# Immunity after getting COVID should fulfill vaccine requirements **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [January 23, 2022, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258 "2022-01-23T03:25:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/181 "2022-01-25T18:33:54Z")
Since a huge number of the people who have died from Covid are obese, how about we give a highly educated government bureaucrat the power to put everyone who doesn’t meet government guidelines for a healthy weight on a mandated diet? Now that would be a real boon to public health, maybe even a greater benefit than Covid vaccines. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/182 "2022-01-25T19:06:25Z")
Not really, no. Even were we to take this desperate _reductio ad absurdam_ argument seriously, the logistics would be vastly more complex, the timescales much longer, and the cost/benefit calculation very very different to the requirement of people to go to their local doctor or pharmacy maybe three times in one year for a few minutes to get a shot. Vaccines save lives. It would be nice if everyone acted like a responsible adult and if those who were able to be vaccinated would do so in order to minimize the risks not only to themselves but others, but sadly way too many people just don’t wanna. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/183 "2022-01-25T19:14:50Z")
Yeah, I’ve been arguing that getting a vaccine isn’t free. But it’s so vastly cheaper/easier than “lose weight and keep it off” that it’s ridiculous to compare them. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/184 "2022-01-25T19:56:59Z")
More ridiculous than having people followed around in the grocery store to insure they don’t recklessly buy a pair of socks while they are shopping for Pop Tarts? Just imagine the potential for growing the bureaucracy; we could put all the TSA rejects to work. How far can we go? Is there such a thing as ‘too far’ these days? > **[COVID-19 in Quebec: What you need to know Monday | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/covid-19-quebec-jan-24-1.6325091)** > > The education minister says the school reopening is going well. Some large retail stores in Quebec now require a vaccination passport for entry. Here's what you need to know. For pharmacies located in big-box stores, such as Walmart or Costco, an unvaccinated person must be “accompanied at all times during his or her travels by an employee of the business, the pharmacy or any other person mandated by them for this purpose,” the decree reads. This person may not purchase products other than those related to the pharmaceutical service they are receiving. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/185 "2022-01-25T20:05:40Z")
Not living in Quebec, I’m not familiar with their rules and I’m not very invested in them, either. But yes, if your summary is accurate, attempting to make people lose weight is significantly more ridiculous than limiting them to the pharmacy section of a big-box store. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/186 "2022-01-25T21:30:06Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > What price are you willing to pay? I’m willing to make vaccination mandatory for all public accommodations. If you choose to stay unvaccinated, stay home. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/187 "2022-01-25T22:45:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Vaccinated people are still much less likely to be hospitalized, even with the Omicron variant. And overfilled ICUs are also a public health issue. And having developed antibodies is part of that process regardless of which vaccine you got or whether you got them from getting covid. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/188 "2022-01-25T23:50:01Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I’m willing to make vaccination mandatory for all public accommodations. If you choose to stay unvaccinated, stay home. With Omicron vaccination now fails the standard of not causing harm to others. Shouldn’t the vaccinated stay home as well? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/189 "2022-01-25T23:53:45Z")
I’m mostly doing that. Yeah, it seems like a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/190 "2022-01-26T00:22:54Z")
I’m staying home much more, but I’m not shut down. I’m not going to crowded restaurants, I’m wearing masks in stores again, and I got the booster. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/191 "2022-01-26T00:48:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And having developed antibodies is part of that process regardless of which vaccine you got or whether you got them from getting covid. OK, back up. I think what you’re missing is that lots of the people (oh, who are we shitting…) most of the people hospitalized with covid got there by being unvaccinated. Becoming hospitalized with covid in order to gain some amount of covid antibody protection is kind of like smashing your thumb with a hammer so that in case you shut your thumb in a door it’s already numb. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/192 "2022-01-26T01:15:01Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > With Omicron vaccination now fails the standard of not causing harm to others. Shouldn’t the vaccinated stay home as well? Again, this is false as already explained in this thread. But here’s yet another link showing that unvaccinated are being infected at 2.5 - 6X the rate of unvaccinated depending on age. For boosters the difference is double that. > **[COVID Data Tracker](https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status)** > > CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/193 "2022-01-26T02:57:55Z")
The numbers on the bottom of that page are from November, when the dominant strain was Delta. The difference by vaccination status in your risk of catching Omicron is much less, based on the studies I’ve seen. Eyeballing the graphs on that page for December, it looks like there’s still a reduction even for unboosted, (which is contrary to everything else I’ve read, but real population data trumps little studies) but the reduction looks more like 30-40% than like a factor of 2.5 (60% reduction) or 6 (83% reduction) you cite. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/194 "2022-01-26T03:11:48Z")
Yes, the graph includes most of December. The numbers I give in my post are from the end of that graph when omicron was dominant. You can tell when omicron takes over by the uptick in cases. Put the age filters on. The differences in unvaccinated vs vaccinated increase with increasing age. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/195 "2022-01-26T03:12:42Z")
Here are some cites for “vaccines don’t prevent omicron without a booster”. (Note that vaccines remain highly effective against serious illness or death, even against omicron. I’m only showing evidence they are much less effective against become symptomatic, testing positive, and being able to spread the disease.) > **[No Omicron immunity without booster, study finds — Harvard Gazette](https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/01/no-omicron-immunity-without-booster-study-finds/)** > > Traditional dosing regimens of COVID-19 vaccines available in the United States do not produce antibodies capable of recognizing and neutralizing the Omicron variant, reports a new study. > **[Pfizer and BioNTech Provide Update on Omicron Variant | Pfizer](https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-provide-update-omicron-variant)** > > Preliminary laboratory studies demonstrate that three doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine neutralize the Omicron variant (B.1.1.529 lineage) while two doses show significantly reduced neutralization titers Data indicate that a third dose of... > two doses of BNT162b2 may not be sufficient to protect against infection with the Omicron variant. However, as the vast majority of epitopes targeted by vaccine-induced T cells are not affected by the mutations in Omicron, the companies believe that vaccinated individuals may still be protected against severe forms of the disease and are closely monitoring real world effectiveness against Omicron, globally. > **[Booster Vaccination to Prevent COVID-19 in the Era of Omicron](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788487)** > > As the US enters the third year of the global coronavirus pandemic, vaccination remains the most effective tool against infections and symptomatic illness. Layered on other public health mitigation tools such as testing and masks, vaccination is... > The study results demonstrated that the likelihood of vaccination with 3 mRNA vaccine doses (vs unvaccinated) was significantly lower among both Omicron cases (adjusted odds ratio [OR], 0.33 [95% CI, 0.31-0.35]) and Delta cases (adjusted OR, 0.065 [95% CI, 0.059-0.071]) than among SARS-CoV-2–negative controls; a similar pattern was observed with 3 vs 2 doses of mRNA vaccines (Omicron adjusted OR, 0.34 [95% CI, 0.32-0.36]); Delta adjusted OR, 0.16 [95% CI, 0.14-0.17]). The relatively higher odds ratios for the association with Omicron infection suggested less protection (ie, corresponding with lower estimated vaccine effectiveness) for Omicron than for Delta > … > These ORs indicate limited to no effectiveness of the 2-dose schedule against the symptomatic Omicron infection by 4 to 6 months after the second dose > … > vaccines are indeed effective against severe outcomes, even with breakthrough cases of COVID-19 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/196 "2022-01-26T03:13:50Z")
> [@Tfletch1](#): > > Yes, the graph includes most of December. The numbers I give in my post are from the end of that graph when omicron was dominant. You can tell when omicron takes over by the uptick in cases. Put the age filters on. The differences in unvaccinated vs vaccinated increase with increasing age. We cross posted. I’m not sure i can play with filters on my phone, but I’ll take a look later. Thanks for the link. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/197 "2022-01-26T03:40:56Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > “… People who had previously been infected with [COVID-19](https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/how-omicron-highlights-fading-hope-herd-immunity-covid-2022-01-20/) were better protected against the Delta variant than those who were vaccinated alone, suggesting that natural immunity was a more potent shield than vaccines against that variant, California and New York health officials reported on Wednesday.” > > [https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/prior-covid-infection-more-protective-than-vaccination-during-delta-surge-us-2022-01-19/](https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/prior-covid-infection-more-protective-than-vaccination-during-delta-surge-us-2022-01-19/) That article went on to say: > The results do not apply to the Omicron variant of the virus, which now accounts for 99.5% of COVID-19 cases in the United States. > > “The evidence in this report does not change our vaccination recommendations,” Dr. Ben Silk of the CDC and one of the study’s authors told a media briefing. > > “We know that vaccination is still the safest way to protect yourself against COVID-19,” he said. When one includes _that_ part it sends a different message than what you implied it did in your post. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/198 "2022-01-26T04:45:18Z")
More effective at what? Pretty much everyone admits the vaccines do not stop getting infected or transmitting. They may help lessen severe illness. It seems immunity from contracting and beating the virus confers better and maybe complete immunity. Which probably also lessens transmission. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/199 "2022-01-26T04:48:37Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > confers better and maybe **complete** immunity. Bolding added Absolutely not. Google “reinfection”. It’s quite common for people who had a prior version of covid to catch omicron, in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/200 "2022-01-26T04:50:26Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > More effective at what? > Pretty much everyone admits the vaccines do not stop getting infected or transmitting. > They may help lessen severe illness. > It seems immunity from contracting and beating the virus confers better and maybe complete immunity. Which probably also lessens transmission. Is it too much to ask people to read the thread before repeating the same rebutted talking points? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258.md?page=11)