE the wages paid and a head of lettuce would go up from $1.00 to $1.10. Nuts would be hit harder, since labor for them come in at about 30%. [I’m not so sure](http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy). I think that it’s very likely that very-low skill (no HS degree) workers’ wages are hurt somewhat by illegal immigration, but that seems to be more than balanced by the economic benefits they provide. And from a humanitarian perspective, I’m inclined to err on the side of people who are mostly non-violent and hard-working and would mostly make great Americans. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/75 "2015-07-08T00:06:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The first two would do nothing to affect those already here, and the “no jobs” one is not realistic. “Fewer jobs” might be achievable, but it could seriously harm some industries, especially in the agricultural sector. I’ve heard that if you walk into any restaurant kitchen in LA and shout _La Migra!_ there will be no one left to cook dinner. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/76 "2015-07-08T00:09:25Z")
Here’s some [myths and facts about immigration to the U.S.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Immigration_myths_and_facts) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484/77 "2015-07-08T20:35:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [I’m not so sure](http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy). I think that it’s very likely that very-low skill (no HS degree) workers’ wages are hurt somewhat by illegal immigration, but that seems to be more than balanced by the economic benefits they provide. And from a humanitarian perspective, I’m inclined to err on the side of people who are mostly non-violent and hard-working and would mostly make great Americans. Now you’re talking my language, but we need to have an immigration policy that makes sense, not an immigration policy that is based on political expediency: limiting immigration well below demand but letting those who make it in stay as long as they behave. It’s a very convenient policy for peoples who share a land border with us, not so much for Asians, Africans, and Caribbean islanders. We should instead have an “open borders with exceptions” policy: Anyone who wants to come to America to live, work, or go to school can do so, if: 1. They have no criminal record back home and maintain a clean record here. 2. They have no communicable diseases(STDs included) 3. They will be ineligible for any government benefits like food stamps until they have been employed for at least two years. As for citizenship, since all non-criminal, non-diseased immigrants would be legal, the usual naturalization process would apply to all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-and-the-2016-election/723484.md?page=3)