# Immigration Protesters: Make your message pro-American! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633 "2006-04-28T18:17:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/141 "2006-05-03T19:51:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Unless _you’ve_ got some sort of cite that most of these protestors were illegal immigrants? Why do you think it falls to **Lochdale** to prove what percent werre illegals. The original claim was by **even sven** , who claimed that “The majority of protestors were legal immigrants.” It seems that the burden of proof falls to him, which **Lochdale** requested, even questioning how anyone would know the answer? Can you tell just by looking? No. And I’m sure no one would do the impolite, impolitic, politically incorrect thing of asking people to prove their legality. (God forbid.) It seems that the beef you have with **Lochdale** should be addressed to **even sven**. No? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/142 "2006-05-03T22:11:19Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Oh and an FYI, born and raised in Ireland. Practicing Catholic for 30 odd years. FYI, born and raised Catholic, of Italian heritage in New York (before coming to Lala Land) for umm 52 years so far. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/143 "2006-05-03T23:09:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > It seems that the beef you have with **Lochdale** should be addressed to **even sven**. No? No. 1 hour and 56 minutes before **even sven** said: > [@even sven](#): > > The majority of protestors were legal immigrants. **Lochdale** said: > [@Lochdale](#): > > I’m not that surprised that the marches were peaceful. That’s part of the agenda. **Deflect from the overt illegality of their actions** with puff pieces in the media, peaceful marches and organized chaos. It’s a great strategy. Indeed, when you think about it, the protesters have a direct benefit to keep the demonstrations peaceful. Feel free to spin that however you’d like, but unless engaging in the protests themselves were illegal, it’s hard to read that any other way than implying that the protestors as a group were illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/144 "2006-05-04T00:55:24Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And I’m sure no one would do the impolite, impolitic, politically incorrect thing of asking people to prove their legality. (God forbid.) Not only politically incorrect, but held on numerous occasions to be a violation of the Constitutional prohibition on unreasonable search and seizure. [Probable cause](http://www.lawhelp.org/WA/showdocument.cfm/County/%20/City/%20/demoMode/%3D%201/Language/1/State/WA/TextOnly/N/ZipCode/%20/LoggedIn/0/rpc/1811400/doctype/dynamicdoc/ichannelprofileid/19745/idynamicdocid/2360/iorganizationid/1553/itopicID/866/iProblemCodeID/1811400/iChannelID/7/isubtopicid/1/iproblemcodeid/1811400) is normally the requirement for law enforcement to detain someone to determine immigration status, and foreign appearance in itself doesn’t cut the mustard for probable cause purposes. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/145 "2006-05-04T00:58:56Z")
How about this for spin? The fact that the marches were peaceful was part of their evil plan to lull us all into a false sense of well being. Obvious deception. They really want to eat our brains and then take back California, Texas, Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico immediately afterwards. I see where this is going. If there were riots and cities burning, it would have been “see? I told you so”. Since it was so peaceful, considering how many people were involved, that MUST mean it’s part of their evil plan, their secret agenda. In short, no matter what happened, they’re all evil bastards anyway. Does anyone else smell bull shit? ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/146 "2006-05-04T19:28:50Z")
It’s not bullshit but common sense. The organizer know that their agenda would be severly damaged if the marches turned violence. The happy, smiling hard working immigrant is a much easier sell then the violent, rioting illegal. Perhaps I should have rephrased my point, I am not going to applaud someone for following then law all while they are either actively breaking the law or supporting people who are. I am glad that they were peaceful but it doesn’t make their cause any more worthwhile. Lastly, I implied that the marchers were illegal whereas Even Sven came right out and said that they were not illegals. I asked for a cite. Not an unreasonable position at all. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/147 "2006-05-04T20:28:27Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > 1 hour and 56 minutes before **even sven** said: **Lochdale** said:Feel free to spin that however you’d like, but unless engaging in the protests themselves were illegal, it’s hard to read that any other way than implying that the protestors as a group were illegal. Unless one’s postion is the there was no—zero—marching done by illegals, then **Lochdale’s** starement is not open to refutation. I don’t think anyone is of that mind. But **even sven** then came in with a specific claim regarding percentages. **Lochdale** called him on it. Makes perfect sense. Now IF **even sven** or you wanted to challenge **Lochdale** as to what might have been implied in his statement, that would have been reasonable. If he then, in response, would have claimed all, most, or XX% were marching illegally, that would have been perfectly logical and fair. But that is not what was done. The only one who made a definitive, quantifiable statement was **even sven**. And **Lochdale** was perfectly within his rights to request back-up. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/148 "2006-05-04T20:34:05Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Not only politically incorrect, but held on numerous occasions to be a violation of the Constitutional prohibition on unreasonable search and seizure. [Probable cause](http://www.lawhelp.org/WA/showdocument.cfm/County/%20/City/%20/demoMode/%3D%201/Language/1/State/WA/TextOnly/N/ZipCode/%20/LoggedIn/0/rpc/1811400/doctype/dynamicdoc/ichannelprofileid/19745/idynamicdocid/2360/iorganizationid/1553/itopicID/866/iProblemCodeID/1811400/iChannelID/7/isubtopicid/1/iproblemcodeid/1811400) is normally the requirement for law enforcement to detain someone to determine immigration status, and foreign appearance in itself doesn’t cut the mustard for probable cause purposes. How about foreign appearance, inability to speak English, wearing a shirt with a Mexican Flag, carrying a sign that says “We didn’t cross the border, the border crossed us”, and marching in a parade demanding the at the government give illegals amnesty? Is that enough? ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/149 "2006-05-04T21:07:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > How about foreign appearance, inability to speak English, wearing a shirt with a Mexican Flag, carrying a sign that says “We didn’t cross the border, the border crossed us”, and marching in a parade demanding the at the government give illegals amnesty? Is that enough? Please describe “foreign appearance.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/150 "2006-05-04T21:10:03Z")
> [@bluethree](#): > > Please describe “foreign appearance.” Ask “Eva Luna”. I took a phrase she used and addedon to it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/151 "2006-05-04T21:11:51Z")
Also, how do the authorities determine that the person has an inability to speak English _before_ they detain him? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/152 "2006-05-04T21:14:34Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Ask “Eva Luna”. I took a phrase she used and addedon to it. I assumed that she was using the phrase as a sarcastic way of saying “non-white.” Is that how you intended it to be understood when you “added on” to it? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/153 "2006-05-04T21:24:01Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > How about foreign appearance, inability to speak English, wearing a shirt with a Mexican Flag, carrying a sign that says “We didn’t cross the border, the border crossed us”, and marching in a parade demanding the at the government give illegals amnesty? Is that enough? No, because I was once part of a crowd like that. While it is fair to ask for a cite on how many protesters were illegal, it is a fact that a great number of the protesters were in there in solidarity with the illegals, my educated guess is that the majority of then were legal for the reason that very few of the illegals would risk their jobs, and: [http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-timesimmigration,0,2858359.story?coll=ktla-news-1](http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-timesimmigration,0,2858359.story?coll=ktla-news-1) > [@](#): > > The mood was jubilant, and the symbol of choice was an American flag. Marchers also carried signs, proclaiming “Hoy Marchamos, Manana Votamos.”(Today We March; Tomorrow We Vote.) It is because indeed a good number of the protesters passed through something similar in the past. We empathize with them… And as citizens we will not vote for people supporting draconian measures. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/154 "2006-05-04T21:28:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I assumed that she was using the phrase as a sarcastic way of saying “non-white.” Is that how you intended it to be understood when you “added on” to it? As you know, they’re are many Americans that are non-white. Are you saying that African-Americans and Asian-Americans and Brazilian-Americans and Fillipino-Americans don’t look American to you? As far as the meaning of “foreign looking”, I simply took a phrase she used and parroted it back to her. I assumed she understood what it meant when she used it. So, I suggest you ask her what she meant by a phrase that she used. I could be wron and she might have no idea what she meant by the phrase. Again, since you’re so interested you shold ask her. As far as the “inability” to speak English, you could listen. It certainly wouldn’t be fool-proof, but you might want to combine it with the sign-carrying I mentioned. Unless you object to readinig the sign without an engraved invitation. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/155 "2006-05-04T21:32:52Z")
**GIGObuster** How about this as a chant: Today we tell you how much we love America. Tomorrow we show you by leaving and obeying your laws. Feel free to suggest it to your friends. No charge. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/156 "2006-05-04T21:34:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > As far as the “inability” to speak English, you could listen. It certainly wouldn’t be fool-proof, but you might want to combine it with the sign-carrying I mentioned. Unless you object to readinig the sign without an engraved invitation. Since arrests did not happen just for that, this is just once again another of your pipe dreams. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/157 "2006-05-04T21:39:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > **GIGObuster** How about this as a chant: Today we tell you how much we love America. Tomorrow we show you by leaving and obeying your laws. > > Feel free to suggest it to your friends. No charge. No can do Pied Piper of **magellin**. (And I am talking in the context of future bills changing their status, something that is more probable than your ideas that even many conservatives consider stupid) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/158 "2006-05-04T21:41:21Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > **GIGObuster** How about this as a chant: Today we tell you how much we love America. Tomorrow we show you by leaving and obeying your laws. Why are you assuming that all the marchers were illegal aliens? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/159 "2006-05-04T21:46:42Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Why are you assuming that all the marchers were illegal aliens? Did no such thing. I was assuming that the protesters were smart enough to determine who should be carrying such a sign or singing such a chant. Obviously, it would only make sense for the illegals to dos so. Are you of the opinion that thay are not intelligent enough to make such a determination? If so, I must say that I think that’s ridiculous, never mind offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633/160 "2006-05-04T21:59:24Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Did no such thing. I was assuming that the protesters were smart enough to determine who should be carrying such a sign or singing such a chant. Obviously, it would only make sense for the illegals to dos so. Are you of the opinion that thay are not intelligent enough to make such a determination? If so, I must say that I think that’s ridiculous, never mind offensive. And the vast majority of legal aliens and citizens should keep their mouths shut, and carry no signs? I’m sincerely not following whatever point you’re trying to make here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immigration-protesters-make-your-message-pro-american/354633.md?page=9)