# Immortality - Who needs it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 2, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251 "2015-12-02T21:07:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Totenfeier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Totenfeier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Totenfeier)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/41 "2015-12-03T14:42:33Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > It’s both. It’s a blurse! > > I think the main issue is the body/mind confusion. As long as you think you are your body, and only your body, you will probably have a fear of death in the system. When exclusive association with the body disappears, or total identification with awareness/consciousness happens, the different phobias around death seem to alleviate and disappear. Death is then seen either simply as silence/rest or as a gateway to the bardo/afterlife. Either is fine by me. > > If people want to live longer because they really enjoy life, that seems admirable and a healthy reason to try to extend your lifespan. But if it’s just to avoid death, it seems more like a psychological issue. Resolving death is pretty important if you want to live a life without fear and phobias. I agree completely, Stoneburg. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Totenfeier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Totenfeier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Totenfeier)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/42 "2015-12-03T14:53:55Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > If I stare at a blank wall for an hour and think of nothing, I consider that to be less conscious than being fully engaged with a vibrant environment and thinking active thoughts. I prefer the later because the former is very boring. > > Extrapolating beyond this premise, I believe being non-conscious (i.e. dead) would be even more boring than being semi-conscious and therefore even less desirable. I imagine I’d be bored to death. > > I don’t desire immortality because that in and of itself, sounds very boring. I just want to live to be 500. I’d want to age properly, only in slow motion, such that I die at age 500 in my former 30 year old body. I want to die during sex with a hot 300 year old woman (with an 18 year old body). That would indeed be a very _happy ending_. Sorry if two posts in a row is bad form; I don’t know how to double-quote yet. Pardon my directness, but it seems to me that your extrapolation is a non-sequitur. If you are aware of your boredom during the less-conscious state you describe, it is only because - it is precisely because - you exist and are aware. Nonexistence means complete lack of self, or self-reflection, by definition. No self; no boredom. By the way, I would deeply enjoy staring at a blank wall for an hour and thinking of nothing - I’ve certainly tried enough. I would be a Buddha! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/43 "2015-12-03T15:07:23Z")
I had a related thread a couple of years ago: [Elros or Elrond?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=537846&highlight=elrond) Me, I choose Elros. I don’t want to live forever. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/44 "2015-12-03T15:23:42Z")
> [@Totenfeier](#): > > \ > Pardon my directness, but it seems to me that your extrapolation is a non-sequitur. If you are aware of your boredom during the less-conscious state you describe, it is only because - it is precisely because - you exist and are aware. Nonexistence means complete lack of self, or self-reflection, by definition. No self; no boredom. > \ Hmm…non-consciousness = non-boredom, you say? That’s a consequence I hadn’t considered. Perhaps you’re right; I’ll have to mull it over while staring at my wall. In any case, in the same way I don’t want to be alive forever, I don’t want to be dead forever, either—Imnecrolity is nearly as bad as immortality. I want to pop back into existence sometime down the road. At the very least, I expect to pop back into existence sometime during the Big Crunch (yes, it’s going to happen…I worked it out on my calculator), at the mirror time-period of our present age. Of course it will be a bit awkward walking and talking and aging backwards during that life, but things will straighten back again ~14-billion years after the next Big Bang. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/45 "2015-12-03T15:36:56Z")
I don’t crave immortality. Eventually dying seems an entirely reasonable course of affairs, one that I can imagine myself being ready for after another half-life or so. But if I could have the option of renewing my lease when I get close to that point? “Hmm, my hundreds are turning out much better than I’d anticipated, and I’d like to have my 110s and 120s and beyond, contrary to original expectations. Please postpone my demise for another 50+ years and I’ll plan for ceasing to be alive when I’m 165, thanks for extending my stay”. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![Totenfeier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Totenfeier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Totenfeier)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/46 "2015-12-03T15:58:11Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > Hmm…non-consciousness = non-boredom, you say? That’s a consequence I hadn’t considered. Perhaps you’re right; I’ll have to mull it over while staring at my wall. > > In any case, in the same way I don’t want to be alive forever, I don’t want to be dead forever, either—Imnecrolity is nearly as bad as immortality. I want to pop back into existence sometime down the road. > > At the very least, I expect to pop back into existence sometime during the Big Crunch (yes, it’s going to happen…I worked it out on my calculator), at the mirror time-period of our present age. Of course it will be a bit awkward walking and talking and aging backwards during that life, but things will straighten back again ~14-billion years after the next Big Bang. Um…if you were joking in your first post, you got me. If not…then go sit in the corner, stare at that wall, and think about what you’ve done, young man! Now…intermittent temporary death is an idea I might could get behind…better make sure you set up that interest-bearing savings account properly, first! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/47 "2015-12-03T17:30:30Z")
> [@Totenfeier](#): > > Hi, I’m back. I’m really enjoying the discussion so far. And yes, I presume that, if I did not currently exist, I wouldn’t be. C’est la vie. > > For a very long time, it wasn’t my time. I am fine with that. Now it is my time. I’m fine with that. Later, for a very long time (I hope, for the sake of humanity), it won’t be my time anymore. I’m fine with that. Where is the contradiction? Just for clarity: 1. It wasn’t your time 2. It is your time 3. Your time is over. How do you feel about the transition from 2 to 3 happening tomorrow morning? I’m guessing you’d rather it was later? My point is that I think for most people, most of the time, that is always the case; we may be OK with the idea of dying, as long as it’s not right now - which really means as long as it never actually happens. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/48 "2015-12-03T17:32:21Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > At the very least, I expect to pop back into existence sometime during the Big Crunch (yes, it’s going to happen…I worked it out on my calculator), at the mirror time-period of our present age. Of course it will be a bit awkward walking and talking and aging backwards during that life, but things will straighten back again ~14-billion years after the next Big Bang. Prot, is that you? ---
**Author:** ![botsgotme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@botsgotme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/botsgotme)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/49 "2015-12-03T17:34:52Z")
I want to be immortal because: -I want to see Art Deco come back -I want to see hos the end of the petroleum age pans out -I want to see mars colonized -I want to see cancer and all diseases eliminated I figure all of this will take about 300-500 years. Sign me up. ---
**Author:** ![Totenfeier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Totenfeier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Totenfeier)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/50 "2015-12-03T17:49:35Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Just for clarity: > > 1. It wasn’t your time > 2. It is your time > 3. Your time is over. > > How do you feel about the transition from 2 to 3 happening tomorrow morning? I’m guessing you’d rather it was later? > > My point is that I think for most people, most of the time, that is always the case; we may be OK with the idea of dying, as long as it’s not right now - which really means as long as it never actually happens. That’s sharp thinking, Mangetout. “Later” is indeed the weakness in my argument. I’m reminded of the question “How old is old?”, and the answer is supposedly 15 years or so older than you currently are. Yep - I’ll cop to wanting the maximum allowable. But I still don’t see what rational basis I have for that preference. Does it have something to do with the “undiscovered country” idea? ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/51 "2015-12-03T17:54:24Z")
Interesting username/thread title combo, btw. (Totenfeier=wake) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/52 "2015-12-03T18:26:59Z")
> [@Uniqueorn](#): > > Interesting username/thread title combo, btw. (Totenfeier=wake) I thought that went without saying. ---
**Author:** ![Totenfeier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Totenfeier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Totenfeier)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/53 "2015-12-03T18:41:39Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I thought that went without saying. That’s why I didn’t say it. DrFidelius, just caught your location - scribbled any graffiti in the _Necronomicon_ recently? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/54 "2015-12-03T19:06:50Z")
> [@Totenfeier](#): > > That’s sharp thinking, Mangetout. “Later” is indeed the weakness in my argument. I’m reminded of the question “How old is old?”, and the answer is supposedly 15 years or so older than you currently are. Yep - I’ll cop to wanting the maximum allowable. But I still don’t see what rational basis I have for that preference. Since when does a preference need a rational basis? Some folks at the ice-cream parlor prefer chocolate; some strawberry; some declare for rum raisin, others for butter pecan. De gustibus non est disputandum. ---
**Author:** ![Totenfeier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Totenfeier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Totenfeier)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/55 "2015-12-03T20:28:38Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Since when does a preference need a rational basis? > > Some folks at the ice-cream parlor prefer chocolate; some strawberry; some declare for rum raisin, others for butter pecan. De gustibus non est disputandum. Butter pecan = issues of life and death? Disputem! As extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, don’t meaningful decisions require more thought - and hence, more information - than meaningless ones? (Well, relatively meaningless. Make mine mint chocolate chip.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/56 "2015-12-03T20:34:56Z")
> [@Totenfeier](#): > > Butter pecan = issues of life and death? Disputem! > > As extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, don’t meaningful decisions require more thought - and hence, more information - than meaningless ones? > > (Well, relatively meaningless. Make mine mint chocolate chip.) I’d say – no? Wanting to stay alive strikes me as the default; we don’t typically ask people why they decide to keep living, though we typically start asking questions when they announce that they want to die. You said you don’t care to kill yourself, and listed reasons why you enjoy life, and I – didn’t pick at that, because why would I? Your choice didn’t seem extraordinary; it struck me as, y’know, routine; expected, even. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/57 "2015-12-03T20:48:57Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Prot, is that you? You’re implying I’m kinda “Spacey”??? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/58 "2015-12-04T00:38:43Z")
Lots and lots of people crave it over here, particularly newly arrived farangs (Westerners). I suppose it doesn’t hurt to spice up one’s life a bit, but I admit immorality isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. ---
**Author:** ![dizzee\_dee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@dizzee\_dee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dizzee_dee)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/59 "2015-12-04T01:52:30Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Lots and lots of people crave it over here, particularly newly arrived farangs (Westerners). I suppose it doesn’t hurt to spice up one’s life a bit, but I admit immorality isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. Immorality and immortality are different things. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251/60 "2015-12-04T01:54:19Z")
Oh, well never mind then. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immortality-who-needs-it/739251.md?page=4)