# Immigration for the best and brightest **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472 "2011-10-22T21:00:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/41 "2011-10-26T02:14:21Z")
Not to mention that legal immigrants and temporary residents generally DO pay taxes, so this whole rigmarole about being a taxpayer is truly irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/42 "2011-10-26T03:26:31Z")
> [@Cyclone](#): > > Thanks for the information… I am sure you have **links** to prove your statements… I thought not. No matter how many random ellipses you add, it’s not going to fool anyone into thinking you waited for him to post a link, genius. However, since you ask: [have](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sergey+brin) [some](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Grove) [links](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hector_Ruiz). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/43 "2011-10-26T06:25:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No matter how many random ellipses you add, it’s not going to fool anyone into thinking you waited for him to post a link, genius. > > However, since you ask: [have](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sergey+brin) [some](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Grove) [links](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hector_Ruiz). That animation was awesome. Yes, Andy is an immigrant, but I’m really referring to the very large percentage of immigrants who do design in Silicon Valley, and who I work with. Starting from my office, and heading left, we have me (non-immigrant) Sweden, England, India, England, China, India, China, France, India, India, India - and so on. In this case, my post is my cite. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/44 "2011-10-27T23:06:23Z")
How would the system play out in terms of defining the rules? Would a PhD pretty much give you guaranteed immigration acceptance? Would immigration officials review school transcripts, faculty recommendations, and academic publishing history and give the person a “smartness” or “academic accomplishment” score (with either the top X getting in each year or letting everyone with at least a minimum score in) Would work history (outside of academia) count? E.g. you were an integral engineer on \. Would the self-educated or irregularly or informally educated people get to take a test to qualify (e.g. try for a “Immigration Educational Development” Diploma) E.g. Jose: “I want to move to the US, but failed my “Highly Educated” evaluation.” Pedro: “How?” Jose: “I have a BS, MS, and wrote 5 academic articles for \. The BS gives me 5 points, the MS gives me 10, and each article is worth 2 points, but the cutoff score for a US visa is 30. So, I either need to publish 3 more papers or go for my PhD, which is worth another 10.” ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/45 "2011-10-28T00:01:01Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > How would the system play out in terms of defining the rules? Would a PhD pretty much give you guaranteed immigration acceptance? Would immigration officials review school transcripts, faculty recommendations, and academic publishing history and give the person a “smartness” or “academic accomplishment” score (with either the top X getting in each year or letting everyone with at least a minimum score in) Would work history (outside of academia) count? E.g. you were an integral engineer on \. Would the self-educated or irregularly or informally educated people get to take a test to qualify (e.g. try for a “Immigration Educational Development” Diploma) > > E.g. > > Jose: “I want to move to the US, but failed my “Highly Educated” evaluation.” > Pedro: “How?” > Jose: “I have a BS, MS, and wrote 5 academic articles for \. The BS gives me 5 points, the MS gives me 10, and each article is worth 2 points, but the cutoff score for a US visa is 30. So, I either need to publish 3 more papers or go for my PhD, which is worth another 10.” Do you mean how does it work now? Because that I can more or less answer (and it’s nothing nearly as straightforward as a point system). Or do you mean how would it work in an ideal universe? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/46 "2011-10-28T00:06:26Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Do you mean how does it work now? Because that I can more or less answer (and it’s nothing nearly as straightforward as a point system). Or do you mean how would it work in an ideal universe? Basically, how it would work based on the OP’s idea. The OP seems to be proposing that high levels of education or achievement should count for more “points” to qualify for immigration. I’m asking how anyone would propose that it might work out in terms of policy and real life. That is, you can SAY “Easier immigration for the best and brightest”, but without rules regarding how smart you have to be before the extra points kick in, or how much weight it gives you (such as trumping all other criteria and getting you in automatically if you are smart enough), or whether it gives you a super point boost (on an existing points based immigration system) based on criteria. That is, how do you take the OP’s idea and amend immigration law or administrative policy to effectuate it? ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/47 "2011-10-28T00:40:33Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Basically, how it would work based on the OP’s idea. The OP seems to be proposing that high levels of education or achievement should count for more “points” to qualify for immigration. I’m asking how anyone would propose that it might work out in terms of policy and real life. That is, you can SAY “Easier immigration for the best and brightest”, but without rules regarding how smart you have to be before the extra points kick in, or how much weight it gives you (such as trumping all other criteria and getting you in automatically if you are smart enough), or whether it gives you a super point boost (on an existing points based immigration system) based on criteria. > > That is, how do you take the OP’s idea and amend immigration law or administrative policy to effectuate it? Let’s get to where the rubber hits the road. This is capitalism we are talking about. A workforce is needed to be available when there are job openings. If we don’t have welders when we need them, we just approve some visas, green cards, whatever it takes. We are not doing gracious work for the unfortunate of the world here. We never have, immigration is a back up workforce. The last thing we are looking for is more welfare recipients, which is why the political focus on dumping illegal aliens back over the border. Like we need more slums! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/48 "2011-10-28T02:15:01Z")
Who were the pilgrims “backup” for, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/49 "2011-10-28T05:06:32Z")
> [@Cyclone](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn73SyKBMio](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn73SyKBMio) I expect that you think this is hilarious, but it contributes nothing to the debate and the racial slurs in particular are not welcome. If you have a serious argument, post it instead of linking to this kind of nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/50 "2011-10-30T23:05:14Z")
People are speaking up against illegal immigration. This guy is typical. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM42cHoeO7I](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM42cHoeO7I) ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/51 "2011-10-31T01:11:03Z")
> [@Cyclone](#): > > Let’s get to where the rubber hits the road. This is capitalism we are talking about. A workforce is needed to be available when there are job openings. If we don’t have welders when we need them, we just approve some visas, green cards, whatever it takes. > > We are not doing gracious work for the unfortunate of the world here. We never have, immigration is a back up workforce. The last thing we are looking for is more welfare recipients, which is why the political focus on dumping illegal aliens back over the border. Like we need more slums! But doesn’t the US already do that? There are work visas available if you can prove to the satisfaction of the US Government that you can’t find someone in the US to do the work you need done. I think the OP’s question was more about reforming immigration rules to give more “points” for education under an application system. Or, society could move to a free-market migration system. You can go anywhere in the world, provided you can buy a ticket. (That is, visas couldn’t be denied, or could be denied for only the gravest of reasons such as you being in jail or something) Once you get there, you’d better be able to find a job. If you can’t, you can try another country. ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/52 "2011-11-01T02:12:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I expect that you think this is hilarious, but it contributes nothing to the debate and the racial slurs in particular are not welcome. If you have a serious argument, post it instead of linking to this kind of nonsense. Oh get your feet on the ground. Whenever there is a war we demonize our enemy. This is just a prelude to war with Mexico. These overpopulating cockroaches have 12,000,000 invaders living inside our nation. And the cost to American taxpayers is $113 BILLION a year for health care, education, and welfare. [http://www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org/illegal-immigration-a-113-billion-a-year-drain-on-u-s-taxpayers/](http://www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org/illegal-immigration-a-113-billion-a-year-drain-on-u-s-taxpayers/) I don’t give a damn what color their skin is, they are freeloaders and we want them out. America has been too generous, now it is time to clean house and call Terminex to spray. No country other country on earth would tolerate this. Mexican Illegals and their **fake citizen** anchor babies must **ALL** be deported. For Christ sake, cut the crap. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/53 "2011-11-01T06:15:12Z")
Dude, you are NOT going to last long. This isn’t a war, they aren’t the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/54 "2011-11-01T06:39:14Z")
> [@Cyclone](#): > > Oh get your feet on the ground. Whenever there is a war we demonize our enemy. This is just a prelude to war with Mexico. 😕 OK, this sounds like Noam Chomsky or somebody giving us a dire warning of what the (American) PTB are trying to stir up next . . . > [@Cyclone](#): > > These overpopulating cockroaches have 12,000,000 invaders living inside our nation . . . But **this** sounds like the kind of shit Noam would use as an example of the ruling class’s lameass agitprop . . . ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/55 "2011-11-01T13:19:25Z")
> [@Cyclone](#): > > Oh get your feet on the ground. Whenever there is a war we demonize our enemy. This is just a prelude to war with Mexico. These overpopulating cockroaches have 12,000,000 invaders living inside our nation. And the cost to American taxpayers is $113 BILLION a year for health care, education, and welfare. [http://www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org/illegal-immigration-a-113-billion-a-year-drain-on-u-s-taxpayers/](http://www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org/illegal-immigration-a-113-billion-a-year-drain-on-u-s-taxpayers/) I don’t give a damn what color their skin is, they are freeloaders and we want them out. America has been too generous, now it is time to clean house and call Terminex to spray. No country other country on earth would tolerate this. Mexican Illegals and their **fake citizen** anchor babies must **ALL** be deported. > > For Christ sake, cut the crap. Posting inflammatory tirades just to rile up other posters and sneering at a Mod’s instruction to refrain from doing just that is not appropriate behavior. This is a Warning that this sort of behavior will get your posting privileges curtailed. Opposing immigration, (illegal or legal), is fine. Being obnoxious and posting in a way to irritate others is out of line. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/56 "2011-11-01T13:23:40Z")
> [@Cyclone](#): > > Mexican Illegals and their **fake citizen** anchor babies must **ALL** be deported. “fake citizen”? ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/57 "2011-11-01T15:46:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “fake citizen”? I take it that **Cyclone** opposes _jus soli_ citizenship. Of course, to change that in the US would require a constitutional amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/58 "2011-11-01T15:49:08Z")
Well, not necessarily. _Wong Kim Ark_ dealt with a child belonging to _legal_ immigrants. SCOTUS could clarify that ruling - though I’ll bet dollars to donuts it never will. I just find it amusing and/or interesting that he refers to Mexican children as “fake citizens”. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/59 "2011-11-01T16:26:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, not necessarily. _Wong Kim Ark_ dealt with a child belonging to _legal_ immigrants. SCOTUS could clarify that ruling - though I’ll bet dollars to donuts it never will. I’m not familiar with this ruling, but my understanding is that “anchor babies” refers to children born in the US to non-citizen immigrants, who are themselves citizens (by the 14th amendment, which establishes the principle of _jus soli_ citizenship). Then, as we can see on the chart in **Richard Parker** ’s [post=14387923]post[/post], these children can then sponsor their parents for permanent residence and citizenship. Modifying the 14th amendment would require another constitutional amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472/60 "2011-11-01T16:36:34Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I’m not familiar with this ruling, but my understanding is that “anchor babies” refers to children born in the US to non-citizen immigrants, who are themselves citizens (by the 14th amendment, which establishes the principle of _jus soli_ citizenship). Then, as we can see on the chart in **Richard Parker** ’s [post=14387923]post[/post], these children can then sponsor their parents for permanent residence and citizenship. Modifying the 14th amendment would require another constitutional amendment. _[US v. Wong Kim Ark](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark)_ was the case that established that the 14th Amendment conferred citizenship on the children of legal residents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-for-the-best-and-brightest/600472.md?page=4)