# Immigration Protesters: Make your message pro-American! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633 "2006-04-28T18:17:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/121 "2006-05-02T02:03:38Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Actually, the vast majority of those who apply for permanent residency based on immediate relative petitions _will_ eventually have them granted, and are here in a status authorized by the Attorney General - the reason the report classifies them in the “unauthorized” category is that they do not yet have permission to remain permanently in the U.S. My point was that you obviously didn’t read the report beyond the title before passing judgement on it, and imprecision like that annoys me. No, I skimmed it. I didn’t read the whole thing until you made it seem like such a critical part of the debate. Then I did go back and read the whole thing and it turns out that, even giving your side of the deabate the benefit of every doubt, it has exactly zero impact on the debate, it merely lowers the number from 11.5 illegals to just over 10. My point is that obfuscation and deflection like that annoys me. > [@Eva Luna](#): > > As I have mentioned previously, I never claimed to have all the answers, and anyone who does is lying or delusional. I certainly wish I could wave my magic wand and fix the socioeconomic disparities in the world, and particularly in the Americas, but obviously I don’t have that quite figured out yet. But the Senate bill is a better compromise than some of the insanity that’s been banging around Congress. I’ll agree with all of that exact the last part. I maintain that any bill that allows illegals to stay here is a gross travesty of justice. There are thousand who have chosen to obey the laws and wait patiently to come here. To now grant these illegals some type of “earned amnesty” unbelievably unfair to them. It also makes a mockery of our laws, not to mention encourage more illegals to come and hide in wait until the next flavor of amnesty. I don’t know what all the answers are either. But I am sure of that. I think we should find a way to get them to leave of their own accord. As I mentioned in another thread, maybe we open an imigration office in Mexico and other countries and let people know: the line starts on October 1 for guest worker permits. Or maybe they can apply at the border as they leave the country. Of course, this assumes that we have control of the borders whenever we do this so people don’t just sneak back in. > [@Eva Luna](#): > > (And I also think that the U.S. bears a certain degree of responsibility for the massive population upheavals caused by the civil wars of recent decades in Central America, so the least we can do is accept some of them and give them a shot at starting over. But that’s a whole different thread, probably in GD.) Eva, you know a ot about this issue and are intimately involved in it, so let me ask you a few questions: Do you think that a country has the right to control its own borders? If yes, doesn’t that mean that if someone ignores those laws and sneaks in that they should be deported? Do you thiink that people who snuck in here should be allowed to stay and earn citizenship while thousands/millions have been obeying our laws and waiting patiently in line? If these people that are here are allowed to stay and “earn” citizenship, do you think that those who have been wiatiing will feel like suckers? Do you not thiink that they would have preferred to sneak in, then get this “earned amnesty”? I’ll stop there for now. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/122 "2006-05-02T02:18:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > No, I skimmed it. I didn’t read the whole thing until you made it seem like such a critical part of the debate. Then I did go back and read the whole thing and it turns out that, even giving your side of the deabate the benefit of every doubt, it has exactly zero impact on the debate, it merely lowers the number from 11.5 illegals to just over 10. My point is that obfuscation and deflection like that annoys me. You really think that over a million people have zero importance? Well, you and I will have to disagree on that one. Particularly the people who were part of the class action settlement - if their asylum applications had been adjudicated fairly in the first place according to the laws you are so keen on enforcing evenhandedly, many of them would be permanent residents or citizens by now, and eligible to petition legally for their own relatives. > [@](#): > > I think we should find a way to get them to leave of their own accord. As I mentioned in another thread, maybe we open an imigration office in Mexico and other countries and let people know: the line starts on October 1 for guest worker permits. My last reading of the Senate compromise bill would do exactly that for people who have been here from 2 - 5 years. > [@](#): > > Do you thiink that people who snuck in here should be allowed to stay and earn citizenship while thousands/millions have been obeying our laws and waiting patiently in line? Do you still not understand that **there is no line for people who don’t already have close relatives or a prearranged offer of skilled employment in the U.S.?** No amount of waiting would get them here legally under current laws. And the line is literally more than adecade long for most categories of family-based immigration. [Here is a link showing the waiting times](http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_2868.html) for various immigrant categories. Just one example: the State Dept. is currently processing immigrant visas for adult sons and daughters of U.S. citizens that were filed on January 1, 1991. Would you want to wait 15+ years _after_ you naturalized for your children to be able to join you? > [@](#): > > If these people that are here are allowed to stay and “earn” citizenship, do you think that those who have been wiatiing will feel like suckers? Do you not thiink that they would have preferred to sneak in, then get this “earned amnesty”? The current compromise bill would not allow people to “jump the line.” And I don’t believe for a second that you are done. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/123 "2006-05-02T02:33:53Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Sorry, most Mexicans (and Central and South America), are already Catholics. So, no matter where they live, the Church already has them. It’s suppsed to be a spiritual kingdom, not an earthly one. Also, what’s that about a cheap and steady supply? Is that supposed to be some sort of whoosh? Was the Pope supposed to send me a check? WHERE’S MY MONEY?!?!?!?! (put angry face thingy here) Please, the Catholic church is still controlled by European and American priests. The fact that they have them in Mexico is the reason they want them here. The already have the influence they need in Mexico and they’d like to regain it in America. What better way then once again increasing their congregation. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/124 "2006-05-02T02:52:35Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Please, the Catholic church is still controlled by European and American priests. The fact that they have them in Mexico is the reason they want them here. The already have the influence they need in Mexico and they’d like to regain it in America. What better way then once again increasing their congregation. I think you overestimate the control they have. We really aren’t too much different from the Protestants in our day to day life. We go to church (some of us, sometimes), and pretty much do whatever. Go to church, say the amens, put some coins in the collection plate, and go home. Repeat next week. We are not the Dreaded Papists of medieval horror stories. We are not some monolithic Borg or hive mind. We are not very good at “taking orders” from Rome or anyone else. Control? It’s easier to herd cats. Just remember one thing. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/125 "2006-05-02T03:06:16Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > The already have the influence they need in Mexico and they’d like to regain it in America. Out of idle curiousity, what influence has the Catholic Church ever had in America? It was not only blacks that the Klu Klux Klan opposed. Also out of idle curiousity, so what? Should we fear an influx of Catholics for some reason? ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/126 "2006-05-02T03:32:12Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Out of idle curiousity, what influence has the Catholic Church ever had in America? It was not only blacks that the Klu Klux Klan opposed. > > Also out of idle curiousity, so what? Should we fear an influx of Catholics for some reason? Not at all, I was simply pointing out that the Catholic Church has an agenda in all of this and they aren’t just doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. Mexican immigrants fill their churches that more secular Americans aren’t doing anymore. Just another business looking to make some money of the immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/127 "2006-05-02T03:34:08Z")
Oh and an FYI, born and raised in Ireland. Practicing Catholic for 30 odd years. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/128 "2006-05-02T03:45:43Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Not at all, I was simply pointing out that the Catholic Church has an agenda in all of this and they aren’t just doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. Mexican immigrants fill their churches that more secular Americans aren’t doing anymore. Just another business looking to make some money of the immigrant. I suspect we won’t be able to come to an agreement on this. Even as an atheist/agnostic (depending on what time of day you ask me), I tend to believe that most religions support (or oppose) various causes because of a belief that the cause is morally right (or wrong), rather than from a “What’s in it for me?” viewpoint. _shrug_ Call me naive… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/129 "2006-05-02T04:07:53Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > You really think that over a million people have zero importance? Well, you and I will have to disagree on that one. Particularly the people who were part of the class action settlement - if their asylum applications had been adjudicated fairly in the first place according to the laws you are so keen on enforcing evenhandedly, many of them would be permanent residents or citizens by now, and eligible to petition legally for their own relatives. The 1,000,000 were immaterial _to the debate_, as even excluding them, we still have over 10 million. > [@Eva Luna](#): > > Do you still not understand that **there is no line for people who don’t already have close relatives or a prearranged offer of skilled employment in the U.S.?** No amount of waiting would get them here legally under current laws. And the line is literally more than adecade long for most categories of family-based immigration. [Here is a link showing the waiting times](http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_2868.html) for various immigrant categories. Just one example: the State Dept. is currently processing immigrant visas for adult sons and daughters of U.S. citizens that were filed on January 1, 1991. Would you want to wait 15+ years _after_ you naturalized for your children to be able to join you? No one is forciing them to stay here. They can go back to their children whenever they desire. But let me ask you, is this true for all countries? And as I’ve said before, our imigration policy needs a complete overhaul, resulting, among other things, making it easier and quicker for people to come here legally. But doing so is just pissing in the wind until the borders are secure, the illegals that are here are out, we enforce the laws against the employers. > [@Eva Luna](#): > > The current compromise bill would not allow people to “jump the line.” Wouldn’t the bill put them at the end of the line _while they stay here_? That’s so unfair to those waiting in their own countries legally, don’t you think? > [@Eva Luna](#): > > And I don’t believe for a second that you are done. For now. 😃 Thank you for your answers, though. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/130 "2006-05-02T04:49:44Z")
I don’t buy the Catholic conspiracy. Pentacostal movements are WAY big among recent immigrants (and have no small presene in Latin America). A person has a much better chance of remaining Catholic in Mexico than as an immigrant to America. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/131 "2006-05-02T04:50:35Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > - Call me naive… Frank, you’re naive 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/132 "2006-05-02T04:51:38Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > I don’t buy the Catholic conspiracy. Pentacostal movements are WAY big among recent immigrants (and have no small presene in Latin America). A person has a much better chance of remaining Catholic in Mexico than as an immigrant to America. I’m not saying it’s a conspiracy as they are quite overt about it. There is, however, an ulterior motive behind their actions. They want more parishioners and immigrants are a great source for that. ---
**Author:** ![Gladstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90db22/32.png) [@Gladstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gladstone)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/133 "2006-05-02T05:00:55Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > I’m not saying it’s a conspiracy as they are quite overt about it. There is, however, an ulterior motive behind their actions. They want more parishioners and immigrants are a great source for that. In order to cater to them, however, they will have to get a Spanish-speaking priest, schedule a separate Spanish mass, and provide Spanish language services for whatever charity or community outreach functions they serve. It’s not the complete windfall that you describe. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/134 "2006-05-02T09:42:02Z")
Let’s hear some kudos fro the fact that they had hundreds of thousands of people across many sites, and there was not one violent or unseemly incident? I doubt many protests of any nature could boast that. What we saw was not mob reaction or crazed ranting, but peaceful everyday people - our friends and families and co-workers- making their voices heard. Good job, guys. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/135 "2006-05-02T16:08:05Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Let’s hear some kudos fro the fact that they had hundreds of thousands of people across many sites, and there was not one violent or unseemly incident? I doubt many protests of any nature could boast that. What we saw was not mob reaction or crazed ranting, but peaceful everyday people - our friends and families and co-workers- making their voices heard. Good job, guys. Sorry, I can’t applaud the fact that they did not commit other illegal acts while they are still committing an illegal act. I appreciate where you are coming from but it doesn’t change the nature of the illegal conduct. ---
**Author:** ![rowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@rowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowe)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/136 "2006-05-02T18:16:17Z")
There was an incident here in Los Angeles but I’m glad to see that it was mostly peaceful overall. [Link to KTLA story](http://ktla.trb.com/news/jenn-ktlaimmigration,0,7771196.story?coll=ktla-news-1) > [@](#): > > As at the earlier demonstration, the Wilshire march was peaceful, with something of a fiesta atmosphere, although afterward about 100 rowdy demonstrators faced off with police, some throwing bottles and breaking windows. Police arrested two males on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon after an officer was hit in the chest. > [@even sven](#): > > Let’s hear some kudos fro the fact that they had hundreds of thousands of people across many sites, and there was not one violent or unseemly incident? I doubt many protests of any nature could boast that. What we saw was not mob reaction or crazed ranting, but peaceful everyday people - our friends and families and co-workers- making their voices heard. Good job, guys. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/137 "2006-05-03T14:04:42Z")
I’m not that surprised that the marches were peaceful. That’s part of the agenda. Deflect from the overt illegality of their actions with puff pieces in the media, peaceful marches and organized chaos. It’s a great strategy. Indeed, when you think about it, the protesters have a direct benefit to keep the demonstrations peaceful. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/138 "2006-05-03T16:00:50Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Sorry, I can’t applaud the fact that they did not commit other illegal acts while they are still committing an illegal act. I appreciate where you are coming from but it doesn’t change the nature of the illegal conduct. The majority of protestors were legal immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/139 "2006-05-03T18:48:48Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > The majority of protestors were legal immigrants. Do you have a citation for that? There were 300,000 here in Chicago so how could anyone tell who was legal and who wasn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/140 "2006-05-03T19:25:15Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Do you have a citation for that? There were 300,000 here in Chicago so how could anyone tell who was legal and who wasn’t? Well, if you can’t tell who was legal and who was illegal, maybe you shouldn’t be making statements like, > [@](#): > > Sorry, I can’t applaud the fact that they did not commit other illegal acts while they are still committing an illegal act. I appreciate where you are coming from but it doesn’t change the nature of the illegal conduct. Unless _you’ve_ got some sort of cite that most of these protestors were illegal immigrants? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633.md?page=8)