# Immortal Spirit? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753 "2010-01-13T03:34:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/21 "2010-01-13T13:38:13Z")
Potentially yes, but not definitely. I believe that it is quite possible that a damned soul may be extinquished. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/22 "2010-01-13T13:44:54Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/23 "2010-01-13T13:49:22Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/24 "2010-01-13T14:50:36Z")
No. I’ve seen no evidence to support the claim. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/25 "2010-01-13T14:56:54Z")
Chalk me down for another “I hope not”. It’s sort of like the old children’s game of “really bad dilemmas”. Would you rather have a toe brutally sliced off today, or get slapped really hard in the face every day for the rest of your life? In the short and medium term the loss of the toe would be worse but soon you’d regret the daily slap. Same thing with eternal existence. The snuffing out at the end of life is horrifying to thing about, but not compared to contemplating having to live forever. Forever is a really long time. Consider [Graham’s Number](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham%27s_number). It’s bigger than most people’s concept of infinity. Forever is even longer than that. I could become completely insanely bored and/or frustrated with eternal existence after only a couple thousand of years, let alone _forever_. ETA: and that’s assuming a relatively peaceful afterlife. Under most of the world’s religions, that would not be what would be in store for me. And if our spirits get changed so we don’t remember or don’t care, then it’s no longer really us, is it? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/26 "2010-01-13T15:00:48Z")
Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/27 "2010-01-13T15:08:39Z")
Spirit? Yes. Immortal? No. Soul is a function of Brain. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/28 "2010-01-13T16:38:31Z")
Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/29 "2010-01-13T17:31:29Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/30 "2010-01-13T18:15:49Z")
Yes, certainly. The fact we are self aware is the key. Yes some animals react well to certain things and can be trained and they have memory, but no chimp knows he IS a chimp, and that he has a heart and liver, even if he looked at a dead chimp laid out in front of him. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/31 "2010-01-13T18:26:37Z")
I’m pretty sure that’s wrong, and quite sure that any such differences stem from the nature of the brain in question. No need to invoke ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/32 "2010-01-13T18:28:37Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > The fact we are self aware is the key… You might argue that that supports half of the contention (spirit). However, I see no support for “immortal” there. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/33 "2010-01-13T19:11:58Z")
I expect that the people who say “yes” are making all sorts of assumptions about what life after death would be like. We don’t have any evidence for any of the afterlives either. And with what would a spirit bereft of body perceive anything? Even if there is such a thing as an “immortal spirit”, how do you know that spirit does anything but drift forever; blind, deaf, numb because it has no sense organs to sense with? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/34 "2010-01-13T19:17:37Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Yes, certainly. The fact we are self aware is the key. Yes some animals react well to certain things and can be trained and they have memory, but no chimp knows he IS a chimp, and that he has a heart and liver, even if he looked at a dead chimp laid out in front of him. So, because we’re more intelligent than other animals, we must have magical spirits. Got it. What happens when we build self-aware computers? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/35 "2010-01-13T19:37:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What happens when we build self-aware computers? “Is there a God?” he asked. “THERE IS NOW” the machine answered. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/36 "2010-01-13T19:55:09Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/37 "2010-01-13T19:56:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So, because we’re more intelligent than other animals, we must have magical spirits. Got it. “Self-aware” is not synonymous with “more intelligent,” so let’s not act as though the terms are exactly equivalent. I think we know better than that. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/38 "2010-01-13T20:10:05Z")
> [@Hilary\_Algar](#): > > This is clearly non-falsifiable, but do you believe that humans have immortal spirits? That depends entirely on how you (or I) define “spirit”. On January 18th we will observe Martin Luther King day. Speakers will stand at various podia and give speeches about whether or not this or that current endeavor is a proper example of his legacy. The embodiment of his _spirit_, you could say. Does any such “spirit” exist? In this sense, as an abstraction representing the fundamental essence of his purpose and what he stood for and so on, I think perhaps many folks who have weighed in above with a “No” would say “Yes”. Many of them would go on to say “Yeah but that’s NOT the kind of ‘spirit’ that people are talking about when they ask whether humans have an immortal spirit, and you know it; you’re just playing semantic games”. I’m not, though. Seriously, I suspect that once upon a time, someone spoke in the abstract, with great emphasis and fervor, talking about how we are more than just our corporeal bodies, that we can _stand for_ something, that _who we are_ is more than just our body, that if we do stand for something and do meaningful things in our life, our essence in this sense can go on after we die. Dull imagination-impaired and literal-minded people listened and went 😕 and speaker used more descriptions chock-full of similes and metaphors and some of them got it and some, seeing enough other people nodding to not want to look stooopid, went along with it. "Yeah, we are more than our bodies. There’s this invisible thing hiding inside our bodies kind of like those worms that my brother got infested with, remember that? But these things are good not like those worms. And when you die they come out and keep on living, and that’s a ‘SPIRIT’. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/39 "2010-01-13T20:13:01Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > “Self-aware” is not synonymous with “more intelligent,” so let’s not act as though the terms are exactly equivalent. I think we know better than that. Self-awareness arises at a certain level of intelligence, though. You can’t have one without the other. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753/40 "2010-01-13T20:26:18Z")
really, so all those supercomputers out there are self aware, huh? I don’t think so. Many computers out-think us, even 40 years ago as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortal-spirit/524753.md?page=3)