# Immunity after getting COVID should fulfill vaccine requirements **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [January 23, 2022, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258 "2022-01-23T03:25:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/221 "2022-01-26T15:32:29Z")
That article was written by a British Medical Journal employee. Why do you suppose the BMJ would allow such trashy gossip to be published on their site? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/222 "2022-01-26T15:33:28Z")
That isn’t the salient question in any rational discussion. The salient question is why you posted it, and numerous other cites, that not only **do not support** your position(s), but **directly and inarguably contradict** you. It gives one pause, no ? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/223 "2022-01-26T15:46:13Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > > [@Jackmannii](#): > > > > It tries to make a case that mask critics are being censored in Orwellian fashion on social media, which involves a certain amount of hyperbole.\* > > So why do you suppose they were having so much trouble getting it published? Did you miss that part? The claim that major journals refused to publish the research study is based largely (or entirely) on an article in GreenMedInfo, an alt med website known for promoting health misinformation. > **[Health websites are notoriously misleading. So we rated their reliability](https://www.statnews.com/2019/07/26/health-websites-are-notoriously-misleading-so-we-rated-their-reliability/)** > > Websites peddling political conspiracies generate considerable attention. Data from NewsGuard indicate that websites promoting health misinformation are at least as alarming. Seeing that a major journal (Annals of Internal Medicine) _did_ accept the study for publication, there was a major breakdown in the conspiracy. 🤔 As to why journals might be cautious about publishing studies with significant pandemic implications, consider that an uncomfortably large number (over 200 at this point) that made it into print were subsequently retracted for reasons including methodological faults and outright fraud. > **[Retracted coronavirus (COVID-19) papers](https://retractionwatch.com/retracted-coronavirus-covid-19-papers/)** > > via CDC We’ve been tracking retractions of papers about COVID-19 as part of our database. Here’s a running list, which will be updated as needed. (For some context on these figures, see… The Danish mask study has been massively exploited and mischaracterized by the anti-mask crowd. > **[Danish Study Doesn’t Prove Masks Don’t Work Against the Coronavirus -...](https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/danish-study-doesnt-prove-masks-dont-work-against-the-coronavirus/)** > > Q: Did a recent study in Denmark show that face masks are useless for COVID-19? A: No. The study found that face masks did not have a large protective effect for wearers — not that masks provide no protection at all or don’t offer benefits to... ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/224 "2022-01-26T15:47:56Z")
So you agree that the article is well grounded and accurate? Do we both agree on that? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/225 "2022-01-26T15:50:20Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > known for promoting health misinformation We seem to be heading down that path here, frustratingly. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > The Danish mask study has been massively exploited and mischaracterized by the anti-mask crowd. Yup. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/226 "2022-01-26T15:53:48Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > one of the problems with letting previous COVID infection exempt someone from vaccine requirements is that it gives anti-vaxxers another excuse not to get vaccinated, and to spread misinformation to discourage others from getting vaccinated. This. It’s what I’m seeing from Antivax nutters in another board I’m on. And I am quite sure that many (all?) of them did not actually get covid. They just want to SAY they got it in order to have the excuse to avoid getting vaccinated. It’s an excuse. So irregardless of the science, as it has been said here, this is also a _policy_ decision. And it is BAD POLICY to go down this route, at least at the present time. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/227 "2022-01-26T15:56:27Z")
I understand _that_ you’d like to avoid discussing the issue I raised (ie, that you continue to cite sources that directly and inarguably contradict you). I even understand _why_ you would want to do this. But I guess I’m just not ready 😉 ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/228 "2022-01-26T16:11:32Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > But I guess I’m just not ready 😉 I understand. Let me know when you are ready. I’ll be sure to include trigger warnings for anything that might be considered a microagression. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/229 "2022-01-26T16:11:52Z")
The bottom line is that previous infection plus vaccination gives greater protection than previous infection. Our goal is to get everyone as protected as possible, not to get everyone to the same level. When I was younger, most cars didn’t have airbags. When airbags became standard, I didn’t stop wearing my seat belt. Because air bags plus a seat belt give better protection than air bags alone. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/230 "2022-01-26T20:20:27Z")
Moderating: > [@agzem](#): > > I understand. Let me know when you are ready. I’ll be sure to include trigger warnings for anything that might be considered a microagression. Let’s keep the personal digs out of the discussion. Thanks. Not a warning. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/231 "2022-01-27T00:36:53Z")
[https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-vaccines-cant-prevent-transmission-anymore/ar-AASDndg](https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-vaccines-cant-prevent-transmission-anymore/ar-AASDndg) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/232 "2022-01-27T00:59:34Z")
You forgot the other part of your post, claiming that natural immunity is better. It’s not: > **[Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses |...](https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/omicron-largely-evades-immunity-from-past/)** > > The Omicron variant largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses according to the latest Imperial modelling. However, if you get your booster (from that same article): > Depending on the estimates used for vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection from the Delta variant, this translates into vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic Omicron infection of between 0% and 20% after two doses, and between 55% and 80% after a booster dose. So, I assume you’ll be returning with an apology and going out to get a vaccine. Whatever you plan on doing, I don’t think I’m going to engage with anti-vaxxers on this site anymore, so feel free to have the last word. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/233 "2022-01-27T02:03:10Z")
At no point did I say not to get a vaccine. I am vaccinated Covid and also more vaccines than most folks, due to international travel. I have in other thread posts noted that vaccines are in the top 3 greatest medical advances. Glad to have got the ones when I traveled and the childhood ones. I noted in this thread and others that Covid vaccines may lessen severity. I think that is due to them specifically targeting the spike protein. But that particular targeting is also a weakness in general immunity to infection and replication. I actually held out getting vaccinated, not because I am anti vax. But waiting for a particular one to be available. It still is not available here. So I finally looked at the science and chose the one that held the most efficacy over time. Moderna. Your reply is full of suppositions about me. That are nowhere stated. Or likely to be supposed. Also. Israel is on their 4th booster. Still poor results. And they have excellent data. If they could target some portion in the Covid virus that worked better to stifle transmission and symptoms then an mRNA vaccine could be fantastic. This technology is fanatastic. I think it may go on to accomplish great things. But this very particular instance is not a best fit for it as it is being targeted. I wish that the fast tracking and emergency use system was being applied more to adenovirus vaccines more widely at this instance. Though not in general going forward. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/234 "2022-01-27T02:23:00Z")
Oh jeeze, I’m so sorry, **puzzlegal**. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/235 "2022-01-27T02:30:04Z")
And in regards to the actual original post intent. Acquired immunity being accepted as good as vaccinated. This depends on what variant one acquired immunity to. How well that particular immunity is to other variants. What variant is currently active in a region you are in. The spike protein seems a common denominator in all variants so far. Though Omicron may have mutated that aspect enough to skate by mRNA vaccines quite well. And may also be eluding acquired immunity of previous variants. But Omicron so far seems a very mild infection. Maybe due to that spike protein mutation. Getting over it will likely give immunity to it. Whether vaxxed or not. Not clear what other variants that immunity will include immunity to. But in general. Acquired immunity occurs as a result of the immune system seeing and attacking the virus as a whole entity. It likely produces more varied and or complex antibodies in an attack against a complex foe. The mRNA vaccines specifically create a foe that is the spike protein. A smaller, simpler part of a complex virus structure. Your immune system need only create a specific simple antibody to that foe. Those antibodies do attack that nasty spike protein and may lessen the terrible effects it causes. But may let the greater virus structure multiply and infect. On the whole, I think natural immunity against a specific variant will be stronger than the mRNA effect against it. Maybe, depending on the variant you acquired immunity from, it will be robust against many variants. While the mRNA vaccines will be effective against the spike protein and its very bad effects in many variants. But not as robust against transmission. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/236 "2022-01-27T02:40:12Z")
[Study shows two-thirds of Omicron cases in England reinfections](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/26/more-than-two-thirds-of-omicron-cases-are-reinfections-study-suggests.html) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/237 "2022-01-27T03:08:28Z")
I think Walensky misspoke (and not for the first time). Covid vaccination _does_ lower the risk of transmission. > **[Vaccine breakthrough COVID-19 infections found to be less likely transmitted](https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220107/Vaccine-breakthrough-COVID-19-infections-found-to-be-less-likely-transmitted.aspx)** > > A new study displays that vaccine breakthrough COVID-19 infections are far less likely to transmit from the index patient to contacts than infections in partially or unvaccinated individuals. Lowered transmission of Omicron has been reported in vaccinated people as compared to the unvaccinated. “To summarize, the study findings demonstrate that unvaccinated persons were more susceptible to infection by the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant, whereas booster-vaccinated individuals were less susceptible as compared to fully vaccinated individuals in Delta VOC-infected households. Furthermore, a lower susceptibility for booster-vaccinated individuals was detected among those living in families infected with the Omicron VOC. In addition, there was enhanced transmissibility from unvaccinated individuals and decreased transmissibility from booster-vaccinated individuals.” ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/238 "2022-01-27T04:00:11Z")
As usual it is so difficult to interpret the report. And that includes all for and against whatever one might want to present. At least in my limited expertise. The conclusion says in part, “vaccine breakthrough infections are far less likely to transmit from the index patient to contacts than infections in partially or unvaccinated individuals. However, the reductions in transmission are less effective against the Delta variant compared to the Alpha variant.” But unless I am reading things incorrectly, in the meat of the article, it seems less apparent for this conclusion. “Independent of the vaccination status of contacts, for each doubling of the weeks past the initial two weeks post-second vaccination in index patients, the percentage of contacts testing positive increased by a factor of 1.08 in ChAdOx1 index patients and 1.13 in BNT162b2 vaccinated index patients.” Independent of the vaccine status. I may be interpreting this incorrectly. But it seems a small difference. And I must of course add. The vaccines do seem to lessen the adverse effects. I am vaccinated. I think most vaccines are great. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/239 "2022-01-27T10:49:04Z")
What interests me is whether an infection can be a substitute for a vaccination and as others have said, it already is in many many countries without the degree of concern and scepticism shown in this thread. But then I wonder if people are all considering the question in quite the same way. Does infection confer a degree of immunity against catching the disease and suffering a severe case? Yes, there is no doubt. Can a single infection on its own offer as good a protection as a single dose of vaccine? opinions vary. Should a single case of infection be considered as a substitute for a full vaccination regime plus booster(s)? probably not, the balance of evidence suggests it isn’t providing equivalent protection. Should a single case of infection be considered as a substitute to a single vaccination _as part of a full course_? possibly. Certainly that is the way it is managed in many European countries. If we are at all concerned that such a policy encourages people to get the disease on purpose or to avoid a full protective course or boosters in the future then the data may well be available to help us see if that is the case. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258/240 "2022-01-27T15:18:15Z")
In case someone thinks I’ve been unfair to CDC Director Rochelle Walensky, it’s been noted elsewhere that her “messaging” skills are underwhelming, to the point that she felt it necessary to get the guidance of a media consultant. > **[Analysis | Rochelle Walensky is not good at this](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/10/rochelle-walensky-is-not-good-this/)** > > Shortly after it was revealed that Walensky had been undergoing media training, she inadvertently seeded the conspiracy theory that a significant number of covid deaths are not actually caused by the virus. People in important positions like CDC Director have to be at the top of their game when it comes to public statements, otherwise deniers and cranks will jump all over vagueness and missteps. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/immunity-after-getting-covid-should-fulfill-vaccine-requirements/958258.md?page=13)